Parliamentary search - Child Poverty Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

716 c237-86GC

Session

2009-10

Department

Department for Work and Pensions

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Child Poverty Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 21 also published. (Lords Minutes).
Thursday, 10 December 2009
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Crawley | 716 c244-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord. I understand his concerns about the establishment of a new advisory body and...

Lord Freud | 716 c269GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis. I will go through the Centre for Social Justice’s ...

Show all contributions (106)

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 716 c252GC (Link to this contribution) The black economy.

Viscount Simon | 716 c272GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very sorry to interrupt. Another Division has been called. We adjourn for another 10 ...

Lord Freud | 716 c270GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for the question. I do not have that figure. I almost have to respond as he wou...

Lord Freud | 716 c278-9GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that. I remain baffled about what Clause 8(2)(b) adds by adding an ill defi...

Lord Freud | 716 c279GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am moving Amendment 30 in order to give us the opportunity to highlight the importance o...

Lord Freud | 716 c240GC (Link to this contribution) 24: Schedule 1, page 18, line 27, at end insert— "( ) Before requesting the Secretary of State to ca...

Lord Freud | 716 c239GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that explanation, but perhaps I may spend a little more time exploring the ...

Baroness Crawley | 716 c241-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Freud, and my noble friend Lord Rea for their contributions. ...

Baroness Crawley | 716 c243GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness says that they are totally different categories. The Box tells me that we would e...

Lord Freud | 716 c237GC (Link to this contribution) 22: Schedule 1, page 18, line 5, at end insert— "( ) the member is unfit for office by reason of mis...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c269GC (Link to this contribution) I know the statistics about what happens to women and to men, but it is also the case that a lone pa...

Lord Freud | 716 c268-9GC (Link to this contribution) I look forward to reading Hansard tomorrow. It is ambitious, but is it the right ambition? Is it a m...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c264-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the comments made by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley. We have said this before...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c255-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a wide-ranging and fascinating debate. I thank the mover of the amendment an...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c252GC (Link to this contribution) Whatever; all of those may come into play, but what it shows is that looking at income levels, even ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c251-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have a lot of sympathy with the amendments but also, I am afraid, some reservations and ...

Lord Rea | 716 c250-1GC (Link to this contribution) What I have to say is very complimentary to what the noble Baroness has just said, and may be slight...

Lord Freud | 716 c262GC (Link to this contribution) 28: Clause 8, page 4, line 11, at end insert ", and ( ) to ensure that the UK appears in the upper h...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c259-60GC (Link to this contribution) I should stress that we support the necessity to consider diet and healthy eating. Health is a key s...

Baroness Crawley | 716 c286GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until 3.45 pm on Wednesday.

Lord Freud | 716 c285-6GC (Link to this contribution) I realise I have to be politically correct in these matters. I was congratulating the Government on ...

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 716 c284-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I did not quite follow what the noble Lord was saying. He was congratulating someone...

Lord Freud | 716 c284GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the intervention of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis. However, that is not the poin...

Lord Geddes | 716 c271GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, a Division has been called in the Chamber. Is the noble Lord just about to finish?

Lord Geddes | 716 c271GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it has been suggested that this would be a convenient moment to break for natural reasons....

Lord Freud | 716 c271GC (Link to this contribution) 29: Clause 8, page 4, line 11, at end insert— "( ) For the purposes of this Part, the definition of ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c270GC (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord arguing that couples should get more than they do currently, or is he saying that ...

Lord Northbourne | 716 c276GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting the noble Lord. I heard what he said but I want to ask a question about...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c276GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we should be clear that the Bill does not create any individual rights for children. That ...

Lord Freud | 716 c276GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to come back to this and I thank the noble Lord for giving way again. Under the Bill, the...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c276GC (Link to this contribution) It seems to me that it could be. We want children to grow up in stable family households, but that d...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c273-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Freud, for his amendments, which seek, first, to focus the de...

