UK Parliament / Open data

Animals Act 1971 (Amendment) Bill

Debate on bills on Friday, 14 March 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Stephen Crabb. The answering member was Jonathan Shaw.
Animals Act 1971 (Amendment) Bill. Second reading debate. Division having fewer than forty Members (26 to 1) Deputy Speaker declared Question not decided. Debate stood over.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
473 c514-88 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Private members' bills proceedings
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Animals Act 1971 (Amendment) Bill. Explanatory Notes Bill 18-EN also published.
Wednesday, 5 December 2007
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Stephen Pound | 473 c585-6 (Link to this contribution) It has been enlightening for me to hear today's comments—I am not merely referring to the journey th...
Stephen Pound | 473 c586 (Link to this contribution) I am, as always, grateful for the hon. Lady's intervention, but I have searched the Bill, the explan...

Show all contributions (242)
Justine Greening | 473 c586 (Link to this contribution) I think that I can help the hon. Gentleman on the question of the purpose. The purpose today was to ...
Stephen Pound | 473 c586-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend. I understand where the hon. Lady is coming from, but every single one of us ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c586 (Link to this contribution) An aspersion has been cast from the other side of the House, but my hon. Friend will know from our d...
Stephen Pound | 473 c587 (Link to this contribution) Before I give way, I hope that it is not necessary to remind the House that the case of McKenny v. F...
Speaker | 473 c587 (Link to this contribution) Order. I do not want a debate on procedure to erupt at this point. We are still dealing with the Bil...
Stephen Pound | 473 c587 (Link to this contribution) It would be a foolish man or woman, Mr. Deputy Speaker, who ever attempted to qualify or interpret y...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c587 (Link to this contribution) rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put. Question, That the Question be...
Speaker | 473 c578 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think that it is right to note that quite serious deficiency, but we can only congratulate ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c577-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend gives an interesting set of circumstances. I think that he will find that if an inexp...
Stephen Pound | 473 c577 (Link to this contribution) Before my hon. Friend moves from horses to dogs, is there not implicit in his comments a duty of res...
Stephen Pound | 473 c579 (Link to this contribution) I am following my hon. Friend's analysis. Is he not leading us in the direction that many of us in t...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c579 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I have not overcome the handicap, but I will try to work from the exp...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c573 (Link to this contribution) If it were a wild horse, it would probably come under section 2(1) of the 1971 Act. However, a horse...
Stephen Pound | 473 c573 (Link to this contribution) An aardvark never killed anybody.
Andrew Dismore | 473 c582 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that it is, given that Mirvahedy may be responsible for only a handful of cases. In f...
Stephen Pound | 473 c581-2 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the whole House is grateful for that information, which will come as a considerable s...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c582-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point, and he may well be right. Obviously it is far better for case...
Roger Williams | 473 c582 (Link to this contribution) That may be so, but might not a number of cases have been settled as a result of Mirvahedy that woul...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c584-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right; that is why the law makes the distinctions between wild animals and domesti...
Stephen Pound | 473 c580 (Link to this contribution) Is it my hon. Friend's understanding that the Government wish to revisit this area? In autumn 2006—l...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c580 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an interesting question, and I am not quite sure that I know the answer to it....
Andrew Dismore | 473 c573 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting point. To gallop is a natural characteristic of a horse. In the situation tha...
Stephen Pound | 473 c572 (Link to this contribution) There are not many riding schools in my constituency. However, if a fox hunt was roaring through a v...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c538 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend seeks clarification of the law, presumably as the hon. Gentleman has expressed it ...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c538 (Link to this contribution) I will answer that point. We must decide today whether we believe that someone should be liable in e...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c540 (Link to this contribution) Let me give my hon. Friend an example, and let us see what he thinks of it. When the Department was ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c540 (Link to this contribution) First, my hon. Friend is not considering the post-Mirvahedy cases, which would not create that situa...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c538-9 (Link to this contribution) I have not studied the form of the insurance industry in relation to the equestrian industry. That i...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c539 (Link to this contribution) I agree that when the matter was first considered by Lord Goddard's committee in the 1950s, and by t...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c539-40 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not agree. Riding a horse in the beautiful Pembrokeshire countryside is the same today as i...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c540 (Link to this contribution) I certainly think that if someone owns an animal, they should be responsible for it. If that animal ...
