Road Safety Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage fourth day. Clauses 29, 31-48 agreed to. Clause 30 agreed to as amended. Schedules 4 and 5 agreed to as amended. New clauses considered.
Road Safety Bill [HL]
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
and
Debate on bills on Wednesday, 26 October 2005,
in the House of Lords.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
674 c1170-203, 1215-48, 1263-96
Session
2005-06
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Road Safety Bill (HL) 2005-06. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 5-EN also published.
Tuesday, 24 May 2005
Bills
House of Lords
Tuesday, 24 May 2005
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Earl Attlee | 674 c1192-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 130:"Before Clause 33, insert the following new clause—"
““CESSATION OF PAR...
Lord Berkeley | 674 c1190 (Link to this contribution)
I do not like to throw a spanner in the works but the open access railway directives 2001/1213 and 1...
Show all contributions (235)
Lord Bradshaw | 674 c1190 (Link to this contribution)
I will withdraw the amendment but I do not think that the answer was totally satisfactory. First, I ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1190 (Link to this contribution)
I cannot talk in terms of immediate months but I assure the noble Lord that we shall implement the d...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1190-1 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 129:"After Clause 32, insert the following new clause—"
““LICENSING OF DRIV...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1191-2 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Earl for the precise way in which he tabled the amendment. We are not abo...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1188 (Link to this contribution)
I too support the amendment. It is important to remember that by 21 most school leavers will have al...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1189-90 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to noble Lords for contributing to the debate, especially to the noble Lord, Lord Brad...
Lord Snape | 674 c1187-8 (Link to this contribution)
I rise on this occasion to support the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw. As your Lordships who served in th...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1176-80 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 122A:"Before Schedule 4, insert the following new schedule—"
““NEW SCHEDULE 2A ...
Lord Hanningfield | 674 c1176 (Link to this contribution)
There is little disagreement between us on this. We got the answer from the Minister that we wanted,...
Lord Berkeley | 674 c1180-1 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Earl, Lord Attlee, says that the police have excellent driving schools. All I can say is t...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1180 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 122B:"Page 82, line 35, at end insert—"
““(3) The regulations shall make spe...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1182 (Link to this contribution)
I understand why the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, made his contribution. My amendment referred to scho...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1181-2 (Link to this contribution)
It is my misfortune to have to navigate between the Scylla of the position of the noble Earl, Lord A...
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1182-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 123:"Page 91, line 44, after ““training”” insert ““or giving instruction as part...
Lord Ampthill | 674 c1182 (Link to this contribution)
Having called Amendment No. 128, I apologise for my slip and now call Amendment No. 123.
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1183 (Link to this contribution)
I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, on her forensic look at this matter. On the face of ...
Baroness Hanham | 674 c1183 (Link to this contribution)
I have no objections to the amendments that have been moved. But I am unable to find anywhere else t...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1184 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 127:"After Clause 32, insert the following new clause—"
““GENERAL PROVISION...
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1183-4 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 124 to 126:"Page 92, line 2, at end insert ““or giving instruction as part of ...
Viscount Simon | 674 c1185-6 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may be even more reactionary than my noble friend. If continental drivers have problems ad...
Lord Hanningfield | 674 c1185 (Link to this contribution)
As most Members of this House will know, this is not official Conservative policy. Therefore, we on ...
Lord Snape | 674 c1185 (Link to this contribution)
I apologise for striking a discordant note in your Lordships’ House. Some of us are quite proud of t...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 674 c1185 (Link to this contribution)
I notice from the national cycle route which goes past my house—National Cycle Route 76—that the Nat...
Lord Bradshaw | 674 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 128:"After Clause 32, insert the following new clause—"
““YOUNG DRIVERS’ SC...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1186-7 (Link to this contribution)
I was not the least bit surprised by the Minister’s confidence when he rose to the Dispatch Box to r...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1186 (Link to this contribution)
This issue has been debated for the past 30 years. I thought for a moment that we were in danger of ...
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1174 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 122:"Page 38, line 1, leave out from ““section”” to end of line 5 and insert ““1...
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1173-4 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, for answering the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, ...
Lord Mawhinney | 674 c1173 (Link to this contribution)
I would be grateful if the Minister would explain how informed consumers are supposed to be informed...
Lord Hanningfield | 674 c1174-5 (Link to this contribution)
Our opposition to Clause 31 is relevant to our recent discussion. The explanatory note on Clause 32,...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1175 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord is challenging a different philosophy with regard to guarantees to the public. Heavy ...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1175-6 (Link to this contribution)
It is important to remember that a candidate for an HGV test can waste an awful lot of time using a ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1176 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that point. I notice that the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, is enjoying that rema...
Lord Hanningfield | 674 c1171-2 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that answer. Perhaps he could comment further. The issue we are worried abo...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1171 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield. He will recognise that the DVLA...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1172 (Link to this contribution)
I do not have a great deal to add on the principles behind the charging, but I assure the noble Lord...
