UK Parliament / Open data

Crime and Courts Bill [Lords]

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 13 March 2013, in the House of Commons, led by Jeremy Browne.
Report stage first day. Government new clause 3, discussed with new clause 2 and Government new schedule 1, debated and added to the Bill. New schedule 1 added to the Bill. Government new schedule 2 debated and added to the Bill. New clause 18 debated and withdrawn. New clause 7, discussed with new clause 17, and Government new clauses 5 and 6, debated and negatived on division. Sitting adjourned.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
560 cc325-420 
Session
2012-13
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Crime and Courts Bill (HL) 2012-13. As amended in Public Bill Committee.
Tuesday, 12 February 2013
Bills
House of Commons
Crime and Courts Bill [HL]: Committee Stage Report
Friday, 8 March 2013
Research briefings
Proceeding contributions
Jeremy Browne | 560 c326 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

John Bercow | 560 c326 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 2—National Crime Agenc...


Show all contributions (146)
Jeremy Browne | 560 c327 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to speak to the amendments and thus begin our deli...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c327 (Link to this contribution)

Let me finish the point first.

There is a duty on the Home Secretary to consult persons aff...

Paul Goggins | 560 c327 (Link to this contribution)

My question is a simple one. Why did the Minister not table new clause 3 in Committee and allow t...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c328 (Link to this contribution)

It seems to me that this is not a very substantive issue; it is a procedural issue. The Governmen...

Mark Reckless | 560 c328 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister describes a substantive and exhaustive process of parliamentary scrutiny. Is he awar...

Jeremy Browne | 560 cc328-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s interest in the matter. I am cautious about getting ahead of o...

Naomi Long | 560 c329 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister will be aware that there are particular arrangements in Northern Ireland for dealing...

Jeremy Browne | 560 cc329-330 (Link to this contribution)

By the time I get to the end of my speech, the hon. Lady will be in no doubt that all Northern Ir...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c330 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way, but I am delivering a substantive passage of my speech, which will be of great i...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 560 c330 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for allowing me to put on the record at the outset the fact that th...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c330 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman and pleased that I gave way, because I share his anguis...

Sammy Wilson | 560 cc330-1 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is quite right that this is a very serious issue in Northern Ireland. We, too, wish ...

Jeremy Browne | 560 cc331-2 (Link to this contribution)

I do not have a speaking note on that point. I, like most Members, have received a number of repr...

Jeremy Browne | 560 cc332-3 (Link to this contribution)

Let me proceed a little and then I will give way.

The table in paragraph 9 sets out the “re...

Mark Reckless | 560 c333 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister clarify whether the two strands of his speech interact? If powers were transfer...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c333 (Link to this contribution)

Although the Met takes the lead, each individual police force is responsible for its own activiti...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 560 c333 (Link to this contribution)

As the Minister outlined the provisions and voiced regret at having to table new schedule 1, the ...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c333 (Link to this contribution)

I think it would be more proper for the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to answer that qu...

Mark Durkan | 560 cc333-4 (Link to this contribution)

I will deal with the questions raised by the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) about...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c334 (Link to this contribution)

It would probably be better if I avoided talking about operational matters with regard to the pre...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 cc334-6 (Link to this contribution)

New clause 3 and the other amendments before the House concern important issues that are fundamen...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c335 (Link to this contribution)

As I have said, the Government have an open mind on this matter. We want to achieve the best poss...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 c337 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister. Perhaps between now and the super-affirmative order coming forward...

Paul Goggins | 560 c337 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is doing an excellent job of highlighting the Government’s inconsistency on ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 cc337-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who knows what he is talking about. He had to take executi...

Sammy Wilson | 560 c338 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman’s point, but does he accept that although the Government ar...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 c338 (Link to this contribution)

I understand that point. As the hon. Gentleman knows, I did two years in Northern Ireland, and I ...

Naomi Long | 560 c338 (Link to this contribution)

When the right hon. Gentleman said that he did two years in Northern Ireland, it sounded more lik...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 cc338-9 (Link to this contribution)

I reassure the hon. Lady that I loved every minute of my time in Northern Ireland and was sorry t...

