UK Parliament / Open data

Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Bill [HL]

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Monday, 21 January 2008, in the House of Lords.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
698 c1-56GC 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Bill (HL). (Explanatory Notes HL Bill 7-EN published).
Thursday, 8 November 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2008-0358
Wednesday, 6 February 2008
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c21-2GC (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether that comment comes from our long experience of sharing Bills but on different ...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c22GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend’s amendment. A few years ago I spent rather a long time wandering about th...

Show all contributions (142)
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c15-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all those who contributed to this debate, particularly to my noble friend Lord Cope...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c16GC (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the noble Baroness for what is another valuable bit of artillery. I hope ...
Lord Bach | 698 c20GC (Link to this contribution) We agree that an annual general meeting is a good idea; the issue between us is whether it should be...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c19GC (Link to this contribution) Our Amendment No. 6, if I understand it, is an adaptation of paragraph 12 of Schedule 12 and the sec...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c13GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 3: 3: Schedule 1, page 35, line 6, leave out ““five”” and insert ““three”” Th...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c1-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. A1: A1: Clause 1, page 1, line 5, leave out ““Better Regulation”” and insert “...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 698 c1GC (Link to this contribution) I remind the Committee that, in the event of a Division in the Chamber, the Committee will adjourn i...
Lord Bach | 698 c2-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, regardless of whether she was trying to have some fun, for movi...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c27GC (Link to this contribution) My Amendment No. 12 in this group would provide that the Secretary of State had to undertake consult...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c35-6GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord will glory in that on the next amendment. I am grateful for the comments. I d...
Lord Borrie | 698 c34GC (Link to this contribution) I wanted to support the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, before raising the point about the similar amen...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c40-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 22: 22: Clause 5, page 3, line 31, at end insert ““, and (d) in a way which al...
Lord Whitty | 698 c43GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment as it is written, rather than everything that the noble Baroness said in fav...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c44GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply. I particularly thank the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for his suppor...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c56GC (Link to this contribution) Hansard should record that general consensus. I have not had a briefing. I would naturally have take...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c53-4GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment to support the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, in her approach to Claus...
Lord De Mauley | 698 c49GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 26: 26: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause— ““Duty to secure comp...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c23-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 9: 9: Clause 4, page 3, line 3, at end insert ““and specifically referred to i...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c22GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 8: 8: Clause 3, page 2, line 5, after ““county”” insert ““, unitary authority”...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c26GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister may be intending to ask the Committee to agree this amendment at this stage, but I woul...
Lord Bach | 698 c26GC (Link to this contribution) I take the noble Baroness’s point completely. Perhaps we may bring back Amendment No. 16 on Report. ...
Lord Bach | 698 c25-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am not in a position to help the Committee very much on the practical way in which this will be de...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c24-5GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that the negative resolution procedure will apply under Amendment No. 16. I was su...
Lord Bach | 698 c15GC (Link to this contribution) This amendment and the next group are welcome in that they provide us with an opportunity to discuss...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c18GC (Link to this contribution) I am disappointed by that. Of course I accept that the Minister has said that guidance will be follo...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c18-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 6: 6: Schedule 1, page 37, line 4, at end insert— ““Annual public meeting (1) ...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c10GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister confirm, therefore, that there is no one on the first board who has any direct expe...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 698 c7-8GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, gives us an opportunity to ask about the lo...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c8GC (Link to this contribution) We support the thoughts of the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee. Having listened to the noble Lord, Lord ...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c12GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is quite right to raise the issue of the number of employees on the board. I was not ...
Lord Borrie | 698 c13GC (Link to this contribution) I am not at all sure of the rightness of the argument of the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson. I am not at a...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c5-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1: 1: Schedule 1, page 34, line 16, at end insert— ““( ) At least 25% of the o...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c6GC (Link to this contribution) First, I declare an interest as a director of various companies, both private and public, at least s...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c2GC (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the Minister agrees that, within the definition of ““better regulation””, you could...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c2GC (Link to this contribution) That is exactly the point that I was going to make: better regulation must encompass deregulation. R...
