Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Tuesday, 5 February 2008, in the House of Lords.

Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill. Lords Committee stage first day. Clauses 50 to 97 negatived. Schedules 9 to 17 negatived. Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to. Schedule 1 agreed to as amended. Schedule 2 under consideration.

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

698 c953-1012; 698 c1025-45

Session

2007-08

Department

Ministry of Justice

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill. Brought from the Commons. In two volumes. (Explanatory Note HL Bill 16-EN published).
Wednesday, 9 January 2008
Bills
House of Lords

Deposited Paper DEP2008-0657
Wednesday, 5 March 2008
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Earl of Onslow | 698 c974 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister find out—because I am sure that he will not have the answer now—the difference in ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c974 (Link to this contribution) I do not have that information, and I would always caution noble Lords against too simplistic compar...

Show all contributions (184)

Earl of Onslow | 698 c974 (Link to this contribution) I accept that one is not comparing complete like with complete like, but I do not think that one is ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c974-5 (Link to this contribution) I accept the noble Earl's point. It is difficult to make direct comparisons, but I will see what we ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c975-6 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has a remarkable memory, as I am discovering. His contributions are always apt. But I...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 698 c975 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister. I am sure he will accept that, some 25 years ago—it may be longe...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c976-8 (Link to this contribution) I do not think so because other legislation relates to that point. I have already referred to the Ch...

Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 698 c976 (Link to this contribution) How does what the Minister just said about the welfare of the child remaining the paramount consider...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c978-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 2: 2: Clause 1, page 2, line 17, at end insert— ““( ) a reparation requirement...

Baroness Stern | 698 c978 (Link to this contribution) I thank all those who have contributed to the debate for their kind remarks, and the Minister for hi...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c986 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister, and rather intrigued by his last remark that the scheme will not fail...

Lord Bach | 698 c986 (Link to this contribution) Of course I will answer the noble Lord. I admire very much his pressing me so politely. I think the ...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c986 (Link to this contribution) Taking a child away from its family is a very serious matter. Everybody here is aware that this is—p...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c986-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5: 5: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause— ““Custody of children: ...

Lord Bach | 698 c984-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords and in particular the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, for raising this issue. It giv...

Baroness Stern | 698 c988 (Link to this contribution) I, too, am a member of the Joint Committee on Human Rights and, as will be clear, I am in very good ...

Lord Judd | 698 c987-8 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to support the noble Earl in his amendment. I thought that he moved it in a character...

Baroness Stern | 698 c988-9 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, she was a good girl. She had been a social worker and a children’s officer, and she used her...

Lord Graham of Edmonton | 698 c988 (Link to this contribution) Lucy. She was a good girl.

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 698 c981-2 (Link to this contribution) I asked that question because there is a basic weakness in the whole concept of the orders in the Bi...

Lord Bach | 698 c982 (Link to this contribution) I will come back to the noble Baroness. I am glad she made her intervention. She asked about reparat...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 698 c981 (Link to this contribution) From the way in which the Minister has spoken, it sounds as though the reparation order can be made ...

Lord Bach | 698 c981 (Link to this contribution) No. I am sorry if I gave that impression. Of course not; a reparation order is a part of the sentenc...

Lord Bach | 698 c980-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, for outlining his amendments so clearly. I shall de...

Lord Ramsbotham | 698 c984 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment and give notice of something that is already happening in this area, organis...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c983 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 4: 4: Clause 1, page 2, line 28, leave out ““or (b)”” The noble Lord said: Th...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c983 (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 3: 3: Clause 1, page 2, line 17, at end in...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c982 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply. He suggested that one of the influences on the Government in tak...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c982 (Link to this contribution) I have great sympathy with the amendment. I read from around the House that there is a lot of suppor...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c994-5 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, said, custody is expensive and damaging, and in any case, it is l...

Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 698 c994 (Link to this contribution) In anticipating what the Minister might say in response to Amendment No. 6, I thought that I would g...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c995 (Link to this contribution) It may well. I simply put the question; I did not know what was the answer. The noble Earl appears t...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c995 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely take the point, but I refer to new paragraph (b), which states: "““the offence, or the ...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c995 (Link to this contribution) So we can be reassured that the amendments are not contaminated by the matter that I raised. I emph...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c995 (Link to this contribution) I just thought that I might add to the list. I gabbled it rather, because I am very bad at reading o...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c996 (Link to this contribution) With not nearly as much horror as it struck me, I can promise the noble Lord.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c996 (Link to this contribution) This has been a very interesting and serious debate. I must say that the prospect of the noble Earl,...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c996-8 (Link to this contribution) But it does remind me that he is also a radical reformer of your Lordships' House, as I well remembe...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c990-1 (Link to this contribution) I wholeheartedly support Amendment No. 5 and agree with the points just raised by the noble Lord, Lo...

Lord Judd | 698 c989-90 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Baroness agree that her last remarks endorse the observations that were made to me by...

Lord Ramsbotham | 698 c992-3 (Link to this contribution) In the spirit of what many noble Lords have said, I have just three observations to make in adding m...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 698 c992 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has just made an important contribution. She knows a lot about these things and h...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c991-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Earl for that. Up the road in Scotland, where, as I have said time and again, all...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c991 (Link to this contribution) May I briefly interrupt the noble Baroness? I sincerely hope that she goes on quoting these figures ...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 698 c994 (Link to this contribution) Having listened to the debate, I add my wholehearted support. The noble Baroness, Lady Linklater of ...

Bishop of Chelmsford | 698 c993 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support those remarks and to make three brief points. First, there is a danger in our deba...

Earl of Listowel | 698 c993-4 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for being absent, but I was attending a reception at No. 11 Downing Street for the Natio...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c1001 (Link to this contribution) had given notice of her intention to move Amendment No. 6: 6: After Clause 1, insert the following...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1000-1 (Link to this contribution) We have gone on for more than an hour and I thank all noble Lords who have spoken. In the debate on ...

Lord Bach | 698 c1002-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 7: 7: Schedule 1, page 150, line 10, leave out ““or an officer of a local prob...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c1002 (Link to this contribution) In that case, I thank the Minister and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, ...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1003 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 12: 12: Schedule 1, page 155, line 37, leave out from ““not”” to ““a”” in line...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1003 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 8 to 11: 8: Schedule 1, page 151, line 2, leave out ““or an officer of a loc...

Lord Brabazon of Tara | 698 c1001 (Link to this contribution) If there is to be a debate on the amendment, it must be moved.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1001 (Link to this contribution) I do not think I am allowed to reply.

Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 698 c1000 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister loses his train of thought on Amendment No. 6, I should like clarification on so...

Lord Ramsbotham | 698 c1000 (Link to this contribution) Once in a young offender establishment, an elderly senior officer admitted to me that until a speech...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1000 (Link to this contribution) Clearly we are not satisfied with the outcomes of custody for many young people. Alongside the state...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 698 c999 (Link to this contribution) When the Minister talked about my remarks about the Government giving a lead, he seemed to think tha...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c999 (Link to this contribution) I cannot answer that because it is not for me to dictate to the guidelines council. It will have to ...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 698 c999 (Link to this contribution) I express my joy and gratitude at what the Minister has said concerning the intention that there sho...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c999 (Link to this contribution) I wish I had never used ““uptariffing”” and I will now never be forgiven or forgotten for it. I did...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1000 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that the amendment applies to detention and training orders. They can still be g...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1011 (Link to this contribution) The current system seems to work rather well and I would be reluctant to change it. I accept that in...

Earl of Listowel | 698 c1011 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister write to me on the point of what information is provided to child defendants in co...

Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 698 c1010 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has not addressed one facet of the amendment. He has told us of the issues that have to...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 698 c1010 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give careful consideration to the narrow point that I made about contracting out/c...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1011 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the noble Earl for not responding to him. My understanding is that where a young pers...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 698 c1011 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has not really answered the point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, abou...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1010 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said the total legal aid budget is £2 billion. I am sure that is right. How much did th...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1010 (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl asks how much the 95,000 applications cost. I do not have the full figures with me—I ...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1009 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely I damn the noble Lord if he does or he does not. A figure of 1 per cent when allied to wh...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1009-10 (Link to this contribution) That is a bit harsh, and to be frank if he were to do so, it would be a very good dinner indeed. So ...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c1005-6 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment, and shall speak to my Amendments Nos. 13 to 16, which are grouped wit...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 698 c1006 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment, with all the fervour that I can command. The case proves itself over ...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 698 c1006-7 (Link to this contribution) For the reasons given by noble Lords in this discussion, I strongly support the amendment. I would l...