John Robertson | 473 c527 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but I think you give me more credit than I am due. My hon. Friend th...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c527 (Link to this contribution) It is not the number of cases but the size of the pay-out that is significant. That may solve hon. M...
Speaker | 473 c527 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Member for Leominster appears to have intervened on an intervention, but I am sure t...
John Robertson | 473 c527 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Member for Leominster want to intervene?
John Robertson | 473 c526-7 (Link to this contribution) That is also my concern. My hon. Friend is much more knowledgeable than I am on that matter and I am...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c526 (Link to this contribution) Let us suppose that a family goes out for a walk to the countryside on a Sunday afternoon. They are ...
John Robertson | 473 c525-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has told a good story, although I could probably beat it. Let me give an example. We...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c525 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has hit on an important point. I have been bitten while election campaigning. During ...
John Robertson | 473 c524-5 (Link to this contribution) One can certainly spot the skyscrapers, flats and housing estates; closer into Glasgow are the more ...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c530-2 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Bill and pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Mr. Crabb...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c532 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is quoting Lord Nicholls's judgment in the Mirvahedy case, but does he agree that...
Roger Williams | 473 c529-30 (Link to this contribution) I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Mr. Crabb) not only on introducing t...
Tim Farron | 473 c528-9 (Link to this contribution) I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Mr. Crabb) on his success in bringin...
Roger Williams | 473 c530 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman. I was coming to that point. People have often opposed increased access b...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c530 (Link to this contribution) The point that the hon. Gentleman is making is very important and is exactly why the Ramblers Associ...
John Robertson | 473 c527-8 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but if I were running an insurance company, I would be talking ...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c527 (Link to this contribution) The size of the premium reflects the risk. The risk is not necessarily in the number of claims but i...
John Robertson | 473 c528 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right, and there is a problem. I have spoken for far longer than I anticipated bu...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c528 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has been generous in giving way. The hon. Member for Leominster (Bill Wiggin) made a ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c535 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman provides an interesting example because section 5 of the original Act would provi...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c533-4 (Link to this contribution) I was not aware of that and it is helpful that my hon. Friend has put that on the record. It is imp...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c532-3 (Link to this contribution) The Bill does not just apply to riding schools. The point of the proposed change is that it would ap...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c532 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but I assume that he has read the Riding Establishments Acts 19...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c535 (Link to this contribution) No, I think that the hon. Gentleman has got that completely wrong. It is clear from his intervention...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c534 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman therefore quite prepared to see people who are seriously injured or just injur...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c534 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman in a few moments, but he asked me about this matter earlier an...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c532 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman sets out the choice that we will face, which I shall sum up later. I agree that t...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c536 (Link to this contribution) I, too, begin by congratulating the hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Mr. Crabb), who began his...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c535-6 (Link to this contribution) Now I understand what the hon. Gentleman is talking about. I am grateful for that clarification. The...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c536-7 (Link to this contribution) I can assure my hon. Friend that the consultation ranged far and wide and included insurance compani...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c536 (Link to this contribution) That list of consultees seems to come from one side of the fence, if I may put it that way. What con...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c537 (Link to this contribution) As I say, we conduct our consultations in accordance with the rules set out by the Cabinet Office.
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c537-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for what I think was an intervention on me. It is a considerable achievement for the h...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c537 (Link to this contribution) To clarify the point, let me say that no one has attempted to portray the Association of Personal In...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c535 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has focused on section 2 of the original Act, which is what we are debating today...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c535 (Link to this contribution) I am not quite sure that I understood what the hon. Gentleman meant by that. Perhaps he would like t...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c520-1 (Link to this contribution) I understand where the hon. Gentleman wants to go with this line of inquiry, but it is not true that...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c520 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that he believes that the Mirvahedy case was fought between the insurance co...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c518 (Link to this contribution) We have discussed the issue in detail with not only stakeholder organisations representing the inter...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c518 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a great deal of the impact on insurance. Will he comment on a point made on...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c518-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that helpful intervention. The opaque language of section 2...