Lord Hanningfield | 674 c1172 (Link to this contribution)
Disabled people and the elderly often change addresses rather more than some other people, so there ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1172 (Link to this contribution)
The charge is for the renewal of the licence. There will be no fee for notifying change of address.
Lord Hanningfield | 674 c1172 (Link to this contribution)
We must look further at the Minister’s response. With that, I shall not pursue this course today.
C...
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1172-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 121:"Page 37, line 40, leave out from beginning to ““courses”” in line 43 and in...
Baroness Hanham | 674 c1173 (Link to this contribution)
I want to ask the Minister a question; the Committee must forgive me if I ought to know the answer. ...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1173 (Link to this contribution)
I can help my noble friend. To be able to give paid instruction, you have to be registered with the ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1170 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.
Mov...
Lord Higgins | 674 c1231 (Link to this contribution)
Of course it is a matter for local authorities to make a judgment on the appropriate height. But the...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1230-1 (Link to this contribution)
I hear what the noble Lord says. However, his amendment ties me down to the distinct uniformity of o...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1231 (Link to this contribution)
It is a constructive and interesting point which we shall take on board.
Baroness Hanham | 674 c1230 (Link to this contribution)
I had intended to speak in support of my noble friend’s amendment. However, he seems to be doing ver...
Lord Higgins | 674 c1230 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may immediately make a comment on the noble Lord’s three points. First, the curved shape t...
Lord Higgins | 674 c1230 (Link to this contribution)
There is lack of uniformity in the height of pedestrian islands or dividing islands even within a fe...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1230 (Link to this contribution)
I congratulate the noble Lord on introducing a subject that we have not met in recent Bills. I had t...
Lord Higgins | 674 c1227-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 136:"After Clause 38, insert the following new clause—"
““RESTRICTIONS ON T...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 674 c1229 (Link to this contribution)
I should like to intervene in a friendly manner on the amendment. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord H...
Lord Berkeley | 674 c1229-30 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps we should have centimetres in Scotland and millimetres in England. That would sort the matte...
Baroness Hanham | 674 c1227 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister must be the only person in the country who thinks that not everybody who is fined after...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1226-7 (Link to this contribution)
In this debate there is a danger of reiterating some of the issues that we discussed a short while a...
Lord Bradshaw | 674 c1226 (Link to this contribution)
I support this amendment because, like the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, I am a member of a local aut...
Earl of Dundee | 674 c1226 (Link to this contribution)
As my noble friend Lady Hanham has just pointed out, the speed camera income received in fines goes ...
Baroness Hanham | 674 c1225-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 134:"After Clause 38, insert the following new clause—"
““APPLICATION OF SU...
Baroness Hanham | 674 c1225 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that reply, which was a bit like a curate’s egg: half good and half bad. I ...
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1224-5 (Link to this contribution)
Caution is the name of the game for the Government in response to the noble Baroness’s amendment. We...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 674 c1224 (Link to this contribution)
I believe that the Bill does apply in Scotland. The Road Traffic Act is reserved.
Lord Berkeley | 674 c1224 (Link to this contribution)
There may be occasions when this is a good idea. One has to think of the relationship between the tr...
Lord Bradshaw | 674 c1221 (Link to this contribution)
I do not want to delay proceedings further, but we are looking for something solid. Will the Ministe...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1220-1 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord, Lord Colwyn, has an interesting point. He will recognise that we have variable warni...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1221 (Link to this contribution)
I do not know whether it is anomalous or simply a reflection of the fact that we are all on a learni...
Baroness Hanham | 674 c1222-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 133:"After Clause 38, insert the following new clause—"
““MOTORCYCLES IN BU...
Lord Hanningfield | 674 c1221-2 (Link to this contribution)
For once, the Minister and I agreed more than everyone else did, which is interesting. I appreciate ...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 674 c1223 (Link to this contribution)
The suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Higgins, would not work in the city of Edinburgh, because the...
Lord Higgins | 674 c1223 (Link to this contribution)
I rise to support my noble friend’s amendment, but suggest that it is too modest. There is a strong ...
Lord Brougham and Vaux | 674 c1224 (Link to this contribution)
The Bill does not apply to Scotland.
Lord Harris of Haringey | 674 c1216-7 (Link to this contribution)
I concur with my noble friends on this point. I understand that the Transport Research Laboratory ha...
Viscount Simon | 674 c1216 (Link to this contribution)
I agree totally with my noble friend, and there is one further thing that I would like to say. It is...
Lord Berkeley | 674 c1216 (Link to this contribution)
As the Committee will know, I believe that people should keep within the law when it comes to speed ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1219-20 (Link to this contribution)
We have got criteria, so we know the basis on which cameras should be installed. My noble friend wil...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 674 c1219 (Link to this contribution)
My noble friend has, of course, a silken tongue. He is flattering to all of your Lordships who have ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1217-9 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate, perhaps most of all to my noble...