Lord Clinton-Davis | 698 c1007 (Link to this contribution) I did not intend to participate in this debate, but I found the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Elys...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c1007-8 (Link to this contribution) Since 2 October 2006, defendants appearing before magistrates’ courts and youth courts have been req...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1008 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting debate. The amendments seek to ensure that all children and young perso...

Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 698 c1003-4 (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment. I do not see how it can be said that we are treating custody as a last res...

Baroness Stern | 698 c1004-5 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, for introducing this amendment. I apologise for m...

Lord Ramsbotham | 698 c1005 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendments very strongly, and draw attention again to two aspects. In our discus...

Lord Ramsbotham | 698 c1026-7 (Link to this contribution) I support the very important amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, which fleshes out something ...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1012 (Link to this contribution) I am almost speechless—and, as your Lordships know, I have been known to chatter a bit. We are talki...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1012 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 18: 18: Schedule 1, page 158, line 28, leave out from ““team”” to ““, and”” in...

Lord Bach | 698 c1012 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House be resumed. In doing so, I suggest that the Committee should not begin ...

Lord Avebury | 698 c1025-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 19: 19: Schedule 1, page 159, line 26, after ““specified”” insert ““and design...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 698 c1012 (Link to this contribution) The word ““petty”” is being used to my left.

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1012 (Link to this contribution) Pathetic.

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 698 c1012 (Link to this contribution) All right, ““pathetic””. I will say that then. The savings are tiny compared with the time, the ener...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1012 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the noble Lord says. I thought I had answered the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew. I...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1011 (Link to this contribution) Pathetic.

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c960 (Link to this contribution) The Minister could do no better than look north of the border to Scotland, where there is a perfectl...

Lord Henley | 698 c960 (Link to this contribution) I fully accept that and I fully accept that the noble Lord is in what he describes as sackcloth and ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c960 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will have his fun. I have explained why we are seeking the Committee’s approval for w...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c960 (Link to this contribution) I said that I wanted to duck giving a precise answer because we have not reached a conclusion. There...

Lord Hylton | 698 c966 (Link to this contribution) When the Minister comes to reply, will he take the opportunity to state the Government’s intentions ...

Lord Judd | 698 c963-5 (Link to this contribution) I rise warmly to support this amendment. In doing so, I hope that the Committee will forgive me if I...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 698 c965-6 (Link to this contribution) I, too, totally support the amendment and the powerful way in which it was moved by the noble Barone...

Baroness Stern | 698 c960-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1: 1: Before Clause 1, insert the following new Clause— ““PART A1 Principles P...

Bishop of Chelmsford | 698 c963 (Link to this contribution) If no one else is going to speak, may I say how sympathetic I am to what the noble Baroness has said...

Bishop of Chelmsford | 698 c957 (Link to this contribution) I remind the House that Ash Wednesday is tomorrow if noble Lords wish to pursue the general confessi...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c957-8 (Link to this contribution) I think that all your Lordships are agreed that a statutory basis for this post is crucial; but it h...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c958 (Link to this contribution) I thank Members of the Committee and reiterate that I will take very careful account of them in taki...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c958-9 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the Minister. There is one thing that I did not say. It is refreshing when M...

Lord Henley | 698 c960 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister is going to duck that, why on earth did the Government introduce the Northern Irelan...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c959 (Link to this contribution) There is always a ““but””. But since it is very rare for the noble Earl to commend the Government, I...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 698 c959 (Link to this contribution) Has the Minister taken on board—I am sure that he has—the overriding importance of ensuring the inde...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c959 (Link to this contribution) That is not in doubt; the question is how that would be best expressed in statute and operations. We...

Lord Trimble | 698 c959-60 (Link to this contribution) Further to the point about the independence of the ombudsman/commissioner, it follows from what the ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c953 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Moved acc...

Baroness Stern | 698 c955-6 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the proposal to remove these clauses from the Bill in the circumstances, but I agree that ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c953-4 (Link to this contribution) I wish to oppose the Question whether Clause 50 shall stand part of the Bill. This first grouping wo...