David Heath | 473 c518 (Link to this contribution) The last intervention was based on a misconception. The premium is based on contingency, not on the ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c517 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has been talking in support of his Bill for 10 minutes, and he has concentrated o...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c517 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will be aware that other legislation covers dangerous dogs, and I understand that...
David Heath | 473 c517-8 (Link to this contribution) I entirely support the Bill and hope that it makes progress. Is not the problem with the state of th...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c518 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is exactly right and he makes an important intervention. Nothing in the Bill woul...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c523 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is being very generous and good-hearted, and I do not want to fall out with him p...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c523 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman for the last time.
Andrew Dismore | 473 c523 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Stephen Crabb | 473 c522-3 (Link to this contribution) According to the 1967 Law Commission report that informed the drafting of the 1971 Act, it was never...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c523 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows about the insurance sector; I know a little about it too. It is not for Par...
Justine Greening | 473 c521 (Link to this contribution) The rising premiums that were mentioned earlier may well be the result of the costs of such court ca...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c521-2 (Link to this contribution) I sense that the hon. Gentleman is trying to broaden the discussion from what my Bill is designed to...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c522 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman refers to people who could still bring claims of negligence, but he has not answe...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c521 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right in her analysis. Other factors are also in play, and the owners of riding st...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c521 (Link to this contribution) There is a counter-intuitive argument here, which the hon. Lady raised from the wrong perspective, a...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c524 (Link to this contribution) I had wanted to put that point to the hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire in an intervention. He t...
John Robertson | 473 c524 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Mr. Crabb) on his private Member's Bill. I...
John Robertson | 473 c524 (Link to this contribution) That brings me to animals' actions that affect my constituents. I am a city MP; as far as I know, th...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c523 (Link to this contribution) No, I just said that I hoped that the Bill, in clarifying the 1971 Act, would result in a limit on t...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c523 (Link to this contribution) From the evidence that I have seen and discussed with departmental officials and many Members across...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c523-4 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way again to the hon. Gentleman. My Bill's primary purpose is to fix not insurance p...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c514-5 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. The purpose of this Bill is to bring clarit...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c515-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is absolutely right. I have been delighted with the response to the Bill both from org...
Baroness Hoey | 473 c515 (Link to this contribution) I fully support the hon. Gentleman's Bill, and I hope that it will be enacted. Does he agree that th...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c516 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. I understand that the Government are very supportive of the Bill. I have been delighted ...
Christopher Chope | 473 c516 (Link to this contribution) I, too, think that this is an excellent Bill. Do the Government agree?
Stephen Crabb | 473 c516-7 (Link to this contribution) That would have been nice, though. We have had meetings with stakeholder organisations to clarify t...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c572 (Link to this contribution) I am contending for the status quo—nothing more and nothing less. Nobody would lose out on anything ...
Theresa Villiers | 473 c572 (Link to this contribution) Has the hon. Gentleman consulted any of the excellent riding schools in his own constituency, in Mil...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c570-2 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for rescuing me, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I could see myself getting into somewhat hot water ov...
Speaker | 473 c570 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think that that is for another day.
Andrew Dismore | 473 c572 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I follow my hon. Friend's point, or that anyone else does either, but I think tha...
Stephen Pound | 473 c572 (Link to this contribution) Is not the logic of what my hon. Friend says that the hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire—for the ...
Stephen Pound | 473 c570 (Link to this contribution) I was trying to make the point that the majority of domestic animals might live in a state of nature...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c570 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an interesting case. I am not sure whether a ferret is classed as a wild or do...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c540 (Link to this contribution) Okay. I think that my hon. Friend agrees with me on those circumstances, so we need to clarify the l...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c543 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has given a very emotive example. Of course no hon. Member wants that to happen to a ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c540-1 (Link to this contribution) Let us take the example of the horse that shied with an inexperienced rider. Let us suppose that a y...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c541-2 (Link to this contribution) We are looking for clarification of a particular situation. My hon. Friend's example takes us into a...
