House of Lords Reform

I want to focus on a simple theme. To borrow the language of the late Robin Cook, democracy is not just a process, but a value. It is a value that needs nurturing, and that is ignored at our peril. I am shocked by the fact that the turnout in the 2001 election was the lowest since 1918 and that in the 2005 election, when the present Government were elected, the lowest proportion of the electorate voted for the Government in any election ever. We have a duty to refresh, redesign and renew our democracy, rather than saying that the future of our country, our laws and the way in which our Government are held to account should be decided by people who think that they know best—frankly, that is what a system of appointment tends to achieve. When we consider public appointments, the extent to which certificates and management experience are valued over judgment, common sense, nous and an experience of using public services is quite striking. I am very concerned about many aspects of the situation. People have spoken a lot about the expertise of the other place, but one of the things that I value about hon. Members is the different life experience that those people who have fought elections bring to this job. From miners to personal injury lawyers, there is a wide range of experience. Many Members of this House are as expert in their fields as the much-vaunted experts in another place. The claim that we require appointment to achieve expertise is not well stated. I am worried that the increasing use of Nolan-type appointment procedures for public bodies is diminishing the participation of citizens and political parties in the process. A person applying for a public appointment must admit to membership of a political party, just after admitting to any convictions. The number of people admitting to membership of a political party who have received a public appointment has been going down year on year because of that fact. Being a member of a political party is something of which we should feel proud. It was a long time before I joined a political party, because I was right 100 per cent. of the time, and the Labour party was right only most of the time, and that is the story of this debate. The Leader of the House is absolutely right that in debates on reform, we have consistently said that we wanted an answer that was 100 per cent. right; we want the perfect answer, and we have made the perfect the enemy of the good. I am quite prepared to announce that I will vote for anything from 50 per cent. upwards. I think that 50 per cent. is utter nonsense, but I want the matter settled. I was shocked to hear the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes), who spoke for the Liberal Democrats, redefine ““predominantly”” in the way that he did. His argument was, ““Because I want to keep my ball perfect, I’m not going to vote for an arrangement that will get a result.”” I beg him to speak to his colleagues and think again before the vote tomorrow, because we have to get a result this time. I challenge the assumption, which has been a running theme of this debate, that elections would encourage the other place to challenge the House of Commons. Let us consider what has in the past led the other place to challenge this place. It has challenged the Commons when it disagrees with us. We should be completely clear about the occasions when the other House has voted against the Commons. It is obvious that when this House is run by Labour, the other place votes against us, and when the House of Commons is run by the Conservative party, it does not. The data are underpinned in every way by every piece of research that I could get from the Library. The Government with the largest number of defeats by the Lords was the 1974 to 1979 Labour Government, which had 343 defeats. The lowest number of defeats for a Labour Government was 108; that was immediately after the 1997 elections. I think that the other place felt that it would be a bit embarrassing to defeat us too much after that landslide, so it laid low. To claim that the increased number of defeats of the Labour Government since then reflects the fact that Members of the other place feel more legitimate is absolute nonsense. It has nothing to do with that; it is to do with the fact that the Lords are getting back into their old habits, and nothing else.