UK Parliament / Open data

Education and Adoption Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Thursday, 5 November 2015, in the House of Lords.
Lords committee stage first day. Clauses 1-5 agreed.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
765 cc381-444GC 
Session
2015-16
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Education and Adoption Bill 2015-16. Brought from the Commons.
Wednesday, 16 September 2015
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Geddes | 765 c381GC (Link to this contribution)

If there is a Division in the Chamber, which is exceedingly unlikely, the Committee will adjourn ...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c381GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Watson of Invergowrie

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 6, leave out “coasting ...


Show all contributions (116)
Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 cc381-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to address the first group of amendments on the Marshalled List. In moving Amend...

Baroness Massey of Darwen | 765 cc384-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before I speak to the amendments, I must apologise to the Committee because I have to l...

Lord Addington | 765 cc386-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these amendments concern the idea of what is coasting. Somewhat late in the day, the Go...

Lord Moynihan | 765 c387GC (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. I offer my apologies for not speaking indepe...

Lord Addington | 765 cc387-8GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord for his support and appreciate that even he cannot be in two places at onc...

Baroness Morgan of Huyton | 765 cc388-9GC (Link to this contribution)

I also give my apologies, as I have to go to a charity reception at 3.40 pm and will not be able ...

Baroness Perry of Southwark | 765 cc389-390GC (Link to this contribution)

Briefly, I support what the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan, has just said. It is practical common se...

Baroness Massey of Darwen | 765 c390GC (Link to this contribution)

Would the noble Baroness not accept that some schools do neglect sport, the arts and social skill...

Baroness Perry of Southwark | 765 c390GC (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. That is why we have Ofsted, which picks these things up. It is my firm belief that sc...

Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 765 cc390-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was not planning to intervene at this stage but I would like to ask the Minister to a...

Lord Knight of Weymouth | 765 cc391-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as has become fashionable, I will start with an apology that I have to leave early and ...

Lord Lucas | 765 c393GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I enjoy listening to the noble Lord, Lord Knight, much more in opposition than I ever d...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 cc393-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to add a few words. I have been very sympathetic with quite a lot of what ...

Lord Lucas | 765 c395GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, reminds me that there are some very interesting variati...

Lord Nash | 765 cc395-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to the group containing Amendments 1, 2, 5, 7 and 9, which concern coastin...

Lord Knight of Weymouth | 765 c397GC (Link to this contribution)

How will the progress measure account for churn in schools that have a big churn in population be...

Lord Nash | 765 cc397-8GC (Link to this contribution)

I think—although I will write to the noble Lord—that it will not be calculated; they will not be ...

Lord Addington | 765 c398GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if the primary definition here is based on academic achievement, where does it place ot...

Lord Nash | 765 c398GC (Link to this contribution)

The reason why it is so important in primary—and it is again based on pupils making the right lev...

Baroness Massey of Darwen | 765 c399GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I fully appreciate what the Minister says about clarity and transparency, but going bac...

Lord Nash | 765 cc399-400GC (Link to this contribution)

Of course, Ofsted is focused heavily on a broad and balanced curriculum. As the noble Baroness, L...

Baroness Morgan of Huyton | 765 c400GC (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has just outlined that the RSCs will take account of Ofsted judgments. Perhaps it wo...

Lord Nash | 765 cc400-1GC (Link to this contribution)

I assure the noble Baroness that dialogue with Ofsted does take place. I know that at least one r...

Baroness Massey of Darwen | 765 c401GC (Link to this contribution)

I have to tell the noble Lord that the jockeys from that racecourse used to wine and dine at the ...

Lord Nash | 765 c401GC (Link to this contribution)

I knew the noble Baroness and I had a lot in common and now we have even more. As she knows, I ag...

Lord Addington | 765 c402GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we are at the point of clarification and probing here, and sport is just an example. Th...

Lord Nash | 765 cc402-3GC (Link to this contribution)

We should discuss this and I am very happy to do that. It is taken into account by Ofsted and wil...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 c403GC (Link to this contribution)

The Minister said that the programme is going to be very focused on high-performing schools. Can ...