Lord Bach | 698 c4GC (Link to this contribution) I insist. He put much better than me the advantages of better regulation. I thank the noble Baroness...
Lord Bach | 698 c31-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 17: 17: Schedule 3, page 41, leave out line 39 The noble Lord said: I shall s...
Lord Bach | 698 c32GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I want to add anything to that contribution.
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c32GC (Link to this contribution) I do not mind whether the noble Lord, Lord Cope, or the Minister answers this question. Who is the T...
Lord Bach | 698 c32GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that I gave the right amendments when I spoke earlier. Amendments Nos. 59 to 61 deal with tha...
Lord Bach | 698 c33GC (Link to this contribution) We have been privileged to hear a seminar, albeit a short seminar. As we have my noble friend Lord D...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c33GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 18: 18: Clause 5, page 3, line 29, at beginning insert ““economically, efficie...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c29GC (Link to this contribution) I accept the Minister’s stricture that this is subject to the affirmative resolution procedure. I am...
Lord Bach | 698 c30-1GC (Link to this contribution) The first three amendments in the group, Amendments Nos. 13, 14 and 15, require that any orders in r...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c37-8GC (Link to this contribution) I acknowledge the firm smack I have had from the noble Baroness, Lady Turner of Camden; I will refle...
Lord De Mauley | 698 c38GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 21: 21: Clause 5, page 3, line 31, at end insert ““, and (d) in accordance wit...
Lord De Mauley | 698 c40GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful of the Minister for his response and to my noble friend Lord Hodgson and the noble Lor...
Lord Whitty | 698 c39GC (Link to this contribution) Until my noble friend Lord Borrie intervened with the novel principle that the Government should be ...
Lord Bach | 698 c40GC (Link to this contribution) I begin with Amendment No. 21, which would add further criteria to the LBRO’s objective. Of course, ...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 698 c33GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that Amendment No. 19 is grouped with this amendment. I have to tell the Committee that...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c36GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 20: 20: Clause 5, page 3, line 29, at end insert— ““(positively and proactivel...
Lord De Mauley | 698 c46GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister for his response, which is very helpful. I will consider whether ...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c46-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 25: 25: Clause 5, page 3, line 36, at end insert— ““(c) regulatory activities ...
Lord De Mauley | 698 c44GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 24: 24: Clause 5, page 3, line 36, at end insert— ““(c) regulatory activities ...
Baroness Pitkeathley | 698 c56GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Wednesday.
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c55-6GC (Link to this contribution) I wondered whether the noble Viscount wanted to come back on any of that. I am grateful to him for h...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c50-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 27: 27: Clause 6, page 3, line 38, after ““authorities”” insert ““and police f...
Lord De Mauley | 698 c50GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister for his response, particularly for drawing the attention of Membe...
Lord Bach | 698 c24GC (Link to this contribution) It might be appropriate for me to say at this stage that a government amendment tries to answer this...
Lord Bach | 698 c22GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 3 defines ““local authority”” for the purposes of Part 1. Although the term ““unitary authori...
Lord Bach | 698 c21GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness need not apologise for using the word ““necessary”” a number of times. The Commit...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c26GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that. It is very helpful. We have all made our positions clear, so for the ...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c26-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 10: 10: Clause 4, page 3, line 5, leave out ““or to remove any enactment from ...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c25GC (Link to this contribution) By chance, I am a member of both the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee and the Merits...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c14GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord did not quite put it like that, but that was clearly what he intended. I admit that w...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 698 c15GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord again. There is a Division in the Chamber. We shall resume af...
