UK Parliament / Open data

House of Lords Reform

Debate on Tuesday, 6 March 2007, in the House of Commons, led by Jack Straw. The answering member was Baroness May of Maidenhead.
House of Lords reform (First day). Debate on motions on the reform of the Upper House.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
457 c1390-488 
Session
2006-07
Department
Leader of the House of Commons
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Simon Hughes | 457 c1420 (Link to this contribution) No, ““predominantly”” clearly does not mean 100 per cent. It means more than 50 per cent., but not 1...
Lord Young of Cookham | 457 c1420 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that in the Liberal vocabulary ““predominantly”” means 100 per cent....

Show all contributions (301)
Simon Hughes | 457 c1419-20 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend knows that I think that he is wrong about that, because in 2003 we argued—as we do no...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1420 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that we have set a slightly higher threshold than the 50 per cent. option p...
Chris Bryant | 457 c1420 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Leader of the House has said that he will not vote only for 50 per cent.—hi...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1420 (Link to this contribution) We argued for a voting system that would have allowed the House to make a succession of preferential...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 457 c1420 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman began with an impressive appeal to the reformers in the House. They were a majori...
John Bercow | 457 c1421 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?
Simon Hughes | 457 c1420-1 (Link to this contribution) No, as I want to make progress. We support a bicameral Parliament, and want a predominantly elected...
Martin Linton | 457 c1420 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Julian Lewis | 457 c1421 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?
Simon Hughes | 457 c1421 (Link to this contribution) No, as I want to make progress. The Leader of the House has made a thoughtful and serious attempt t...
John Baron | 457 c1421 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Simon Hughes | 457 c1421 (Link to this contribution) No, not yet. There is no reason at all why that should be the case. Indeed, democratic legitimacy wi...
Bernard Jenkin | 457 c1422 (Link to this contribution) The convention that this House effectively appoints the Prime Minister is only a convention; it is n...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1421-2 (Link to this contribution) Not for a second. I take exactly the phrase that has been put into the debate by the right hon. and...
George Howarth | 457 c1422 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman, like me, served on the Joint Committee that looked at the conventions of the UK ...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1422 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes two points. The first is that we do not have written down the fact that it ...
George Howarth | 457 c1423 (Link to this contribution) I merely made that point because a few moments ago the hon. Gentleman said that these matters were s...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1422-3 (Link to this contribution) The answer is yes, of course, because we all signed up to the report. The right hon. Gentleman also ...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1424-5 (Link to this contribution) That question was asked earlier—[Interruption.] How do I know? The answer is that people will be fre...
John Baron | 457 c1424 (Link to this contribution) Given that we all agree about the primacy of this Chamber, I find it difficult to understand why any...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1424 (Link to this contribution) I want to make two more points, and then I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman as he has been so pe...
John Baron | 457 c1424 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Simon Hughes | 457 c1423-4 (Link to this contribution) The question of primacy is settled. There was no argument about it in our Committee; not one voice s...
Viscount Thurso | 457 c1426 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree—partly on the principle of having different roles for the two Houses and a...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1426 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely understand the good faith of that and I am one of the great defenders of the counties a...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1426 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman referred to my earlier remarks on this issue, so for further clarification, I sho...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1425-6 (Link to this contribution) I understand the hon. Gentleman’s position. The six names appended to the amendment are only a selec...
John Bercow | 457 c1425 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is so passionate about the purity of his principles that I feel obliged to take h...
Alan Williams | 457 c1428;457 c1427-8 (Link to this contribution) It seems to me that this is quite simple. I have unconventional views about devolution, and I warned...
Andrew George | 457 c1427 (Link to this contribution) Paragraph 1.7 of the White Paper states that"““it would … be up to Parliament … to alter the proport...
Chris Bryant | 457 c1430 (Link to this contribution) I do not want the right hon. and learned Gentleman to get too pious on the subject of the Liberal De...
Alan Williams | 457 c1427 (Link to this contribution) I will be, I hope, commendably brief. I want to address only one real issue. It is right to say that...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1426-7 (Link to this contribution) I am sympathetic to that view. In the second Chamber, the people who come to Parliament could more l...
