UK Parliament / Open data

Pensions Reform

Adjournment debate on Tuesday, 27 June 2006, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Hutton of Furness. The answering member was Lord Hammond of Runnymede.
Debate on a motion for the adjournment on the white paper on pensions reform (Security in Retirement White Paper - Cm 6841).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
448 c138-230 
Session
2005-06
Department
Department for Work and Pensions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items

Show all related items (6)
Security in retirement; towards a new pensions system.
Thursday, 25 May 2006
Command papers
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 448 c151-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her intervention, and the Secretary of State is absolutely right,...
Iain Wright | 448 c208-10 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the hon. Gentleman is saying. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I remember a report ...

Show all contributions (156)
John Butterfill | 448 c208 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Gentleman does not overlook the role of the Inland Revenue. One of the reasons ...
Diana Johnson | 448 c219 (Link to this contribution) I want to consider financial literacy, especially the financial education that our young people rece...
Brooks Newmark | 448 c217-9 (Link to this contribution) I should like to address three concerns that arise from the Government’s proposal for pension reform...
Mark Lazarowicz | 448 c214-7 (Link to this contribution) Like the majority of hon. Members who have spoken in the debate, I welcome the work of the Pensions ...
Philip Dunne | 448 c210-4 (Link to this contribution) I remind the House of my entry in the Register of Members’ Interests. I have a personal pension, and...
Diana Johnson | 448 c222 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. However, my concern is that to achieve consensus in the country we must ens...
Kali Mountford | 448 c219-20 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way so early in her already brilliant speech. What does s...
Diana Johnson | 448 c220-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention because it leads nicely to the comments that I...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 448 c198-200 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate. I also welcome many aspects of the Gove...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 448 c200-1 (Link to this contribution) There is much merit in that point and I am sure that it has been noted by the Minister. I hope that ...
David Drew | 448 c200 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman, and I have a company in my constituency called Lister Pett...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 448 c201 (Link to this contribution) I know that some of those workers live in my hon. Friend’s constituency and that of my hon. Friend t...
Adrian Bailey | 448 c202-4 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the White Paper. Of all the White Papers that I have ever read, it is probably the most lu...
Mike Penning | 448 c204-5 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening to the debate for the past four and a half hours and have thoroughly enjoyed t...
Sammy Wilson | 448 c205-6 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that by splitting things up and looking at individual schemes, we migh...
Mike Penning | 448 c206 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. The Prime Minister seemed to make up the figure of £15 billi...
Iain Wright | 448 c207-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a genuine pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning). We speak fair...
James Purnell | 448 c230 (Link to this contribution) I must wind up. We are serious about consensus. We welcome the spirit in which people have approache...
James Purnell | 448 c230 (Link to this contribution) I can give that assurance. I welcome the welcome that was given by Members on both sides of the Hous...
Kali Mountford | 448 c230 (Link to this contribution) I know that it is late in the day, but some important points were raised about carers and women. Wil...
Mike Weir | 448 c227 (Link to this contribution) My point, which I raised with the Minister both in this debate and earlier in the day, has to do spe...
James Purnell | 448 c225-7 (Link to this contribution) This has indeed been a good and important debate. Here we are, six hours after the start, with anoth...
David Laws | 448 c228 (Link to this contribution) But due to the impact of means-testing, the individuals whom it is most difficult to encourage to ma...
James Purnell | 448 c227-8 (Link to this contribution) That is what our health inequalities agenda is about. My constituency suffers from exactly those pro...
Nigel Waterson | 448 c224-5 (Link to this contribution) It is test inflation. These are the six tests. Do the reforms deliver pensioner dignity, rolling ba...
James Purnell | 448 c228-9 (Link to this contribution) We want to work with the hon. Gentleman on developing those issues, but to respond to his point, if ...
James Purnell | 448 c229 (Link to this contribution) I must finish. We will be happy to continue to update the House on the costs that the hon. Member fo...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 448 c229-30 (Link to this contribution) The Minister must not go on repeating those things. He knows very well, and he has heard me say clea...
Mike Weir | 448 c190-1 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway (Mr. Brown) said, the word ““consensus”” has floated ar...
Russell Brown | 448 c188-89 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that will go on the record and I hope that any employers taking an interest in today’s debate w...
Jim McGovern | 448 c188 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my concern that if employers are given an opportunity to contribute just 3...
