Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

I, too, totally support the amendment and the powerful way in which it was moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Stern. When she says that children are not adults, it goes to the core of the situation. They are not truncated adults; they are a totally different species and, in their own right, deserve to be treated in a wholly specific way. My submission is that nothing in the amendment would in any way frustrate or embarrass the administration of justice to young people. For example, the words, "““shall be the paramount consideration””," echo those in Section 1 of the Children Act 1989 that when dealing with young people—and a young person, for that matter—the ““paramount consideration”” shall be the interests of the child. Regarding the attitude of the courts towards young people, I cannot remember who the learned judge was, but he was a figure of immense distinction, who said, in giving a judgment of the Court of Appeal in a youth case some 30 years ago: ““Society has no higher interest than the reformation of a young man””. There are young men—and indeed children—who are very dangerous and have to be in custody, but they are a small minority. I make no apology for reiterating what I have referred to on more than one occasion in this House over the past few months: we incarcerate more children and young people that any other country in western Europe. I do not have the exact figures with me but I have previously given them to the House. I remember that we incarcerate more than Germany, France, the Netherlands and Norway all put together. It has been said about our rates of incarceration of adults that we are catching more of them, but there can be no question of saying that in this regard. That is not the reason for these figures. The reality of the situation is that we have an attitude that is harsher, less realistic and less humane than those of judges in other countries. The noble Baroness, Lady Stern, raised the question of how high the limit should be with regard to criminal responsibility. I make the point, with some pride, that we already went partly down this path 40 years ago when the Children and Young Persons Act 1969 came into force. There was provision in that Act for the age of criminal responsibility to be raised as high as 14 by Order in Council. Exactly when that was removed I do not know, but I think it was some six or seven years thereafter. The amendment is practical, humane, intelligent and entirely justified. In essence, it says nothing more than what has already been said by Parliament and the courts in this context.