Lord Bach | 698 c15GC (Link to this contribution) I was just completing my reply to the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson. I should poin...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c16GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord withdraws the amendment, can the Minister answer a point with which we have al...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c16-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5: 5: Schedule 1, page 36, line 29, leave out paragraph 12 and insert— ““(1) A...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c20GC (Link to this contribution) This is a question of trust. The Minister clearly has huge confidence in all those who will hold his...
Lord Bach | 698 c10GC (Link to this contribution) I pause because I am looking at the lengthy CVs of the various members of the board. I am delighted ...
Lord Bach | 698 c10GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Baroness says, that is a relief to me. I know that it will also be a relief to the nobl...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c10-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to everyone who has thrown their various concerns into this ring. I started by saying ...
Lord Borrie | 698 c14GC (Link to this contribution) I accept the technicality, but the body is working in the public area as distinct from the commercia...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c12-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in support of this amendment and to the Minister. I...
Lord Desai | 698 c12GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, was making a point about the method of appointment rather than just th...
Lord Bach | 698 c12GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, I will take it away and consider it. This may be a surprise to the Committee, but we hope that ...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c14GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Borrie, attracted me to his view when he pointed out that, if the members serve...
Lord Borrie | 698 c2GC (Link to this contribution) I oppose the amendment. It may have been tabled—I apologise if I am incorrect—to have a bit of fun a...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c4-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response. This is the beginning of a very long four days—minimum—and th...
Lord Bach | 698 c3-4GC (Link to this contribution) I was telling the Committee that the system that has been set up is complex and local authority regu...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c32GC (Link to this contribution) I may have heard wrongly, but I thought that the Minister said that Amendment No. 64 sorted out my n...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c33GC (Link to this contribution) It is the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury—the First Lord of the Treasury being the Prime Ministe...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c27GC (Link to this contribution) We on the Front Bench are happy to support my noble friend Lord Hodgson’s amendment. He made it clea...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c30GC (Link to this contribution) We support Amendments Nos. 13 and 14 which affect one of the stated aims of the Bill, the aim of con...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c29GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 13: 13: Clause 4, page 3, line 10, leave out ““(including”” and insert ““(but ...
Lord Bach | 698 c27-8GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 4 defines the local authority functions that are within the scope of Part 1 of the Bill. Thes...
Lord Bach | 698 c31GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness decides whether to withdraw her amendment, I shall try to answer the quest...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c31GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s explanation. The last part had not occurred to me. He seemed to be ...
Lord Borrie | 698 c38-9GC (Link to this contribution) I will confine my remarks to opposing the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, on targeting in Amendments No...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c39GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to clash with the noble Baroness, but I hope that the Government will not be tempted by h...
Lord Borrie | 698 c33-4GC (Link to this contribution) I am intrigued by the Chairman’s intervention because, following on from the noble Baroness, Lady Ha...
Lord Desai | 698 c34GC (Link to this contribution) As a complete stranger to these matters, I would have thought that any one of those three words woul...
Lord Bach | 698 c34-5GC (Link to this contribution) Under Clause 5, the LBRO is required to ensure that local authorities carry out their relevant regul...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c34GC (Link to this contribution) I can answer the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, very quickly. Owing to a misunderstanding with the Governm...
Lord Bach | 698 c45-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that Clause 5, and particularly Clause 5(2), is not exciting enough for the noble Viscoun...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c47GC (Link to this contribution) I had not originally thought that I would say anything on this amendment, although I agree with it a...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c48GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment tabled by my noble friend Lord Hodgson which stipulates that regulatory acti...
Lord Bach | 698 c48-9GC (Link to this contribution) If possible, one of my aims is certainly to appease the noble Baroness, but I am not sure that I sha...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c49GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. I am particularly grateful to my noble friend Lord Cope who hammered ...
Lord Desai | 698 c41GC (Link to this contribution) The more I listen to this debate, the more astonished I am at how local authorities carry on. Noble ...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c42-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 22A: 22A: Clause 5, page 3, line 33, after ““out”” insert ““by sufficient numb...