Russell Brown | 448 c186-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose). I say that because ...
Mike Weir | 448 c191-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady will find out soon enough. Two years ago, we published our own paper, ““A secure ret...
Anne Begg | 448 c191 (Link to this contribution) If by some strange miracle pigs were suddenly to fly and the Scottish National party were to obtain ...
Danny Alexander | 448 c186 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the need to have a stable and enduring consensus, ...
John Penrose | 448 c186 (Link to this contribution) I agree that lack of public trust in the pensions system is one of the biggest problems that we face...
John Penrose | 448 c184-6 (Link to this contribution) I should like to pick up some comments made by the hon. Member for Aberdeen, South (Miss Begg) who, ...
Kali Mountford | 448 c196 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who makes my point even more concisely than I had hoped to do. He i...
Kali Mountford | 448 c197 (Link to this contribution) It is a problem in some sectors, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, North (Mr. Rooney) p...
David Drew | 448 c197 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with my hon. Friend on the generational issues. One of the problems in that regard ...
Kali Mountford | 448 c197-8 (Link to this contribution) That is precisely why we have problems in the pensions sector now. There were warnings in the 1980s ...
David Drew | 448 c197 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with my hon. Friend, but the problem is that those who took early retirement often ...
Mike Weir | 448 c192-4 (Link to this contribution) The point is to consider taxation on private pensions. The system will change, whether we use our pr...
Kali Mountford | 448 c194 (Link to this contribution) I have noticed a distinct difference in the tone of this debate compared with previous pensions deba...
Stewart Hosie | 448 c194 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether the hon. Lady’s argument is the right way round, as I think that the consensus...
Kali Mountford | 448 c195-6 (Link to this contribution) That is true to some extent. I also find some pensioners who, having taken advantage of the many off...
Speaker | 448 c138 (Link to this contribution) I inform the House that I have selected the amendment in the name of the Leader of the Opposition.
Robert Syms | 448 c176-8 (Link to this contribution) This is an important debate. I suspect that security in old age is one of the most important issues ...
Robert Syms | 448 c178 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes her point, but it is clear that as the state pushes up the retirement age many o...
Anne Begg | 448 c178 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is in danger of misleading himself—I will not say the House. The state retirement...
Robert Syms | 448 c179-80 (Link to this contribution) I agree that it is sensible to honour contracts entered into, but we are talking about the agreement...
Stewart Hosie | 448 c178 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening to the hon. Gentleman’s argument and the intervention from the hon. Member for...
Mike Weir | 448 c181 (Link to this contribution) The point made by my party’s amendment is that the White Paper omits any discussion on the central p...
Anne Begg | 448 c180-1 (Link to this contribution) I think that we all come into Parliament with the intention of making a difference. I genuinely beli...
Mike Weir | 448 c182 (Link to this contribution) There are some parts of the White Paper with which we agree, but may I stress again that we are in f...
Anne Begg | 448 c181-2 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Gentleman has made my point for me. A citizens pension did not necessarily hav...
Anne Begg | 448 c182-3 (Link to this contribution) If that is the case, the SNP should have tabled an amendment adding their proposals to the end of th...
Sandra Osborne | 448 c174-5 (Link to this contribution) I am aware that there are genuine difficulties in identifying all those who are eligible for the sch...
Stewart Hosie | 448 c173-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady will be aware that one of the problems with the financial assistance scheme is that it...
Sandra Osborne | 448 c173 (Link to this contribution) I agree that it is alleged that the 80 per cent.—in common with the other percentages that I have qu...
Nigel Waterson | 448 c173 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that one of the problems is that the Government talk about percentages of w...
Sandra Osborne | 448 c175 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for backing me up—I have certainly heard him say that many times before.
Nigel Waterson | 448 c175 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is absolutely right: at no stage have the official Opposition ever committed taxpayers...
Sandra Osborne | 448 c175 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is about to dispute that, I am happy to give way.
Sandra Osborne | 448 c176 (Link to this contribution) I will ask the Minister about precisely that issue in a moment. The Opposition’s reaction to the mon...
James Purnell | 448 c175 (Link to this contribution) But is my hon. Friend aware that those unclaimed assets are not the Government’s money? It is obviou...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 448 c148-50 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, at the end of the Question, to add:"““, recognises the importance of consensus in ens...