Lord Ramsbotham | 698 c954-5 (Link to this contribution) Half of me supports the proposal that these clauses should not stand part and half of me is opposed....

Earl of Onslow | 698 c957 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps despair is the right word.

Lord Henley | 698 c957 (Link to this contribution) I shall assist my noble friend, if I may, by assuring him that it is even more complicated than that...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c973 (Link to this contribution) Surely the solution to my noble friend’s problem is for him and the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, to g...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c972-3 (Link to this contribution) I rise to respond to the amendment so brilliantly introduced, as the noble Baroness, Lady Howe of Id...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c973-4 (Link to this contribution) This has been a very interesting debate. I shall not intrude on the conversation between the noble L...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c968 (Link to this contribution) I shall refer to this excellent brief from the Standing Committee for Youth Justice, which shows tha...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c966-8 (Link to this contribution) I gladly added my name to the amendment alongside those of the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, and the n...

Lord Ramsbotham | 698 c969-70 (Link to this contribution) It is always a privilege and an education to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Stern—as the noble Lord...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 698 c968-9 (Link to this contribution) I wholeheartedly support this amendment. It has been moved brilliantly by my noble friend Lady Stern...

Earl of Listowel | 698 c971-2 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to listen to the noble Lord, Lord Lucas. He will be aware that the high level of ch...

Lord Bach | 698 c1042-4 (Link to this contribution) It will not change it in itself, but it will make one jot of difference. They have to be rigorously ...

Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 698 c1044 (Link to this contribution) The hour is late, and I do not want to take up too much time, but there is one aspect of what the Mi...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c1044-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have participated in the debate. The Minister said that the new provisio...

Lord Bach | 698 c1045 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to. ...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1042 (Link to this contribution) If breaches occur and no one takes any notice, any number of Acts of Parliament can be written, but ...

Lord Bach | 698 c1042 (Link to this contribution) We are putting the national standards in the Bill, so that everyone knows where they stand. The Yout...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1042 (Link to this contribution) ““It is essential that they should be rigorously monitored””? The noble Lord has just said that they...

Lord Bach | 698 c1042 (Link to this contribution) I take that point, but one of the problems that the National Audit Office pointed out—I am not sayin...

Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 698 c1042 (Link to this contribution) That argument is pernicious. Mr Edward Leigh was obviously pointing to a failure of the system, but ...

Lord Bach | 698 c1041-2 (Link to this contribution) We are always happy to write to the noble Earl, on this occasion as on any other. I am grateful to ...

Earl of Listowel | 698 c1041 (Link to this contribution) I think that the Minister indicated that he might write to me on the comments that I made on the pre...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c1040 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for that explanation. Where we differ is really in a matter of emphasis. Clea...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c1040-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 29: 29: Schedule 2, page 168, line 21, leave out paragraphs 3 and 4 The noble...

Earl of Listowel | 698 c1038 (Link to this contribution) I wonder what would happen if, for example, a young person left care and moved from his foster paren...

Lord Bach | 698 c1038-40 (Link to this contribution) We are very grateful to the noble Baroness for raising the important issue of a breach of a youth re...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1036 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 24 to 27: 24: Schedule 1, page 163, line 27, at end insert— ““( ) In sub-par...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c1036-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 28: 28: Schedule 1, page 167, line 13, leave out paragraph 36 The noble Baron...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1034-5 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that any of us would say that to go voluntarily is not better than to go compulsorily...

Lord Judd | 698 c1034 (Link to this contribution) I was not going to intervene on the amendment, but for the first time in a long time, I was not enti...

Lord Avebury | 698 c1035-6 (Link to this contribution) There is a substantial measure of agreement that has been masked by some sharp interchanges, which d...

Lord Bach | 698 c1035 (Link to this contribution) That is precisely what this Bill does. We hope that people who have offended and have been caught wi...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1036 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 21: 21: Schedule 1, page 160, line 4, leave out from ““team”” to ““, and”” in ...

Lord Bach | 698 c1033 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely no slur on the noble Lord was intended. He seems able to give out some stick but not real...

Lord Ramsbotham | 698 c1033 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to a lot of this with some incredulity. It is a fact that alcohol is behind a lot of...