Clive Efford | 457 c1431 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 457 c1430-1 (Link to this contribution) Alas, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague) and I, both ardent reformers, ...
Clive Efford | 457 c1431 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman. On his last point, does he think that Members...
Helen Goodman | 457 c1455 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?
Helen Goodman | 457 c1455 (Link to this contribution) Surely the hon. Gentleman is not suggesting that the excellent PAC, which he chairs so admirably, is...
Edward Leigh | 457 c1455 (Link to this contribution) Of course I give way to my fellow member of the Public Accounts Committee.
Edward Leigh | 457 c1455-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady can say that, but of course I cannot. I was about to say that this House has minimal c...
Edward Leigh | 457 c1456 (Link to this contribution) Well, it would have to be an anorak from the Liberal party. No sane person takes any interest in wha...
Chris Bryant | 457 c1453-4 (Link to this contribution) The Leader of the House corrects me. That is not to say that a single person has ever approached me ...
Edward Leigh | 457 c1454-5 (Link to this contribution) It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), even though I do not a...
William Cash | 457 c1455 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend about reform in the House of Commons, but does he accept that there is s...
Edward Leigh | 457 c1457 (Link to this contribution) Not now, as I must finish in a moment. Do we really want to have a load of ambitious 30- or 40-some...
Edward Leigh | 457 c1457 (Link to this contribution) I urge the Leader of the House to drop the daft idea of the 15-year term. He should consider the ame...
Pete Wishart | 457 c1459-60 (Link to this contribution) In considering this debate and listening to the many speeches that we have heard today, I am still n...
Helen Goodman | 457 c1457-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in the debate and to follow the hon. Member for Gains...
Edward Leigh | 457 c1457 (Link to this contribution) Even my hon. Friend, one day, may harbour those ambitions.
Jack Straw | 457 c1456 (Link to this contribution) I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the idea came from a former Conservative Chief Whip.
Edward Leigh | 457 c1456-7 (Link to this contribution) That may not be a recommendation. It is still a daft idea. No one can accept it. Why are we cursed ...
Lord Maples | 457 c1435 (Link to this contribution) No, I should like to make progress. I have given way once, and I will probably not do so again. The...
Richard Bacon | 457 c1435 (Link to this contribution) ““The wrong sort of people.””
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 457 c1431-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with that, and in subsequent debates on the subject, I hope that we make that point to the L...
Bill Etherington | 457 c1432-3 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke). As w...
Lord Maples | 457 c1433-4 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Member for Sunderland, North (Bill Etherington) will forgive me if I do not go ...
Tony Wright | 457 c1434 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in what the hon. Gentleman is saying, but he implies that we can have a second Chamb...
Lord Maples | 457 c1434 (Link to this contribution) The second Chamber does not have any power. If it had power, of course it should be elected, but all...
Lord Maples | 457 c1435 (Link to this contribution) I should like to complete my point. The second Chamber will accrue more powers and, at some point, i...
Julian Lewis | 457 c1442 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. and learned Friend give way?
Viscount Hailsham | 457 c1442 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my hon. Friend will forgive me, but I am conscious of time. Many hon. Members have said...
Speaker | 457 c1439 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman’s time is up.
Viscount Hailsham | 457 c1439-41 (Link to this contribution) Lest it be thought that I am approaching this debate on the basis of an undeclared vested interest, ...
Lord Maples | 457 c1435-7 (Link to this contribution) I was going to say that the sort of people who will run for election to the House of Lords, the Sena...
Ben Chapman | 457 c1437-9 (Link to this contribution) The 2005 Labour manifesto requires us to reform the upper Chamber so that it is"““effective, legitim...
Viscount Hailsham | 457 c1441-2 (Link to this contribution) I need to be careful not to get on one of my favourite hobby-horses. I agree with much of what my ho...
John Hayes | 457 c1441 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend is making a powerful case against, to use his father’s words, elect...
Viscount Hailsham | 457 c1441 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend brings me to the exact point that I was about to make. I acknowledge the powerful arg...
Viscount Thurso | 457 c1449 (Link to this contribution) I agree. What happens is extraordinary; I have watched many people, including some members of my own...
Richard Shepherd | 457 c1446 (Link to this contribution) But they cannot get back at me, because I can stand only once. No: accountability must mean a regula...