John Robertson | 473 c544 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend saying that because there is a potential for compensation, that is having an effec...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c544-5 (Link to this contribution) I must take us back to where I began. It is essential that we understand that this is clarifying the...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c543-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has just said that these cases are very rare, and we know that that is the case from ...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c544 (Link to this contribution) What about the question of insurance? I accept that there are not many cases, but this is clearly ha...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c543 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Member for Hendon is arguing that my Bill undoes a higher level of protection that Mirva...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c543 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention —I think it was directed at me. The Government appreciate that ...
Khalid Mahmood | 473 c545 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend provide some clarification for me on an incident in an urban environment? In a p...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c545 (Link to this contribution) I am coming on to the dog questions—my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, North-West asked about th...
John Robertson | 473 c545 (Link to this contribution) The dog ran away with my hon. Friend's speech.
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c545 (Link to this contribution) Yes, the dog nicked my speech—it ate my homework. The Government believe that it is in everybody's ...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c546 (Link to this contribution) Any other bids for this Bill? [Hon. Members: ““No Brushes.””] Anything else—no? We can perhaps predi...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c546 (Link to this contribution) They have retreated already: they are changing their minds and flip-flopping once again. I turn to ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c546 (Link to this contribution) I think that my hon. Friend would find that most of those cases are based on section 2 of the Animal...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c546 (Link to this contribution) Section 2 may be used, but I am advised that the law that I am discussing is the one that people can...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c546 (Link to this contribution) I assure my hon. Friend that this Bill will not affect those circumstances: those claims will still ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c546 (Link to this contribution) Those claims are being brought and they are being paid through household insurance. To return to our...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c549 (Link to this contribution) A plethora; who shall I start with? I shall I give way to the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr...
Desmond Turner | 473 c548-9 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree with the perhaps simplistic thought that if we start from the proposition ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c549 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an extremely constructive point. I am not sure that we will be able to eliminat...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c547 (Link to this contribution) I am concerned about those. If there is any law that the hon. Gentleman wishes to introduce, I shall...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c547-8 (Link to this contribution) First, I should remind that House that I was a personal injury lawyer for 20 years before I was a Me...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c546-7 (Link to this contribution) In every county of England that has a coastline—I would have thought that was obvious, but I am plea...
Stephen Pound | 473 c570 (Link to this contribution) I am loth to mention the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 further. However, one of the great difficulties wit...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c570 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises a very interesting point. Ultimately, that is a matter for case law. There is ...
Stephen Pound | 473 c567 (Link to this contribution) Before my hon. Friend moves off that point, one of the key issues in the 1967 Law Commission report ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c567-8 (Link to this contribution) The answer lies in the cases to which I previously referred. They highlighted a series of examples t...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c568-70 (Link to this contribution) I certainly do not blame the hon. Gentleman for the Bill in 1971. I blame his party, and he has to t...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c565-6 (Link to this contribution) Yes, but I am always willing to give a clear answer when I am able to do so. One or two of the dog ...
Speaker | 473 c566 (Link to this contribution) Order. I say to the hon. Gentleman that I do not think he has to go through every case in order to m...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c566-7 (Link to this contribution) As always, I take your constraints to heart, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I assure you that I was not going t...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c561 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Lady, who is not a regular attender on a Friday—[Hon. Members: ““Oh.””] Well...
Justine Greening | 473 c561 (Link to this contribution) I am listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman. He mentioned that his dog died, and I am sorry to he...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c562 (Link to this contribution) If that is the case, she will know that the debate turns on section 2(2)(b) of the Animals Act 1971 ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c562 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the hon. Lady has been in the Chamber for the whole debate—
Justine Greening | 473 c561 (Link to this contribution) I am interested by the hon. Gentleman's comments. My point is that going back to the Bible is a rath...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c562 (Link to this contribution) In that case, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will not entertain the House further with the laws of Alfred, en...
Speaker | 473 c562 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman will not be in order if he continues to trace back the whole history. We a...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c562 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman's Bill does exactly that; if he wants to change the law around, he must understan...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c562 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman clearly has not been listening that carefully to the debate. If he had, he would ...