Earl of Listowel | 698 c1033-4 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister responds, may I just follow that point and put a supplementary question myself? ...

Lord Bach | 698 c1034 (Link to this contribution) I shall make sure that that is done. I think that there is a misunderstanding about the voluntary as...

Lord Bach | 698 c1033 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Thomas should beware.

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1033 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is getting ratty. I am saying, and I think this is blindingly obvious, that alcohol, as...

Lord Bach | 698 c1032-3 (Link to this contribution) That contribution and the one before are not in keeping with the spirit of the Committee so far. Whe...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 698 c1032 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry if I hurt the Minister by exaggerating his point a little. He certainly referred to ex-al...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 698 c1033 (Link to this contribution) Before we get to the serious part, a slur has been made about my contribution after dinner. It is fo...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1033 (Link to this contribution) All I am saying is that this is very serious and the Government ought not to rely on the voluntary p...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c1031 (Link to this contribution) The Government will not be surprised to hear that I share the concerns of my noble friend Lord Onslo...

Lord Bach | 698 c1032 (Link to this contribution) Let me try again. I fear the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, took some pleasure in exaggerating what I said...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1031 (Link to this contribution) I feel that I need to go on worrying at this point. If a young person is drunk when they commit an o...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 698 c1031 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord said that the Government are providing an effective framework for dealing with this p...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c1027 (Link to this contribution) The British Crime Survey states that alcohol is a factor in no less than 47 per cent of violent crim...

Earl of Listowel | 698 c1027 (Link to this contribution) I will briefly add one comment on the numbers of young women who become pregnant as teenagers, and w...

Lord Bach | 698 c1028-9 (Link to this contribution) Much as I would like to promise the noble Earl that I can find those figures for him within a reason...

Lord Ramsbotham | 698 c1029 (Link to this contribution) I listened to that explanation with great interest and I absolutely agree. The same is true for drug...

Lord Bach | 698 c1028 (Link to this contribution) We are grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, for raising what is undoubtedly a very serious issu...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1028 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord let me know how many of those came in the same category of the 17 year-old who w...

Lord Bach | 698 c1031 (Link to this contribution) The point we are trying to make is that a large amount of this treatment goes on voluntarily. The va...

Lord Bach | 698 c1029-30 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I agree that they are necessarily better under someone who, for example, was appr...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1031 (Link to this contribution) Do I understand the noble Lord right in saying that it would be very unusual for a substance misuse ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c960 (Link to this contribution) I am going to duck that, to a certain extent. As I said, we are still considering the matter. It see...

Baroness Stern | 698 c990 (Link to this contribution) As ever, I agree completely with the noble Lord.

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 698 c998-9 (Link to this contribution) Uptariffing, which sounds like something to do with swans, has been going on due to political pressu...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c960 (Link to this contribution) I agree that we should look at the experience of ombudsmen in other areas and we will do so. Clause...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c1027 (Link to this contribution) Another thing that we ought to take into account is that for some quite extraordinary reason there i...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 698 c998 (Link to this contribution) These are not philosophical musings on this side of the Committee, as the Minister seems to suggest....

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 698 c1002 (Link to this contribution) This is Committee stage, and I take the opportunity to say that I believe that the advice I have rec...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c1001 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move.

Earl of Listowel | 698 c1007 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Minister must listen with great interest to what my noble and learned friends hav...

Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 698 c955 (Link to this contribution) We are in two minds on this. We broadly welcome the establishment of a review to rethink this area. ...

Earl of Onslow | 698 c956 (Link to this contribution) I rise in—despair is not exactly the word I am looking for, but it is not a million miles away from ...

Lord Kingsland | 698 c973 (Link to this contribution) I am always extremely tempted by the idea of getting together with the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, a...

Lord Lucas | 698 c970-1 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, has just said and I feel immensely privi...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 698 c1034 (Link to this contribution) Knowing the Minister as well as I do, and hearing his response to my noble friend’s sensible suggest...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 698 c984 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support this amendment. If the evidence is there, as it seems to be on a small scale, the ar...

Notes

Debate in two parts but created here as one record.

Subjects

Children

Criminal proceedings

Alcoholic drinks

Administration of justice

Crimes of violence

Alternatives to prison

Custodial treatment

Advocacy

Age of criminal responsibility