Lord Freud | 716 c275GC (Link to this contribution) On a point of clarification, when the Minister referred to Amendment 35, did he mean Amendment 34? I...

Lord Freud | 716 c278GC (Link to this contribution) Thank you again. I am arguing that the Minister has placed a great deal of weight on the word "socio...

Lord Freud | 716 c277GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for his intervention. I am concerned that some noble Lords may be irritated i...

Lord Freud | 716 c278GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for that. However, that has not been the debate indicated by the Minister...

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 716 c277GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has asked some very pertinent questions of the Minister but perhaps I may ask one of ...

Lord Freud | 716 c284GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for his response. I am also conscious of the time; we have had an enjoyable s...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c282-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a brief but interesting encounter around an amendment. We have no disagreement abo...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c279-80GC (Link to this contribution) Could I not suggest to the noble Lord that his amendment is completely redundant, given that the con...

Lord Freud | 716 c280-1GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for her intervention. The importance of this is that work is the main rou...

Baroness Crawley | 716 c239-40GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I go back to the principle that this is an independent advisory body. In our debate on Thu...

Lord Freud | 716 c240-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a common-sense amendment to ensure that the limited resources of the commission ar...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 716 c248-50GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have an amendment in the group and I hope to build on the arguments put forward by the n...

Lord Freud | 716 c244GC (Link to this contribution) 25: Schedule 1, page 18, line 31, at end insert— "(2) All such remuneration, allowances and expenses...

Baroness Crawley | 716 c238-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that I will be able to give the noble Lord the assurances that he is looking for. F...

Lord Freud | 716 c239GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way. It will probably be easier if I enunciate them now rather than ...

Lord Freud | 716 c268GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response and all noble Lords for their contributions to the amendment. ...

Baroness Walmsley | 716 c268GC (Link to this contribution) I did not say it was too ambitious; I said it was ambitious.

Lord Northbourne | 716 c265GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, leaving aside the politics that has been going on about this issue, both noble Baronesses ...

Baroness Massey of Darwen | 716 c265GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Baronesses, Lady Walmsley and Lady Hollis. I wonder whether the noble Lord, L...

Lord Freud | 716 c269-70GC (Link to this contribution) I was not arguing that. There is a difference between the absolute figures and the equivalence figur...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c269GC (Link to this contribution) A few amendments back the noble Lord was arguing exactly—and correctly—the opposite. That is, in the...

Baroness Meacher | 716 c255GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was not anticipating speaking but I will speak briefly in support of these amendments, p...

Lord Freud | 716 c253-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have considerable sympathy with both amendments. It would be a matter of dismay to suppo...

Lord Northbourne | 716 c252-3GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has put her finger on a tremendously important point: increasing income will solv...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 716 c252GC (Link to this contribution) The informal economy.

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 716 c261GC (Link to this contribution) I had spotted that earlier. However, that is two or three years out of date and, for a lot of other ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c261-2GC (Link to this contribution) I am conscious that it is not helpful to get into a dialogue on this. I very much recognise that inc...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 716 c259GC (Link to this contribution) I shall respond briefly because my Amendment 67 may not be called for a little while. I have an ongo...

Lord Freud | 716 c260GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and wish to make a point which goes to the heart of her c...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c276GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I reiterate that the Bill does not create any rights for children individually to pursue a...

Lord Freud | 716 c276-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response but I have to confess that it leaves me more puzzled than whe...

Lord Freud | 716 c275GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister finishes and I respond, my question is: what does "socio-economic disadvantage" ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c279GC (Link to this contribution) That will not do, because the Secretary of State will have had advice from the commission, which wil...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c278GC (Link to this contribution) It cannot be extra protection from the target process because that is in subsection (2)(b); the targ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c284GC (Link to this contribution) That is simply not true. First, it is certainly the case that the non-labour on-wage costs in Europe...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c281GC (Link to this contribution) The answer to the noble Lord’s question why children in self-employed families with the same income ...