Richard Burden | 457 c1446-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr. Shepherd), who made a charac...
Viscount Thurso | 457 c1448-9 (Link to this contribution) May I make it clear at the outset of my speech that my preferred option is for us to have a 100 per ...
John Bercow | 457 c1449 (Link to this contribution) Although many peers work exceptionally hard and demonstrate regularly immense expertise, does the ho...
Richard Shepherd | 457 c1444 (Link to this contribution) There is one commanding principle—certainly for me—about the making of laws: those who make the laws...
George Howarth | 457 c1445 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Richard Shepherd | 457 c1445 (Link to this contribution) I will not, if the right hon. Gentleman will forgive me. What those gentlemen thought can be read i...
Clive Efford | 457 c1442-4 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House on his handling of the subject and on tu...
Chris Bryant | 457 c1452-3 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The hon. Gentleman makes my point for me. The most extraordinary point—I find it odd that i...
Chris Bryant | 457 c1451-2 (Link to this contribution) I am more than delighted to follow the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John T...
Viscount Thurso | 457 c1452 (Link to this contribution) I have a technical point for the hon. Gentleman. Peers may take leave of absence, which means that t...
John Hayes | 457 c1450 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. Let me be clear: he is saying that he wants Lords who spe...
Viscount Thurso | 457 c1450-1 (Link to this contribution) If they are elected, they will be highly democratically accountable—a point that I will come to. Th...
John Hayes | 457 c1450 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Viscount Thurso | 457 c1450 (Link to this contribution) Very briefly; I think that I have no overtime left.
Viscount Thurso | 457 c1450 (Link to this contribution) I completely agree with the Leader of the House. I therefore come to the only option left: an elect...
Jack Straw | 457 c1449;457 c1449-50 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not also agree that having a unicameral Parliament is particularly dangerous...
Nigel Griffiths | 457 c1488 (Link to this contribution) The debate is about whether a repeat election would challenge the primacy of the House of Commons an...
Tom Levitt | 457 c1487-8;457 c1488 (Link to this contribution) On the 15-year term, does my hon. Friend accept that Members of the House of Commons become accounta...
Nigel Griffiths | 457 c1486-7 (Link to this contribution) There were many thoughtful and enlightened contributions among the 23 Back-Bench speeches that were ...
Shailesh Vara | 457 c1485-6 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that, for the reasons I gave earlier, I will not. I have only two or three minutes left,...
Lord Spellar | 457 c1485 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Shailesh Vara | 457 c1485 (Link to this contribution) Anyone who knows even the slightest bit about proportional representation would agree that the list ...
Shailesh Vara | 457 c1485 (Link to this contribution) The individuals will be nominated by the political parties and they will be drawn from a list. I lea...
Jack Straw | 457 c1485 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to be criticised on what we have proposed, but not on what we have not proposed. Will the...
Nigel Griffiths | 457 c1488 (Link to this contribution) My voting intentions will be to secure the objectives of the Government. If I achieve that, I can ho...
Bernard Jenkin | 457 c1478 (Link to this contribution) I put it to my hon. Friend that the fact that Ministers sit in the House of Lords and could sit in i...
John Bercow | 457 c1477-8 (Link to this contribution) My starting point is that unicameralism equals monopoly and that monopoly spawns arrogance. The anti...
Bernard Jenkin | 457 c1476-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not think for a minute that that is the system that we will finish with in the long term. There...
John Bercow | 457 c1476 (Link to this contribution) How does my hon. Friend suppose that the point that he has just made is consistent with the point ab...
Lord Cormack | 457 c1479 (Link to this contribution) As always, my hon. Friend makes a passionate, persuasive and eloquent speech. He is a man of real lo...
John Bercow | 457 c1478-9 (Link to this contribution) The problem that underlies my hon. Friend’s thesis is that he is not prepared to consider the possib...
Bernard Jenkin | 457 c1475-6 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that. Polls upon polls have shown the public to believe that the upper House is doin...
Bernard Jenkin | 457 c1474-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr. Love) mentioned public opinion, but I am not sure that there is a ...
Andrew Love | 457 c1472-4 (Link to this contribution) I start by congratulating my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House, who, sadly, is no longer in ...