Speaker | 473 c562 (Link to this contribution) Order. I understand that that might be to the extreme disappointment of the hon. Member for Ealing, ...
Stephen Pound | 473 c562-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right to concentrate on first principles. I understand why you have mad...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c562 (Link to this contribution) I shall send you the cuttings afterwards, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and you can read them over in the Tea ...
Speaker | 473 c563 (Link to this contribution) Order—but not the siren call from the Chair.
Stephen Pound | 473 c565 (Link to this contribution) I am fascinated by the legal journey—if not marathon—on which my hon. Friend is taking us, but let u...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c563-5 (Link to this contribution) Of course, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We need to examine the law of negligence, and the starting point for...
Stephen Pound | 473 c565 (Link to this contribution) Not for the first time—and, sadly, probably not for the last—I did not make myself entirely clear. I...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c565 (Link to this contribution) Basically, I do not think it would. Let me explain my concern. I have been sharing these cases becau...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c565 (Link to this contribution) I can give a straightforward answer to that: no.
Andrew Dismore | 473 c559 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that there has been a flurry of cases. If we go through history, we find such cases c...
Stephen Pound | 473 c559 (Link to this contribution) The Law Commission report on which the Animals Act 1971 was based actually reported in 1967—41 years...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c558 (Link to this contribution) I regret to tell my hon. Friend that the Bill will not assist them at all. That is the issue. It tak...
Khalid Mahmood | 473 c558 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, North-West (John Robertson) and I mentioned earlier with p...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c558 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to accept what the hon. Gentleman says about Ms Rodway, but I am talking about cause and ...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c557-8 (Link to this contribution) She is one of the UK's three leading barristers with expertise on the 1971 Act. The hon. Gentleman s...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c557 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will clarify whether he is quoting an article by Susan Rodway QC.
Andrew Dismore | 473 c557 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire said at the start of this debate that the number of cases ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c559 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend suggests the 1980s, but I actually mean the 1880s, as there have been many such cases...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c561 (Link to this contribution) As usual, my hon. Friend puts the point succinctly, and we need to see the root of how we got there....
Stephen Pound | 473 c561 (Link to this contribution) I am sure the whole House is grateful for the enlightenment provided by my hon. Friend. I have to sa...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c559 (Link to this contribution) First, I do not concede that any such confusion in the law is as confusing as the hon. Gentleman sug...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c559 (Link to this contribution) There may be relatively few cases, but there is certainly enormous confusion about the law. Even whe...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c559-61 (Link to this contribution) The fact remains, to finish the point about insurance that my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, Nor...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c553 (Link to this contribution) That is unusual. Generally speaking, people are not insured in such cases; if Mr. Mirvahedy was, tha...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c553 (Link to this contribution) That is the point—it is a question of ““stick or twist””. Personally, I think that the Mirvahedy cas...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c552-3 (Link to this contribution) On the intervention made by the hon. Member for Ealing, North (Stephen Pound), I should say that my ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c553 (Link to this contribution) I think that I know what the hon. Gentleman's intervention was going to be.
Andrew Dismore | 473 c553 (Link to this contribution) If that is not what he is trying to say, so be it. My mind-reading ability and crystal ball have fai...
Stephen Pound | 473 c553 (Link to this contribution) Good Lord; is there no limit to your powers?
Andrew Dismore | 473 c553 (Link to this contribution) I can be a bit of a mind reader sometimes; I have had to be many times in this area of the law. I th...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c556 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has hit the nail on the head. The insurance industry has not made an assessment t...
Roger Williams | 473 c556 (Link to this contribution) I am not entirely knowledgeable about the black arts of the actuarial profession—the actuary of actu...
Stephen Pound | 473 c556-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not share my hon. Friend's gifts of clairvoyance, but for a moment I peered into my mind and sa...
Speaker | 473 c553-4 (Link to this contribution) I say gently to the hon. Gentleman that although this is the Second Reading of a private Member's Bi...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c554 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker; I am afraid that I got carried away by the interventions.
Andrew Dismore | 473 c554 (Link to this contribution) And clairvoyance. I apologise. The purpose of the Bill is to clarify the law, a point mentioned by ...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c554 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. In your previous ruling, you advised the hon. Member for He...