Mark Durkan | 560 c339 (Link to this contribution)

Does the shadow Minister recognise that when the Bill first emerged in draft, some of us pointed ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 cc339-341 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, because that is the point that I am making. Where is the Norther...

Elfyn Llwyd | 560 cc340-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am in the rather strange position of wanting to support the amendments tabled by the hon. Membe...

John McDonnell | 560 cc342-3 (Link to this contribution)

Let me say to my hon. Friends on the Opposition Front Bench that I am extremely shocked by what h...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c343 (Link to this contribution)

Given all the points the hon. Gentleman is making and that he started his speech by saying that t...

John McDonnell | 560 cc343-5 (Link to this contribution)

I understand where the hon. Gentleman is coming from, but I am not playing party politics with th...

Sammy Wilson | 560 c345 (Link to this contribution)

It is with regret that I see the references to Northern Ireland and the role of the National Crim...

Naomi Long | 560 c345 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that a false interface is being created between terrorism and crim...

Sammy Wilson | 560 cc345-7 (Link to this contribution)

Attempts have been made during the debate to make exactly that distinction, but the hon. Lady is ...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 560 c346 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making his argument so powerfully. Does he agree that this mi...

Sammy Wilson | 560 c346 (Link to this contribution)

That is another way of looking at how to get coverage in Northern Ireland. The Minister cannot si...

Paul Goggins | 560 cc348-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), who spoke with his usu...

Naomi Long | 560 c349 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder whether the right hon. Gentleman would agree that there is another important issue here,...

Paul Goggins | 560 cc349-351 (Link to this contribution)

I compliment my hon. Friend on her ingenuity in seeing two pages ahead in my speaking notes; I wi...

Naomi Long | 560 c351 (Link to this contribution)

I hope I can reassure my right hon. Friend slightly. The Justice Minister is aware of that partic...

Paul Goggins | 560 c351 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that assurance. It is timely to pay tribute to David Ford, th...

Mark Durkan | 560 cc351-3 (Link to this contribution)

Let me begin by saying that if the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) presses ...

Sammy Wilson | 560 c352 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman’s view on policing and the safeguards that are required obviously differs from...

Mark Durkan | 560 cc352-4 (Link to this contribution)

The reluctance is not a reluctance to see the National Crime Agency operate or make a due contrib...

Naomi Long | 560 c354 (Link to this contribution)

I do not doubt for a minute that the hon. Gentleman’s concerns about wanting the NCA to operate i...

Mark Durkan | 560 cc354-5 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady’s point about the discussions and modifications that have already been made proves ...

Paul Goggins | 560 c355 (Link to this contribution)

I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman and his party for all the ri...

Mark Durkan | 560 c355 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome what the right hon. Gentleman says. We have mentioned some of the discussions that have...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 c355 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that his arguments about this particular matter also relate to the...

Mark Durkan | 560 cc355-7 (Link to this contribution)

I fully accept what the right hon. Gentleman says. Our concern is not to make sure that the NCA h...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c357 (Link to this contribution)

Time is short and so, although I will try to give a thorough response, I may be sparing in the nu...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c358 (Link to this contribution)

There is a lot of desire to discuss proceeds of crime in Northern Ireland, so, ironically, the lo...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 560 c358 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister certainly has not offended my sensibilities. He accepts that the Bill is deficient a...

Jeremy Browne | 560 cc358-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, if only because it allows me to clarif...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 c359 (Link to this contribution)

Would the Minister clarify for me, given what my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington ...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c359 (Link to this contribution)

It is interesting; we now do have interest from the Opposition Front Bench.

Jeremy Browne | 560 c359 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, and then I will speak to the amendments in the group.

John McDonnell | 560 c359 (Link to this contribution)

It is important that we hear a response to the question asked by my right hon. Friend the Member ...

Jeremy Browne | 560 cc359-360 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. Let me explain the Government’s position and...