John Bercow | 457 c1483 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is an immensely perspicacious and intelligent fellow, but when he says what he ha...
David Howarth | 457 c1483 (Link to this contribution) That is a good question; it shows the fundamental weakness of any appointments system, which is why ...
Shailesh Vara | 457 c1483-4 (Link to this contribution) This is the first time that I have spoken from the Front Bench in a substantive policy debate, so ma...
David Howarth | 457 c1483 (Link to this contribution) I am fully aware of the dangers, but sometimes one has to vote against things that stand in the way ...
Tom Levitt | 457 c1484 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
John Bercow | 457 c1479-80 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that there is a problem with that. I would like to have had further and better reform...
Tom Levitt | 457 c1481-2 (Link to this contribution) Why does the hon. Gentleman assume that the appointed Chamber has to be based on some sort of centra...
David Howarth | 457 c1480-1 (Link to this contribution) I have come to a conclusion that is similar to that of the hon. Member for Buckingham (John Bercow);...
Julian Lewis | 457 c1483 (Link to this contribution) In light of the hon. Gentleman’s earlier remonstrations about the problems of making appointments, h...
David Howarth | 457 c1482 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is suggesting an election system, but with functional rather than geographical co...
Pete Wishart | 457 c1460-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for mentioning that poll. The reason why the public responded to...
Robert N Wareing | 457 c1463-4 (Link to this contribution) That is not the only example of the overweening power of the Executive to which I refer. It applies ...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1464 (Link to this contribution) We should always look outside our own country and the hon. Gentleman is right in what he says. Howev...
Jack Straw | 457 c1463 (Link to this contribution) A very long time ago. It is far better for examination to take place in the new and much improved Pu...
Robert N Wareing | 457 c1463 (Link to this contribution) I must say that I have my doubts about that. I thank my right hon. Friend for his intervention, but ...
Jack Straw | 457 c1463 (Link to this contribution) But the difference is that Bills in the other place are examined on the Floor of the House, whereas ...
Robert N Wareing | 457 c1462-3 (Link to this contribution) In a debate in this place on 1 February 1999, I made it perfectly clear that I was in favour of unic...
Jack Straw | 457 c1463 (Link to this contribution) I fully accept that it is the job of this place as well as the other place to hold the Executive to ...
Robert N Wareing | 457 c1464 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate what the hon. Gentleman says, but the fact remains that Ministers are still accountable...
Robert N Wareing | 457 c1465 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a sedentary quip; he is known for his sense of humour. We have got to be s...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1469 (Link to this contribution) I have no doubt that the hon. Lady is right about her statistics, but she ignores the central point,...
Fiona Mactaggart | 457 c1469-70 (Link to this contribution) There is not the kind of majority that there used to be, but there is still a predominance that does...
Andrew George | 457 c1470-2 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart). I missed her earlier seden...
Lord Cormack | 457 c1465-7 (Link to this contribution) It is a delight to follow the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Mr. Wareing), who spoke, as alw...
Oliver Heald | 457 c1467 (Link to this contribution) Cannot my hon. Friend see that we in this House should cherish democracy? If we are to do away with ...
Lord Cormack | 457 c1467 (Link to this contribution) That is the sort of knee-jerk reaction that led to the abolition of the Greater London council, agai...
Jack Straw | 457 c1390 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House supports the principle of a bicameral Parliament."
Jack Straw | 457 c1390-1 (Link to this contribution) It is 98 years sincere a wholly hereditary House of Lords plunged the nation into one of its worst e...
Speaker | 457 c1390 (Link to this contribution) With this we may take the following motions: Options for Reform of Composition: No.1—"That this Hous...
Jack Straw | 457 c1391 (Link to this contribution) I shall shortly come on to our proposals for composition and the role of the statutory appointments ...
John Redwood | 457 c1391 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman explain how, under his proposals, a serving Prime Minister could be co...
Jack Straw | 457 c1392 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is correct that that is a key part of the central argument. If he will allow me, I sh...
Chris Mullin | 457 c1391-2 (Link to this contribution) On legitimacy, did my right hon. Friend read the remarks made by Lord Kingsland on 7 November 2006? ...