Speaker | 473 c554 (Link to this contribution) Such matters are for debate. I would have interrupted the hon. Member for Hendon if I had thought th...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c554-6 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I had finished my point, so the hon. Member for Leominster (Bill Wigg...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c551 (Link to this contribution) Owning a fighting dog would be a criminal offence under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, but unfortunate...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c550 (Link to this contribution) I think that my hon. Friend will find that that does not follow because that Act creates criminal li...
Jonathan Shaw | 473 c550 (Link to this contribution) Let me make a point of clarification because dogs have been referred to a great deal and we have hea...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c550 (Link to this contribution) I am not in the least bit surprised.
Stephen Pound | 473 c550 (Link to this contribution) For the information of the House, I have, of course, read everything that Sir Thomas More wrote.
Stephen Pound | 473 c550 (Link to this contribution) It is a perfectly worthy ambition.
Andrew Dismore | 473 c550 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, as a good Catholic, my hon. Friend has read Sir Thomas More's book, ““Utopia””, and sees ...
David Heath | 473 c549 (Link to this contribution) I do not understand the logic of what the hon. Gentleman is saying. I could understand it if he was ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c549-50 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman probably means the driver. If a driver drove into the wall outside my house, they...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c552 (Link to this contribution) That is basically my position on the Bill. The hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire does not want t...
Desmond Turner | 473 c552 (Link to this contribution) This is a salient point. If we are talking about clarifying the law, the simple test is whether the ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c552 (Link to this contribution) I would simply say to my hon. Friend that if it is his cow, it is his responsibility. That is my ans...
Stephen Pound | 473 c552 (Link to this contribution) This may appear to be a slightly abstruse debate, but we should never forget that in McKenny v. Fost...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c552 (Link to this contribution) I would tend to agree with my hon. Friend. We may reach this point later, but having looked at the B...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c551 (Link to this contribution) This is a Second Reading debate. The hon. Gentleman is trying to weaken the existing elements of str...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c551 (Link to this contribution) I am not trying to remove strict liability where it already exists in law. The whole point is that t...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c551 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, and my hon. Friend the Minister said that the object was to cla...
Stephen Pound | 473 c551-2 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear that my hon. Friend finds Mirvahedy straightforward. That is another complime...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c551 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to follow the hon. Gentleman's argument. It appears that his main objection is not with ...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c579-80 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right, and I briefly hinted at that point earlier. There really is a problem here....
Andrew Dismore | 473 c537 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way again, because he has not really answered the point: ...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c523 (Link to this contribution) If the intention of the original Bill had been to enforce an insurance obligation on animal owners, ...
Stephen Pound | 473 c584 (Link to this contribution) Before my hon. Friend moves off that point, may I say that I do not think that anyone would accuse t...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c580-1 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend says, a lion is a cat. If he looks at the Dangerous Wild Animals Act 1976, he will...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c542-3 (Link to this contribution) I am still waiting for the Minister's answer to the key question. Is he prepared to see cases involv...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c533 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend helpfully mentions that 26 out of the 29 respondents to the consultation supported my...
Justine Greening | 473 c568 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman cannot really blame my hon. Friend the Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire for that;...
Stephen Crabb | 473 c553 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman seems content with the law as it has been since the case of Mirvahedy. Yet in the...
Khalid Mahmood | 473 c550 (Link to this contribution) There are some very irresponsible dog owners in urban areas who do not insure or take precautions. T...
Stephen Pound | 473 c573 (Link to this contribution) I am no great expert on the horse, but it cannot be the natural characteristic of a horse to be ridd...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c538 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way, because I want to put to him the point that I put ea...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c527 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire said that only a tiny number of cases would be affected. I...
Andrew Dismore | 473 c573-7 (Link to this contribution) That may be true, but it is a dangerous wild animal according to the 1976 Act. I think that its draf...
Subjects
Animals
Damage
Liability
Horse riding
Insurance
Horses
Rural areas
Urban areas
Legislation
Animals Act 1971 (Amendment) Bill 2007-08
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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