Lord Bach | 698 c43-4GC (Link to this contribution) This amendment addresses the LBRO’s potential role in ensuring that local authorities carry out thei...
Lord Bach | 698 c54-5GC (Link to this contribution) Local authorities have repeatedly requested that the Government clarify their priorities for local a...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c53GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 29: 29: Clause 6, page 4, line 2, at end insert— ““(d) may relate to the prior...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c49-50GC (Link to this contribution) I understand the thrust of what the noble Lord is saying but I was interested in his comment that hu...
Lord Bach | 698 c50GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 26 would give the LBRO an additional duty over local authorities, certifying that wher...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c22-3GC (Link to this contribution) I think that I had better accept it, but it seems to me a peculiar legal fiction to say that the aut...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c21GC (Link to this contribution) I have no choice about what to do with my amendment today. I understand the point of the provision. ...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c25GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister tell the Committee what—forgive the pun—practical arrangements either the departmen...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c25GC (Link to this contribution) I must say, going slightly wider than that—I will be interested to hear the Minister’s reply to my n...
Lord De Mauley | 698 c14-5GC (Link to this contribution) The intention of my noble friend in proposing a reduction in the length of tenure of the ordinary me...
Lord Bach | 698 c17GC (Link to this contribution) The formula that we have adopted in the Bill on the LBRO’s annual report closely follows the legisla...
Lord Desai | 698 c19-20GC (Link to this contribution) I do not have much experience of business meetings, but I know that many annual meetings are a great...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c20-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 7: 7: Schedule 2, page 40, line 4, after ““necessary”” insert ““(whether to LB...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c20GC (Link to this contribution) Would it be open to the LBRO to hold other meetings in public if it so wished?
Lord Bach | 698 c8-9GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, for tabling this amendment, although she will not be surpri...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c11-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 2: 2: Schedule 1, page 34, line 32, at beginning insert ““half”” The noble Lo...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c14GC (Link to this contribution) This is not the public sector; this is a body corporate, as Clause 1 says.
Lord De Mauley | 698 c12GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend. Like the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, and others, he has highlighted an i...
Lord Borrie | 698 c6-7GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, am sympathetic to the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, who mentioned more than once the need for...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c32GC (Link to this contribution) On Amendments Nos. 58 and 64, I should like to ask not so much about the substance as the procedure....
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c32GC (Link to this contribution) As a former Treasury Minister, I can assure the noble Baroness that it is extremely frequent and all...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c31GC (Link to this contribution) It ought to, were it not for the word ““including”” which introduces that section. This is probably ...
Lord Bach | 698 c37GC (Link to this contribution) I hope the noble Lord does not mind me saying so too. My noble friend has it just right. There is a ...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c38GC (Link to this contribution) I have in this group Amendments Nos. 23 and 48, which deal with the same point in Clauses 5 and 13; ...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 698 c36-7GC (Link to this contribution) I listen to this debate very much as an outsider. I am not a local government person, although the L...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 698 c33GC (Link to this contribution) I still have to tell the Committee that if Amendment No. 18 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c45GC (Link to this contribution) On a general point, I have been listening with great interest to these amendments, which are designe...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c47-8GC (Link to this contribution) Following my noble friend Lord Cope of Berkeley, I want to refer to the statutory instruments bit of...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c42GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Desai, that I do not believe economic p...
Lord Bach | 698 c41-2GC (Link to this contribution) I take this opportunity briefly to restate what we expect from the LBRO. As I said, its core aim wil...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c44-5GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment, as can be seen on the Marshalled List. I have suggested two other places wh...
Lord Bach | 698 c52GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee will be grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, for tabling this amendment, speaking...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c52-3GC (Link to this contribution) I began by saying that I was going to do some off-piste skiing, and I did not expect this to be welc...
Subjects
Codes of practice
Business
Delegated legislation
Local government
Public appointments
Small businesses
Regulation
Local Better Regulation Office
Legislation
Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Bill (HL) 2007-08
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