Kali Mountford | 448 c148 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his explanations of the various schemes and the balance be...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c148 (Link to this contribution) I will describe the changes briefly. As my hon. Friend knows, we shall consult on the detail, but in...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 448 c145-6 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my right hon. Friend will ask the Minister for Pensions Reform to deal with this questio...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c145 (Link to this contribution) To some extent, pension credit will cover women in those circumstances. I am sure that my hon. Frien...
Iris Robinson | 448 c145 (Link to this contribution) What does the Secretary of State intend to do for the many widows who, on the death of their husband...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c144-5 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the Treasury Committee’s excellent report, which has helped o...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 448 c143-4 (Link to this contribution) In the light of his comments about longevity, will the Secretary of State now extend his speech? I t...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c143 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way. I want to give the House some good news. Our life expectancy will have increase...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c143 (Link to this contribution) I will do so a bit later, if my hon. Friend will bear with me. In extending the financial assistanc...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c143 (Link to this contribution) I am only on page 6, so the hon. Gentleman had better make himself comfortable.
Julie Kirkbride | 448 c142 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c142 (Link to this contribution) The cash valuation is £15 billion. That is what I said in my statement, and that is still my view of...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c142 (Link to this contribution) With great respect to hon. Members on both sides of the House, I intend to make a little progress wi...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c142 (Link to this contribution) No. It is not true, as the hon. Lady has implied, that we have somehow changed our assessment of th...
Julie Kirkbride | 448 c141-2 (Link to this contribution) It would be helpful if the Secretary of State were to clarify the liabilities in relation to those w...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c141 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. We originally set aside £400 million for the ...
Kelvin Hopkins | 448 c140 (Link to this contribution) Has my right hon. Friend received recommendations from the National Pensioners Convention and others...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c140-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that, because the White Paper confirmed that we would continue to uprate the pension...
Lynne Jones | 448 c140 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c140 (Link to this contribution) No, because I have given way to my hon. Friend already.
Chris Mullin | 448 c141 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend remind the House by how much that financial assistance scheme has been exp...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c140 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that we are proposing any additional tax relief for employers. The hon. Gentleman gav...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c140 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Chancellor keeps all taxation issues under regular review. When thi...
Mike Weir | 448 c140 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman says that tax relief is a matter for the Chancellor, but surely it is funda...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c140 (Link to this contribution) I will give way once more, but then I want to make progress, because there is a time limit on Back-B...
Mike Weir | 448 c140 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c139 (Link to this contribution) I shall come on to that in a moment. The White Paper acknowledges that there are some issues, partic...
Lynne Jones | 448 c139 (Link to this contribution) In terms of cost, does my right hon. Friend propose to redistribute the money that is spent on tax r...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c139 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not propose to bring such a proposal before the House, because, as my hon. Friend knows, I ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c139 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman, who has a special expertise in this subject.
John Butterfill | 448 c139-40 (Link to this contribution) On tax relief, will the right hon. Gentleman clarify the answer to the question that I asked him whe...
John Redwood | 448 c138 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way so early in his speech. Why are the reforms n...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c138 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House welcomes the White Paper ‘Security in retirement: towards a new pensi...
David Laws | 448 c139 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has indicated that he wants to establish a consensus on the matter and hold d...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c138-9 (Link to this contribution) I shall address that point in a second, but that is not the view of my right hon. Friend the Chancel...
Sandra Osborne | 448 c171-3 (Link to this contribution) In view of the number of Members who wish to speak, I will be as brief as possible. I wish to commen...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 448 c169 (Link to this contribution) It is the solution that I mentioned a moment ago. We should have a simple scheme, whereby we continu...
John Butterfill | 448 c169-71 (Link to this contribution) I do not often disagree fundamentally with the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field), but I d...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 448 c168-9 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman knows, I favour a single scheme for everybody, whereby we continue the basic s...
Sandra Osborne | 448 c169 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in what my right hon. Friend has to say and I will certainly reflect on it. I am sur...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 448 c167-8 (Link to this contribution) I want to thank my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on two counts. First, our life expectanc...
John Butterfill | 448 c168 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman. Does he agree that we need to establish an incentive...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 448 c166 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly confused by something that the hon. Gentleman has just said. He expressed the concern ...
David Laws | 448 c166-7 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree. The point that I was seeking to make was that if we have a significant element of ...