Jack Straw | 457 c1392 (Link to this contribution) I do not for a second accept the first part of what the hon. Gentleman says. There are many possible...
John Baron | 457 c1392 (Link to this contribution) Given that the Government’s model still leaves enormous powers of patronage with party managers, wou...
Lord Beith | 457 c1392 (Link to this contribution) Returning to the remarks of the hon. Member for Sunderland, South (Mr. Mullin), what would be the po...
Jack Straw | 457 c1392 (Link to this contribution) It is right to ask that, and in my judgment it is perfectly possible to put in place safeguards to p...
Jack Straw | 457 c1393 (Link to this contribution) No, if the hon. Gentleman will excuse me. Tomorrow night, I shall vote for a 50 per cent. elected, ...
Bernard Jenkin | 457 c1393 (Link to this contribution) Will the Leader of the House give way?
Jack Straw | 457 c1392-3 (Link to this contribution) I have moved on to the composition of the House because I took interventions. The composition and th...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 457 c1392 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has already moved on to the composition of the House. Should we not be spending...
Jane Kennedy | 457 c1394 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. He has looked at the evidence from around...
Jack Straw | 457 c1394 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to my right hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Jane Kennedy) and then...
Jack Straw | 457 c1394 (Link to this contribution) I will deal with that point. I know that my hon. Friend has read the royal commission report and the...
David Clelland | 457 c1394 (Link to this contribution) If we had a hybrid House—the worst of all possible options—would my right hon. Friend care to specul...
Jack Straw | 457 c1394 (Link to this contribution) I agree that we should learn from that experience and we have done so, because there are no proposal...
Lord Cormack | 457 c1394 (Link to this contribution) Will the Leader of the House give way on that point?
Tom Levitt | 457 c1395 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend confirm that under any of the models that include elected members for the ...
Jack Straw | 457 c1395 (Link to this contribution) What I think will be at stake in those elections is representation of part of the second legislative...
Jack Straw | 457 c1396 (Link to this contribution) I do confirm that. My hon. Friend is right to say that it would give legitimacy to their position in...
Lord Cormack | 457 c1395 (Link to this contribution) The Leader of the House knows full well that that Hansard Society survey also showed that more than ...
Jack Straw | 457 c1394-5 (Link to this contribution) I wish to make some progress, but I will give way to the right hon. and hon. Gentlemen shortly, if t...
David Curry | 457 c1395 (Link to this contribution) If this House votes for a House of Lords that is substantially elected and that takes the form of le...
Jack Straw | 457 c1395 (Link to this contribution) My view is that we can establish the rules about the nature of the operation of the other place. Eve...
Jack Straw | 457 c1396 (Link to this contribution) Straw: I need to make progress, as many other hon. Members want to get in. It is the issue of legit...
Malcolm Rifkind | 457 c1396 (Link to this contribution) Will the Leader of the House give way?
Andrew George | 457 c1397 (Link to this contribution) Will the Leader of the House give way?
Jack Straw | 457 c1397 (Link to this contribution) I am going to make some more progress. Two parallel processes have been undertaken over the past ye...
Jack Straw | 457 c1396-7 (Link to this contribution) It might, and I shall develop the point in a moment. Such a House might indeed be more assertive, an...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 457 c1396 (Link to this contribution) Does the Leader of the House agree that the House of Lords has perfectly good powers at present? Its...
Jack Straw | 457 c1396 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree for a second that they are illegitimate, and I have never suggested that or used that...
Malcolm Rifkind | 457 c1396 (Link to this contribution) If the Leader of the House believes that appointed Members are illegitimate, why is he recommending ...
Jack Straw | 457 c1402 (Link to this contribution) I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Eltham (Clive Efford).
Jack Straw | 457 c1401 (Link to this contribution) I am going to make some more progress. An additional reason why my preference is for a 50 per cent....
Jack Straw | 457 c1401 (Link to this contribution) No, I want to make some progress, if I may. The current House of Lords is justifiably commended for...
William Cash | 457 c1401 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Jack Straw | 457 c1401 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I can, and I will spell out in more detail for my hon. Friend where we are on the method of ele...
Anne Begg | 457 c1401 (Link to this contribution) I ask my question from a genuine desire to know the answer. As someone who would like to abolish the...
