House of Lords Reform

Well, it would have to be an anorak from the Liberal party. No sane person takes any interest in what MEPs do. The partially open, partially closed system being proposed will ensure that 100 people from the east midlands will go to a cinema in Nottingham to select a few people—who cannot get into this House—to be Members of the House of Lords. That is what the reality will be. No one in this debate has answered the point made 40 years ago by Reggie Maudling that"““The problem of the second Chamber is not so much a potential challenge to us but the fact that it would reflect the political composition of the House, in which case it would be a rubber stamp, or a different political composition, in which case there would be a constant conflict between the two Houses.””—[Official Report, 19 November 1968; Vol. 773, c. 115.]" At present, the House of Lords is a revising Chamber. Its Members make their points sensibly and well and then, after hours of debate, they back down and accede to the elected Chamber. The system works pretty well. No one has given a convincing explanation of what will happen when elected people in the other place say that they have greater democratic legitimacy and refuse to back down. Will the Government invoke the Parliament Act every year, on just about every Bill? What would that do for democracy? I accept that I might lose that argument, and that people really might want elections to the House of Lords. For the moment, let us assume that elections will make this place more vigorous. I do not understand the argument that to ensure that we become more vigorous we must reform the other place, but the elections that are held should be based on the system that people understand. We should have senators for Lincolnshire, or London, or Derbyshire: we do not need them to be elected to represent enormous regions that no one understands. Moreover, it is absurd that people should be allowed to serve for 15 years. Where did that idea come from? Even President de Gaulle, who wanted to be a republican king, did not want to serve for 15 years without an election.