Lord Nash | 765 c403GC (Link to this contribution)

If you are a high-performing school with an APS of entry of 30 average pupils, and you are bound ...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 c403GC (Link to this contribution)

If I may say so, high-performing schools achieve the five A* to C grades perfectly easily and wil...

Lord Nash | 765 c403GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness is completely right. I have not made myself clear. The progress measure comes ...

Lord Lucas | 765 c403GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, that is not the way the draft reads. It says: if fewer than 60% of school pupils achiev...

Lord Nash | 765 cc403-5GC (Link to this contribution)

It applies only to 2014 and 2015—and if it is not clear, we will make it clear in the future.

...
Lord Knight of Weymouth | 765 c404GC (Link to this contribution)

Will the department record the interventions made as they are made on coasting schools against th...

Lord Nash | 765 c404GC (Link to this contribution)

When we formally intervene, we already publish that information, so it will be in the public doma...

Lord Lucas | 765 c404GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, despite my noble friend’s fine efforts, I have been unable to torture the words of the ...

Lord Nash | 765 c406GC (Link to this contribution)

We could go on like this for a long time, but I will talk to the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, outside....

Lord Lucas | 765 c406GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Minister is already writing me a letter full of statistics, so I hope that he can i...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 c406GC (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister send the letter round to everybody who has participated in the debate?

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 cc406-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to an excellent and very informed debate. ...

Lord Nash | 765 c408GC (Link to this contribution)

I would be delighted to write to the noble Lord.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c408GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that. I referred earlier to the fact that he talked about the need for c...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 765 c409GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

3: Clause 1, page 1, line 15, leave out “may” and i...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 765 cc409-410GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have grouped Amendment 3 with Amendment 8, both of which concern parliamentary scruti...

Lord Addington | 765 c410GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, primarily because, having looked at the end of my ...

Lord Nash | 765 cc410-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 3 and 8 tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hun...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 765 c412GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for that response; he said that he would consider this between Comm...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c412GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Watson of Invergowrie

4: Clause 1, page 1, line 16, at end insert—

<...
Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 cc412-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 4 touches on an issue that I dare say will be explored in greater depth when ...

Lord Nash | 765 c413GC (Link to this contribution)

We had some banter on the floor of the House on the question of democracy. The democracy in this ...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 cc413-4GC (Link to this contribution)

I have to say that a number of people I have spoken to were concerned by the Minister’s comment o...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 c414GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendment asks that the governing body informs the parents that the school has been...

Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 765 c415GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I take a slightly different view. I shall be brief. I am quite sure that the Government...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 765 c415GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord was right when he noticed that I would be responding to this amendment. ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 765 c415GC (Link to this contribution)

I note what the noble Baroness said about schools and Ofsted inspections but I have certainly com...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 765 c415GC (Link to this contribution)

I hope that the noble Lord will be pleased to know that I was going to go on to say that, in view...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c416GC (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to hear what the noble Baroness has said. She couched it in terms of “considering”...

Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 765 c416GC (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree, and I said in my speech that I expected parents to be given the information a...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c416GC (Link to this contribution)

I take on board that point and, yes, there will be various levels of knowledge of education, or i...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c417GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Watson of Invergowrie

6: Clause 1, page 1, line 16, at end insert—

<...
Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 cc417-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I move Amendment 6, in my name and that of the noble Baroness, Lady Massey of Darwen. I...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 cc419-420GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have some sympathy with what the noble Lord, Lord Watson, said about teacher recruitm...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 765 cc420-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Watson, is right that the recruitment and retention of high-qualit...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c421GC (Link to this contribution)

I welcome what the Minister has said. I am not suggesting that the two are mutually exclusive, bu...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 765 cc421-2GC (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. We are seeing growing collaboration. The noble Lord is right that we are looking at t...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 cc422-3GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her remarks. I certainly welcome the fact that she has acknowledged the ...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 765 c423GC (Link to this contribution)

Through the metric that we have discussed, when a school would be considered to be coasting, teac...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c423GC (Link to this contribution)

I think that we have covered the issues that I hoped we would cover. With that in mind, I beg lea...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 cc423-4GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Watson of Invergowrie

10: Clause 2, page 3, line 10, at end insert—

...
Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 cc424-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we now move on to the question of performance standards and safety warning notices—in t...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 cc425-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment picks up an issue which we Liberal Democrats have been worried about som...