Julian Lewis | 457 c1403 (Link to this contribution) Will the Leader of the House give way?
William Cash | 457 c1402 (Link to this contribution) In the White Paper, the first-past-the-post system is dismissed on the grounds that the arguments in...
Jack Straw | 457 c1402 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash), as long as he does not ask me about the Eur...
Jack Straw | 457 c1402-3 (Link to this contribution) I certainly do not accept that. Let me spell out that our proposal is not for the current system in ...
Jack Straw | 457 c1402 (Link to this contribution) I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Mr. Wareing), who is straining at...
Robert N Wareing | 457 c1402 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend. I want to explain what occurs to me when he refers to the appointment ...
Jack Straw | 457 c1402 (Link to this contribution) I ask my hon. Friend to hear me out. The same issue applies when it comes to whether the public had ...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1408 (Link to this contribution) I shall make progress before giving way. I have already accepted a number of interventions. Turning...
Speaker | 457 c1408 (Link to this contribution) Order. I suspect, too, that it is a very good job that I did not quite hear it.
Jim Cunningham | 457 c1407 (Link to this contribution) If the right hon. Lady’s proposal is accepted and there are direct elections and manifestos, would w...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1407 (Link to this contribution) There is no suggestion that the Parliament Acts should be changed or removed.
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 457 c1407 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend confirm that no one is proposing any reform that would allow legislation t...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1407-8 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right. It is important that the House of Lords should...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1408 (Link to this contribution) Yes, under the Government’s proposals 50 per cent. of the new peers would be elected, but the Govern...
Chris Bryant | 457 c1408 (Link to this contribution) I sympathise with some of the right hon. Lady’s arguments, which is why I would prefer either an 80 ...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1408-9 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. A vote of no confidence should be held in the Commons, n...
Mike Hall | 457 c1410 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for giving way on that point. In her earlier comments, she said...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1410 (Link to this contribution) I have not had that discussion yet with any members of my party, but I do want to see an electoral s...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1409-10 (Link to this contribution) I shall make further progress. I understand that some people take the view that the reformed House ...
Viscount Hailsham | 457 c1409 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has made it plain, and I agree, that this is not a matter for a referendum, but...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1409 (Link to this contribution) Yes. As my right hon. and learned Friend knows better than I, with his long experience, constitution...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1409 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady knows that in the discussions between the parties there was extensive consensus ...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1409 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, in relation to the motions on which we will vote tomorrow night, the questions that we wi...
Julie Kirkbride | 457 c1410 (Link to this contribution) I am reflecting on the proposals to allow an elected element into the House of Lords. Given my right...
Jack Straw | 457 c1403-4 (Link to this contribution) No, I am coming to the end of my remarks. There are two limbs to the case of those who argue agains...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1404 (Link to this contribution) The other place has a long history and a proud record of providing a check on the powers of Governme...
Bernard Jenkin | 457 c1404 (Link to this contribution) May I put to my right hon. Friend the point that I wished to make to the Leader of the House? By any...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1404-5 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend makes that point, I cannot help but think about what happens in Canada, where the ...
Brian Binley | 457 c1405 (Link to this contribution) If constitutional matters are not matters for referendums, what are?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1405 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend has a predilection for referendums, I am sure that he will be able to find several...
Lord Blunkett | 457 c1405 (Link to this contribution) May I take the right hon. Lady back to the point that she made about the convention of the House of ...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1405-6 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to confirm to the right hon. Gentleman that I was not suggesting what he has inferred fro...
Lord Cormack | 457 c1406 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1406 (Link to this contribution) I will, in just a moment—[Interruption.] I was wondering how long it would be. We want to help the L...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1406 (Link to this contribution) No, it is not, and I would say to hon. Members that when we discuss and consider primacy, it is impo...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 457 c1406 (Link to this contribution) Suppose that the right hon. Lady had her way and the House agreed to change the composition of the L...
Lord Cormack | 457 c1406 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. On the one hand, she says that she w...
