House of Lords Reform

I appreciate what the hon. Gentleman says, but the fact remains that Ministers are still accountable to the representatives in the assembly, who are, in fact, elected at the same time. A substitute is there, as I said, to take the place of someone becoming a Minister. He comes from the constituency to which that Minister belonged. We should reflect very carefully on the merits of that system. We hear new Labour claims that it wants to reform this, that and the other, so let us have a look at that particular reform. Let us have more power in this legislature. We should not be satisfied simply with looking into the House of Lords. My nature tells me that I should go into the Lobby for a 100 per cent. elected House of Lords, but I am not too sure that that is what I am going to do tomorrow night. Quite frankly, I would rather have a second Chamber that is illegitimate so that in a few years’ time when we can get support for a unicameral legislature, it will be easier—much easier—to get rid of the second Chamber. I do not want something that is defensible. It is indefensible—even without hereditary peers. One of the best ways to become a member of the House of Lords is to toe the line in this House and certainly not to worry about conscience—be a sycophant and you will soon get there. ““Hear all, see all and say nowt””, they say in Lancashire, which is one of the best prescriptions for getting into the House of Lords these days. Of course there are some distinguished people there. I am friendly with many members of the other Chamber. Nearly every tea time, I can be found in the Tea Room with three members of the House of Lords. I see that the hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Sir Patrick Cormack) is nodding; he has noticed. I get a lot of information from them about what is going on in the other Chamber.