John McDonnell | 560 cc360-1 (Link to this contribution)

Of course that is the case; we all accept the need to protect the public. Until now, customs and ...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c361 (Link to this contribution)

If the Opposition spokespeople have changed their position—

John McDonnell | 560 c361 (Link to this contribution)

They have not changed their position.

Jeremy Browne | 560 c361 (Link to this contribution)

Well, if they have come to see the wisdom of the position adopted by the hon. Member for Hayes an...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c361 (Link to this contribution)

Let me finish the point. [Interruption.] I will give way; I have already done so, and I will do s...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 c361 (Link to this contribution)

It may come as a surprise to the Minister, but part of the purpose of Report is to discuss matter...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c361 (Link to this contribution)

Let me say two things. Nothing in the Government’s position has changed since Committee. There is...

John McDonnell | 560 c362 (Link to this contribution)

This is about exactly what my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn said. This is what we call l...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c362 (Link to this contribution)

I will clarify the fact that the intention of this part of the Bill is very straightforward. Ther...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c362 (Link to this contribution)

Having been told that Labour Whips wanted us to proceed quickly, I give way for the fifth time to...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 c362 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister. He should know that one of our concerns is that police officers sh...

Jeremy Browne | 560 cc362-3 (Link to this contribution)

I received a note because I said to Parliament that the provision applied to NCA employees with o...

Peter Bone | 560 c369 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. You will recall that Wellingborough prison was closed wit...

Lindsay Hoyle | 560 c369 (Link to this contribution)

What I can tell the hon. Gentleman is that the Chair has not been advised of such a sale, but his...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c372 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the schedule be read a Second time.

John Bercow | 560 c372 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 61 to 71, 75, 86 and 88.

Jeremy Browne | 560 cc372-3 (Link to this contribution)

I do not propose to detain the House long on the new schedule and amendments. In essence, they de...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 c373 (Link to this contribution)

I say again to the Minister that this is a really difficult issue for Northern Ireland. It is a b...

Sammy Wilson | 560 c373 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. It is a great pity that the Minister would not g...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 c373 (Link to this contribution)

It does indeed; it creates a tremendous hole in asset recovery provisions. In effect it means—the...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 560 c373 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the shadow Minister will agree that the situation gives gangsters and criminals in Nort...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 560 cc373-4 (Link to this contribution)

This is an extremely serious issue, and I want the Minister to say not just that there is a probl...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c374 (Link to this contribution)

In a way, points or lines of difference are being drawn between the two Front Benches that do not...

Jeremy Browne | 560 cc374-5 (Link to this contribution)

One second.

Our position is clear. In a way, this is a strange debate, in that I am explain...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 560 c375 (Link to this contribution)

That analysis might come back to bite the Minister under another set of circumstances. All I woul...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c375 (Link to this contribution)

The point I am making is that the proposal is not being held to ransom by the UK Government. I ag...

Sammy Wilson | 560 c375 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister not accept, however, that on this issue there is a big difference? The inabilit...

Lindsay Hoyle | 560 c375 (Link to this contribution)

Order.

4.23 pm

Three and a half hours having elapsed since the commencement of procee...

Lindsay Hoyle | 560 c379 (Link to this contribution)

I now have to announce the result of today’s deferred Divisions. In the deferred Division on the ...

David Burrowes | 560 c380 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Lindsay Hoyle | 560 c380 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 120, in clause 41, page...

David Burrowes | 560 cc380-1 (Link to this contribution)

Both new clause 18 and amendment 120 concern sentences for driving over the prescribed limits for...

Jim Shannon | 560 c381 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that in Northern Ireland there are already rules, regulations and laws that address thi...

David Burrowes | 560 c381 (Link to this contribution)

The amendments are intended to enable the Government to conduct a proactive review, which should,...

Rehman Chishti | 560 c381 (Link to this contribution)

I, too, must make a declaration. I was a criminal barrister who both prosecuted and defended.