Lord Hunt of Chesterton | 674 c1217 (Link to this contribution)
I support my colleagues, but in the spirit of the way in which we work in this Chamber I should say ...
Lord Berkeley | 674 c1220 (Link to this contribution)
Before the Minister answers the question posed by my noble friend Lord Harris, I point out that he s...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 674 c1220 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my noble friend and do not wish to prolong the discussion much further. My understa...
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1203 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, I will.
Clause 38 agreed to.
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1203 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move that the House do now resume.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
...
Lord Hanningfield | 674 c1215-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 132:"After Clause 38, insert the following new clause—"
““AMENDMENT OF TRAF...
Lord Berkeley | 674 c1202-3 (Link to this contribution)
It is terribly exciting that Sweden, Lithuania and Poland have a reciprocal arrangement. However, if...
Lord Bradshaw | 674 c1203 (Link to this contribution)
As an addenda to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, why is it not possible—there being...
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1203 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may write to both Members of the Committee on those points.
Lord Hanningfield | 674 c1203 (Link to this contribution)
I, too, need some clarity. We all want to stop vehicle crime and will do what we can to stop it wher...
Lord Hanningfield | 674 c1200-1 (Link to this contribution)
Clause 38 provides statutory authority to the DVLA in Great Britain and Driver and the Vehicle Licen...
Lord Berkeley | 674 c1201 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord raises an interesting point. There have been recent press reports about the number of...
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1199-200 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Attlee. I assure him that the Government share his concern tha...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1200 (Link to this contribution)
I listened carefully to the Minister’s response. I am sorry to say that she did not produce a single...
Lord Brougham and Vaux | 674 c1198 (Link to this contribution)
had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 130A:"After Clause 34, insert the following ...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1198-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 131:"After Clause 37, insert the following new clause—"
““CONDITIONS ATTACH...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1198 (Link to this contribution)
No, it does not proscribe that. One of the additional components of an approved number plate can be ...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1198 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, made an important point. It is very important that the Minister tells...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1197 (Link to this contribution)
My department is not responsible for keeping a register of prosecutions, so that may be a difficult ...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 674 c1197-8 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister mentioned that the Bill extends the standardisation regulations to Scotland and to Nort...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1197 (Link to this contribution)
We are aware of the strength of arguments being put. I will in due course give further reassurances ...
Lord Berkeley | 674 c1197 (Link to this contribution)
Will my noble friend write to Members who have contributed to the debate to say how many successful ...
Viscount Simon | 674 c1195 (Link to this contribution)
One thing that could be expanded upon at some stage is that there are sometimes places at markets wh...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1195 (Link to this contribution)
The Committee will be surprised to hear that I support my noble friend Lord Brougham and Vaux if, an...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1195-7 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate.
I recognise that, in his amendment...
Lord Brougham and Vaux | 674 c1197 (Link to this contribution)
We debated a similar amendment in May 2001 on the Vehicles (Crime) Act. I was assured then that numb...
Lord Bradshaw | 674 c1197 (Link to this contribution)
I ask the Minister to reply to the point about the DVLA keeping an up-to-date register, because the ...
Lord Brougham and Vaux | 674 c1193-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Amendment No. 130A, which is grouped with my noble friend’s amendment, seems to be coming from a ...
Lord Bradshaw | 674 c1194-5 (Link to this contribution)
I support what the noble Lord, Lord Brougham and Vaux, has said. I am aware that all number plate su...
Lord Hanningfield | 674 c1195 (Link to this contribution)
I also support my noble friend Lord Brougham and Vaux. My name has been added to this amendment.
Earl Attlee | 674 c1290-1 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for the customary way the noble Lord, Lord Tanlaw, has introduced this amendment. On t...
Lord Montagu of Beaulieu | 674 c1291 (Link to this contribution)
I am an enthusiastic supporter of the amendment. I have been in Parliament now for 50 years, and thi...
Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 674 c1291 (Link to this contribution)
I rise very briefly. As the noble Lord, Lord Tanlaw, has said, RoSPA supports this amendment, and wo...
Lord Berkeley | 674 c1291 (Link to this contribution)
I very much support the amendment. I have been a great believer in this for years. The noble Barones...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1291-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Tanlaw, for the way in which he introduced the debate and for ...
Earl Attlee | 674 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister has been extremely helpful in accepting the road safety argument, but he has not actual...
Lord Tanlaw | 674 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for his response and, indeed, acceptance of the fact that the amendment is conn...
Lord Bradshaw | 674 c1294-5 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 169:"After Clause 43, insert the following new clause—"
““PROOF NECESSARY T...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 674 c1295 (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful to the noble Lord for the way in which he moved the amendment. I should be only t...
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1294 (Link to this contribution)
I believe that my noble friend is right.
Viscount Simon | 674 c1294 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my noble friend for her reply. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, ...
Lord Bradshaw | 674 c1295 (Link to this contribution)
I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendments Nos. 169A to 16...
Baroness Crawley | 674 c1295-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 172:"Page 98, line 3, at end insert—"