House of Lords Reform

My hon. Friend brings me to the exact point that I was about to make. I acknowledge the powerful argument, which he articulated, that an elected second Chamber could replicate the vices that I identified. The amendments that I tabled, which were understandably not selected, try to meet those objections. Mechanisms can be put in place. For example, I would support staggered elections and renewable terms—I do not agree with other hon. Members about that. I would choose the second Chamber by a proportional method other than the list system. I would ensure that Ministers were not Members of the second Chamber to reduce the Executive’s powers of patronage. I am willing to admit that there is a risk along the lines that my hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr. Hayes) expressed, but we must make a choice. If we fail to do our duties, we need at least, in the phrase of my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), to shame ourselves. We should use another Chamber to shame ourselves into performing the duties that we should undertake.