...
David Burrowes | 560 cc381-5 (Link to this contribution)

I remember briefing my hon. Friend on many occasions. He was a great advocate in courts in Enfiel...

Susan Elan Jones | 560 c382 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to contribute, albeit briefly, to the debate. It is also a great pleasure ...

David Nuttall | 560 cc382-7 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) for her brief but to-the-point contrib...

Stella Creasy | 560 c387 (Link to this contribution)

I speak on behalf of the Opposition on this collection of amendments. The Bill has been called a ...

David Burrowes | 560 c387 (Link to this contribution)

The prosecution may want to push forward a prosecution for careless driving with limited independ...

Stella Creasy | 560 cc387-391 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman makes. That is exactly why we needed to test in Co...

Jeremy Browne | 560 cc391-2 (Link to this contribution)

I will talk mainly about drug-driving because that has been the largest part of our debate, but I...

Stella Creasy | 560 c392 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister respond to the question that I asked him about the expert panel, which has set ...

Jeremy Browne | 560 cc392-5 (Link to this contribution)

No final decision has been made on the precise list of what will be tested for. We are grateful f...

Stella Creasy | 560 c395 (Link to this contribution)

Given the Minister’s open, earnest and welcome admission that he cannot answer the questions rais...

Jeremy Browne | 560 c396 (Link to this contribution)

The Government will publish a revised impact assessment alongside our consultation on the drugs t...

David Burrowes | 560 cc396-7 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the debate on new clause 18. The hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) referred t...

Oliver Heald | 560 c397 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 22, page 17, line 21, at end insert—

‘Part 4A amends the selection ...

Nigel Evans | 560 cc397-8 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendments 10 to 21.

Oliver Heald | 560 cc398-400 (Link to this contribution)

I shall start by speaking to the Government amendments, but I should also like to hear the commen...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 560 cc400-4 (Link to this contribution)

I shall address my remarks to the Government amendments, but also to new clause 7, which deals wi...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 560 c404 (Link to this contribution)

I was about to finish, but I will give way.

Oliver Heald | 560 c404 (Link to this contribution)

Under the Legal Services Act 2007, the legal ombudsman only investigates cases about the service ...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 560 c404 (Link to this contribution)

It was not me who made that suggestion; it came from the legal services ombudsman. So clearly the...

Robert Buckland | 560 cc404-5 (Link to this contribution)

I shall speak briefly in support of a probing proposal, my new clause 17. I listened carefully to...

Jack Straw | 560 cc406-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Jenny Chapman) for her remarks in supp...

Baroness Hoey | 560 c408 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Have you had any message from the Minister for Europe that he wo...

John Bercow | 560 c409 (Link to this contribution)

I have received no such indication from a Minister. The hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) is a...

Oliver Heald | 560 cc409-410 (Link to this contribution)

May I start where the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) left off? I entirely accept that...

Jack Straw | 560 c410 (Link to this contribution)

I have the highest regard for the Lord Chief Justice and, as it happens, for the Lord Chancellor,...

Oliver Heald | 560 c410 (Link to this contribution)

What I am saying is that the new provision was accepted in the other place, with wide acclaim—the...

Yasmin Qureshi | 560 c410 (Link to this contribution)

I do not want to sound repetitious, because I know that this point has been made, but why is what...

Oliver Heald | 560 cc410-1 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, there are unique circumstances in Northern Ireland, as we know, and indeed as we have ...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 560 c411 (Link to this contribution)

In the interests of moving the debate along, I have made it clear that we do not disagree with th...

Oliver Heald | 560 c411 (Link to this contribution)

The point is that these things have not been happening, but they will happen under the Government...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 560 c412 (Link to this contribution)

The Solicitor-General will forgive me for saying that he is repeating himself. My point is that w...

Oliver Heald | 560 c412 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady’s case is compelling in the sense that there are a lot of problems with bailiffs an...

Oliver Heald | 560 c412 (Link to this contribution)

I have failed to persuade the hon. Lady, but I will certainly not make a concession. I hope she w...

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