John Redwood | 457 c1407 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend share any of my distaste for the idea of regional lists, using European bo...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1406 (Link to this contribution) I want the House of Lords to achieve greater democratic legitimacy, and I do not intend to go over m...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 457 c1406 (Link to this contribution) Is it not one of the cardinal principles of our constitution that the Government are responsible to ...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1407 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman’s last point. I also agree that the idea that a lot of vote...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1407 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to say to my right hon. Friend that I will come to the issue of the list system for elect...
David Howarth | 457 c1407 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Lady agree that the mandate idea—the idea that electors read party manifestos, a...
Julian Lewis | 457 c1414 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. Accepting that this Chamber may have more power than the othe...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1414 (Link to this contribution) I have no difficulty with the concept of tension within the democratic process, as it leads to bette...
John Bercow | 457 c1414 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
George Howarth | 457 c1417 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, the second Chamber must have the right to question and to revise. My second point, which ha...
Richard Burden | 457 c1416 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend seems to be missing the point that one House can have the final say. That is wh...
George Howarth | 457 c1415-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs. May), who made a very good job...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1414-5 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to my hon. Friend, but I have said that I will not take any more interventions. The sta...
George Howarth | 457 c1416 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an interesting point and, to be fair to him, he is consistent: he has, I think,...
John Redwood | 457 c1418 (Link to this contribution) How many letters has the hon. Gentleman had from people saying, ““Please vote to have a lot more ele...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1418 (Link to this contribution) The answer is that this issue does not, of course, come ahead of health, education and housing. Howe...
Lord Tyrie | 457 c1418 (Link to this contribution) Was not the mistake of 2003 that a lot of people allowed the best to be the enemy of the good and en...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1418 (Link to this contribution) Let me deal with that point head-on. Our party has had a consistent position on this issue in many o...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1417-8 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Member for Knowsley, North and Sefton, East (Mr. Howarth) made a perfectly good theor...
Andrew George | 457 c1419 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the reasons for the outcome in 2003 was that we had put the ca...
Jack Straw | 457 c1419 (Link to this contribution) I wish to press the hon. Gentleman on the point that was raised by the hon. Member for Chichester (M...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1419 (Link to this contribution) On all the evidence, there is a small number of my colleagues in the Lords and three of my colleague...
Lord Cormack | 457 c1418-9;457 c1418 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will accept that I was not elected on a manifesto that talked about 80:20, but do...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1410 (Link to this contribution) I ask my hon. Friend to wait a moment. There is indeed an issue about the election of extremist part...
Jack Straw | 457 c1411 (Link to this contribution) At the moment, the independent Appointments Commission under Lord Stevenson assesses the merits and ...
Pete Wishart | 457 c1411 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1411 (Link to this contribution) That still leaves 30 per cent. of the upper House being appointed as party political Members based o...
Pete Wishart | 457 c1412;457 c1411-2 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Lady agree that there is something very wrong with this idea that we require the...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1411 (Link to this contribution) I am taking a lot of interventions, but I have said that I will give way to the hon. Gentleman in a ...
William Cash | 457 c1412 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend accept that, in 2005-06, 170 life peers who were non-Law Lords voted in fe...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1412-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend provides some telling statistics for the House’s benefit. The Leader of the House li...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1412 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman was probably longing to make that intervention, but I suggest that he actually li...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1413 (Link to this contribution) I hoped that I had explained the reason for my belief that we should hold elections for the substant...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1413 (Link to this contribution) I share the hon. Lady’s concerns. It is unfortunate that the votes will be held when Northern Irelan...
Julian Lewis | 457 c1414 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1414 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, I can—[Interruption.] The primacy of this House does not come simply from the fact that its ...
Lord Blunkett | 457 c1413 (Link to this contribution) This point is central to our constitution, which, unlike that of France or the United States, embodi...
Pete Wishart | 457 c1400 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to disappoint the right hon. Gentleman but my question is not about bishops. I want to ta...
Jack Straw | 457 c1400 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has a particular view on that matter although I do not think the point was a part...
William Cash | 457 c1400 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Jack Straw | 457 c1400-1 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman allow me to make progress? There was agreement on issues such as breaking t...
Jack Straw | 457 c1399-400 (Link to this contribution) I need to make progress, because I have already given way about a dozen times. There was agreement ...