Baroness Crawley | 716 c243GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, it would want as holistic a piece of research as possible. Within the limited resources that it...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c242-3GC (Link to this contribution) It may be premature to ask, but does the Minister have any sense of what the commission’s overall bu...

Baroness Massey of Darwen | 716 c243GC (Link to this contribution) I not entirely clear what "subterranean" is, although I think I know what "quick-and-dirty" is. Will...

Lord Freud | 716 c240GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that very clear explanation. On that basis, I beg leave to withdra...

Lord Rea | 716 c241GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment gives us the opportunity to recognise the meticulous research work done by ...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 716 c245-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we come to an important part of the Bill. As we know, in Clause 8, under the heading "UK s...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 716 c245GC (Link to this contribution) 27: Clause 8, page 4, line 11, at end insert ", and ( ) for the purpose of ensuring as far as possib...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c243GC (Link to this contribution) They are totally different categories.

Lord Freud | 716 c244GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for that answer. I pick up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Rea...

Lord Freud | 716 c244GC (Link to this contribution) This is a very simple amendment. It is self-evident what it is trying to achieve. For better or for ...

Lord Freud | 716 c245GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response. However, the context in which we are discussing transparency...

Baroness Crawley | 716 c239GC (Link to this contribution) My immediate response to the noble Lord is that those Acts may not be talking about advisory bodies—...

Lord Freud | 716 c237-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as noble Lords will know, it is with some regret from my perspective that we do not have t...

Lord Freud | 716 c269GC (Link to this contribution) From memory, I think the figures showed that a lone female parent’s income declines by 28 per cent, ...

Baroness Walmsley | 716 c264GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Freud, that this country should be aiming at the well-being of eve...

Lord Freud | 716 c264GC (Link to this contribution) If one were to ask most voters whether they would prefer to hit the child poverty target or to be nu...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c265-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Freud, for tabling this amendment, which has given us the cha...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c269GC (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right. We know that divorce impacts on men and women very differently. However, i...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c270GC (Link to this contribution) I know that we will come back to this, so I will not prolong it much. In the figures that the noble ...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 716 c254-5GC (Link to this contribution) I found the Rowntree study, A minimum income standard for Britain in 2009, an extremely interesting ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c253GC (Link to this contribution) How about Coca-Cola as well?

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 716 c262GC (Link to this contribution) I acknowledge that, but we are talking about earning, and if minimum income standards were available...

Lord Freud | 716 c262-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the intention of this amendment is to explore the relationship between child poverty and c...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c263-4GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord not agree that that is not the right question to ask? Having got the transfer of...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c261GC (Link to this contribution) I just remind the noble Lord that, as well as low income and material deprivation targets, there is ...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 716 c260-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords who have taken part in the debate; it has been an important a...

Lord Freud | 716 c271GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 28 withdrawn.

Lord Freud | 716 c271-2GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister has on several occasions stressed the importance of socio-economic disadvantage when sa...

Lord Freud | 716 c272-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall quickly go through what I started with, on the basis that the listener absorbs hal...

Lord Freud | 716 c270-1GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, for that, but I am slightly taken aback. Last time she accu...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c275GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, I apologise. I meant Amendment 34. The Bill requires strategies to set out the specific action...

Lord Freud | 716 c279GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister. I do not want to go on and on. I understand the targets in subsection (5) perf...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 716 c278GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have tried to explain what we believe it means and the purpose of the use of that term....

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 716 c277-8GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord needs to read the whole of Clause 8. Basically, it does what many other pieces of leg...

Lord Martin of Springburn | 716 c281-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I can see some merit in the argument that the noble Lord has put. As someone who has serve...

Lord Freud | 716 c279GC (Link to this contribution) 30: Clause 8, page 4, line 21, at end insert "and the promotion of economic enterprise"

Subjects

Children

Conditions of employment

Alcoholic drinks

Disadvantaged

Costs

Finance

Families

Drugs

Misconduct

Low incomes