Lord Nash | 765 cc426-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak to Amendment 10 regarding the extension of local authority warning notices to a...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 c427GC (Link to this contribution)

If they are going to apply the same standards to academies, why is that not in the Bill?

Lord Nash | 765 c427GC (Link to this contribution)

As I have said, academies are judged by a contract called a funding agreement, which sets out wha...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 765 c427GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not understand why the Government do not want to deal with the issue of maintained...

Lord Addington | 765 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my Amendment 16 addresses this later on. We might even be able to kill two birds with o...

Lord Nash | 765 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

We may bring this up again in Amendment 16, but I cannot really say more than I have already. I w...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

The first thing that I have to say to the Minister is that I am amazed at his comment about the O...

Lord Nash | 765 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

They are failing because we took them over only very recently. As we have already discussed, you ...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

I cannot imagine that they would be inspected that soon. If they have been moved into, effectivel...

Lord Nash | 765 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

If the noble Lord had come on Monday and met the regional schools commissioners, he might have be...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

I look forward to getting that briefing when I am able to attend. That would be helpful. But that...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

I have the Ofsted figures here, which show that for all the maintained mainstream schools the per...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness for those remarks. The Minister referred to the contractual relationsh...

Lord Addington | 765 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Addington

11: After Clause 3, insert the following new Clause—

“R...

Lord Addington | 765 c430GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is an attempt to try to gain a little more clarity about the role of the regional ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 765 cc430-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my Amendment 12 is in this group. The point the noble Lord has raised is highly appropr...

Lord Nash | 765 cc431-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the two new clauses proposed concern the role and remit of regional schools commissione...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 765 c434GC (Link to this contribution)

But, my Lords, that is exactly what is happening in health and social care. Clearly, in governmen...

Lord Nash | 765 c434GC (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that the noble Lord has lost me with a lot of political theory. I am interested in—

Lord Nash | 765 cc434-5GC (Link to this contribution)

If I may finish, I am interested in a practical system which actually works. We believe that we h...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 765 c435GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, that was a quite remarkable speech by the noble Lord. He accuses me of political theory...

Lord Nash | 765 c435GC (Link to this contribution)

As I said, we believe that this is not just devolution but devo max, if you like, to the front li...

Lord Addington | 765 c435GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, enjoyable as that little bit of hack and thrust was, to go back to my amendment, it was...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c436GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Watson of Invergowrie

13: After Clause 3, insert the following new Clau...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 cc436-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Bill removes the right of the school to make any representations against the issuin...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 c438GC (Link to this contribution)

In relation to this amendment, while we have some sympathy with the notion that there should be a...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 765 c438GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 13 and warning notice appeals. The Bill proposes that the go...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c438GC (Link to this contribution)

What period does that cover? Is it just since the regional schools commissioners were established...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 765 c439GC (Link to this contribution)

It is since the academies came in, so it applies to a wider period than since the regional school...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c439GC (Link to this contribution)

If this is all just a distraction, will the Minister tell me what she thinks the role of school g...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 765 c439GC (Link to this contribution)

Obviously, the role of school governors is to hold head teachers to account to ensure that the sc...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c439GC (Link to this contribution)

But do they have no right to comment in situations where warning notices are being issued? This s...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 765 c439GC (Link to this contribution)

No, as I said, any complaints about a decision made by the regional schools commissioner can be d...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 cc439-440GC (Link to this contribution)

I noted the noble Baroness’s remarks that delays and arguments are a distraction to the process o...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 c440GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Sharp of Guildford

14: Clause 5, page 5, line 4, at end insert—

...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 cc440-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 14 replicates the current agreements that local authorities and churches have...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c441GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendment 14. We recognise that church schools have an integral role in the e...

Lord Nash | 765 cc441-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 14, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Storey, the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, and...

Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 765 c442GC (Link to this contribution)

The Minister says he has had discussions with the Roman Catholic Church. Does he recognise that i...

Lord Nash | 765 cc442-4GC (Link to this contribution)

If the noble Lord would let me finish, he would understand that these discussions are at a very e...

Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 765 c444GC (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the Minister for giving these assurances. I was fairly confident that in fa...

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