Julian Lewis | 457 c1399 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Jack Straw | 457 c1400 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a second. I know that the hon. Gentleman wants to ask me about the bishops—[Inter...
Pete Wishart | 457 c1400 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way on that point?
George Howarth | 457 c1399 (Link to this contribution) In view of my right hon. Friend’s response to the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Sir Nicholas Wintert...
Jack Straw | 457 c1399 (Link to this contribution) I fully accept what the hon. Gentleman says, but he will also recognise that at paragraph 61, which ...
Jack Straw | 457 c1398-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree with part of what my hon. Friend says. I do not agree with the implication that we have some...
Nicholas Winterton | 457 c1399 (Link to this contribution) As a member of the Joint Committee on Conventions, I think that it is important that the House is aw...
Jack Straw | 457 c1398 (Link to this contribution) That was a shorthand way of saying what we said in respect of the Cunningham 2 report—that we would ...
Ian Lucas | 457 c1398 (Link to this contribution) Is not the difficulty that our constitutional settlement is of course unwritten and my right hon. Fr...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1398 (Link to this contribution) In a recent interview in The House Magazine the right hon. Gentleman said that, assuming that there ...
Jack Straw | 457 c1398 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may be right about that. I said at paragraph 22 of the Government’s response to t...
Andrew George | 457 c1397-8 (Link to this contribution) Paragraph 4.11 of the White Paper states that"““current conventions are the right ones for a reforme...
Jack Straw | 457 c1397 (Link to this contribution) I give way first to the hon. Member for St. Ives (Andrew George), and then to the right hon. Member ...
William Cash | 457 c1441 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. and learned Friend accept that the House of Lords could—certainly after Second Re...
Clive Efford | 457 c1402 (Link to this contribution) I wonder how the public will exert influence—in the interests of open government and democracy—over ...
Shailesh Vara | 457 c1484 (Link to this contribution) I would like to, but there are time constraints and I am keen to ensure that the Government have the...
Jack Straw | 457 c1392 (Link to this contribution) If Members will forgive me, I shall give way to my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr. ...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1419 (Link to this contribution) I have copies of the right hon. Gentleman’s manifesto, the Conservatives’ manifesto and ours for the...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1411 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, but of course, as he knows, the statutory appointments co...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1411 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. Let us imagine that an appointed Lords would somehow give us a Chamber of enlightened ...
Baroness Hoey | 457 c1413 (Link to this contribution) I shall ask the shadow Leader of the House the question that I would have asked the Leader of the Ho...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 457 c1428-30 (Link to this contribution) The basis of all my strong views on the subject is my belief that we need a stronger Parliament, vis...
Edward Leigh | 457 c1455 (Link to this contribution) No doubt there are rogues and scoundrels, lazy people and good ones in the House of Lords, but a cou...
Simon Hughes | 457 c1485 (Link to this contribution) We have argued for the single transferable vote, not the list system. If there were a list system, i...
Chris Bryant | 457 c1488 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my hon. Friend will tell us how he will vote tomorrow.
Julian Lewis | 457 c1460 (Link to this contribution) How does the hon. Gentleman account for the poll showing that more than 70 per cent. of people think...
Fiona Mactaggart | 457 c1467-9 (Link to this contribution) I want to focus on a simple theme. To borrow the language of the late Robin Cook, democracy is not j...
Jack Straw | 457 c1396 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way first to the right hon. and learned Member for Kensington and Chelsea (Sir Malcolm ...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 457 c1407 (Link to this contribution) First, as is pointed out to me by colleagues, Governments bring forward many things that are not in ...
Chris Bryant | 457 c1416 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is creating something of an Aunt Sally, because the truth is that nobody is pro...
Jack Straw | 457 c1410-1 (Link to this contribution) Let me be clear about this. As the right hon. Lady knows very well, we are not proposing that the pa...
John Baron | 457 c1413 (Link to this contribution) If my right hon. Friend accepts that the second Chamber cannot challenge the primacy of this Chamber...
Jack Straw | 457 c1401-2 (Link to this contribution) I want to deal with the issue of election. There was no agreement in the cross-party group about th...
Subjects
House of Lords
House of Lords composition
Powers
Members
Parliamentary scrutiny
Politics and government
Peers
Reform
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
Back to top