David Laws | 448 c164-6 (Link to this contribution) I am fascinated to hear that. If the Minister looks at the Hansard report, he will see that a clear ...
David Laws | 448 c163 (Link to this contribution) I note the Secretary of State’s comments and the difference between modelling assumptions and recomm...
Baroness Hoey | 448 c163 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right that there is huge concern in our constituencies about when the earnings...
David Laws | 448 c163-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is right. She will have found, as many Members will have done, that although there was...
James Purnell | 448 c164 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to make it clear that all that we are saying is that the two fit well together in terms o...
David Laws | 448 c162 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is right to say that all aspects of remuneration are considered together, but wrong to...
Terry Rooney | 448 c162 (Link to this contribution) The Government are not the employer in the local government pension scheme, but the regulator.
David Laws | 448 c162-3 (Link to this contribution) The Chairman of the Select Committee makes a technically accurate point, but one that ignores the fa...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c163 (Link to this contribution) It is important to correct what the hon. Gentleman has said about us not accepting Turner’s recommen...
David Laws | 448 c161-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman, but perhaps he misunderstood my argument. I am arguing that the way in w...
Kali Mountford | 448 c162 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman points to the apparent disparity between different people in similar-seeming jobs...
Russell Brown | 448 c161 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman paints a picture of local government pension schemes. I remind him that some of t...
Terry Rooney | 448 c156-7 (Link to this contribution) In recent weeks, the Work and Pensions Committee has taken evidence on the Pensions Commission repor...
David Leslie Taylor | 448 c158 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right to focus on the two categories of fragmented employment and self-employment,...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c155 (Link to this contribution) May I once again put on the record my strong view that the figures are not bogus? The £15 billion wa...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 448 c156 (Link to this contribution) If, when we are in government in three years’ time or later, the Secretary of State has not resolved...
Terry Rooney | 448 c159 (Link to this contribution) Without naming names, when a multinational company is willing to break the law on trade union recogn...
David Laws | 448 c159-61 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal Democrats also welcome the opportunity to debate the detail of the White Paper. As the S...
Terry Rooney | 448 c158 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right, and as he speaks with the voice of the accountancy profession, I would expe...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 448 c159 (Link to this contribution) I am wary of creating new regulators and having more regulation, but I entirely recognise his point....
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 448 c155 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s plea for transparency. First, we need information. I also agree wi...
David Leslie Taylor | 448 c155 (Link to this contribution) Those people will not go away, including those in the BUSM scheme in Leicester, some of whom live in...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 448 c154-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a good point. The issue is not just about the supremacy of Parliament over the ...
John Redwood | 448 c150 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes the extremely important point that whatever people today think about consensus—...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 448 c150 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend takes me almost exactly on to my next point: there is no transparency in the fi...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c150-1 (Link to this contribution) I genuinely did not intend to interrupt the hon. Gentleman’s speech, but let me point two things out...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 448 c151 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is right to say that everything is set out, say on page 299 of the Turner rep...
Sandra Osborne | 448 c151-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a welcome commitment to trying to reach consensus on the way forward. We al...
David Laws | 448 c153 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises a serious point. Given his party’s general support in principle for the NP...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 448 c153-4 (Link to this contribution) The policy solution is to create a more attractive regime for occupational pension schemes so that e...
Jenny Willott | 448 c154 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there is a startling resemblance between the current occupational...
Kali Mountford | 448 c221-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a valid point about health inequalities. When pensions were first introduce...
Anne Begg | 448 c192 (Link to this contribution) I have heard the hon. Gentleman make this argument on a number of occasions. What would he say to th...
Jim McGovern | 448 c196 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that any consultation following the White Paper must focus on young people...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 448 c146-7 (Link to this contribution) Turner proposed not a citizens pension but a universal pension for those over 75. We have taken on b...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 448 c201 (Link to this contribution) What representation have the Government made to the Government of the Irish Republic to ensure that ...
James Purnell | 448 c230 (Link to this contribution) We welcome that clarification. We will certainly bear it in mind next time there is a Daily Mail pie...
Nigel Waterson | 448 c222-4 (Link to this contribution) This has been an excellent debate. I particularly enjoyed all the talk about longevity and the amoun...
Subjects
Age
Workplace pensions
Pensions
National insurance contributions
State retirement pensions
Reform
Retirement
State second pension
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