Parliamentary search - Political Parties and Elections Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

710 c105-66GC

Session

2008-09

Department

Ministry of Justice

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Political Parties and Elections Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 26-EN also published.
Tuesday, 3 March 2009
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c128-9GC (Link to this contribution) I take that point and I understand that it is always possible for someone to use information that th...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c123GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend used the key word "approval". It may well be that a recommendation comes through, an...

Show all contributions (132)

Lord Henley | 710 c117-8GC (Link to this contribution) We broadly support Clause 5 as it is, and in doing so, support subsection (3), which we are largely ...

Lord Tyler | 710 c135GC (Link to this contribution) We, too, very much support this amendment, along similar lines to the noble Baroness. I am not sure ...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c130GC (Link to this contribution) I keep thinking of the Damian Green affair, where a civil servant had come straight from a political...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c159GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may respond to the issue of how difficult it is to prove recklessness. That is quite prope...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c157-8GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments 83, 87 and 88 relate only to Clause 8, the requirement for a declaration as to the source...

Lord Bach | 710 c156GC (Link to this contribution) For the record, the Rowntree report that I was talking about—it is easy to get them confused—is not ...

Lord Henley | 710 c147-8GC (Link to this contribution) That is not a matter for me to address at this stage. I noted what the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, said ...

Lord Tyler | 710 c148GC (Link to this contribution) I am listening with great interest to the noble Lord, but does he accept that that principle has bee...

Lord Henley | 710 c147GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, will not be surprised to learn that he does not have my suppo...

Lord Bach | 710 c141GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to both noble Lords for supporting this part of the Bill and the government amendments...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c128GC (Link to this contribution) My point was not that someone would be in a politically sensitive role all the time, but that people...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c129GC (Link to this contribution) I completely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbots.

Lord Henley | 710 c110GC (Link to this contribution) Again, the noble Lord’s argument seems to be that we must follow the precedent of an earlier Act—in ...

Lord Bach | 710 c111GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments would slightly alter the language used to describe the circumstances in which the com...

Lord Henley | 710 c108-9GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendment 71. The amendments are designed to stimulate a brief discussion on e...

Lord Rennard | 710 c109GC (Link to this contribution) I understand why the Electoral Commission opposes this amendment. It suggests that it may ultimately...

Lord Bach | 710 c107-8GC (Link to this contribution) We understand the desire that the commission should act in a timely manner. We all wish to see the c...

Lord Bach | 710 c106-7GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments seek to amend the paragraphs of this part of the schedule that define the circumstanc...

Lord Haskel | 710 c106GC (Link to this contribution) I have to tell the Committee that if Amendment 47 is agreed I cannot call Amendment 48 because of pr...

Lord Haskel | 710 c105GC (Link to this contribution) I have to tell the Committee that if there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Co...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c124GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 6: Number of Electoral Commissioners Debate on whether Clause 6 should stand part of the Bil...

Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c119GC (Link to this contribution) I raise one point that has not been touched on. I have considerable sympathy with the substance of p...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c121GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend said that commissioners are expected to act in "a non-partisan way". He did not mana...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c121GC (Link to this contribution) I said, although I may have mumbled it, that the commission staff make decisions on penalties, seeki...

Lord Borrie | 710 c118-9GC (Link to this contribution) I offer a few words before the Minister responds. Like my noble friend Lady Gould, I agree with so m...

Lord Tyler | 710 c112-5GC (Link to this contribution) I should remind the Grand Committee, as I mentioned at Second Reading, that although I do not have a...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c117GC (Link to this contribution) I want to ask a very simple question. With the permission of the Committee, I shall do so now so as ...

Lord Bach | 710 c136GC (Link to this contribution) I am very surprised that the Committee is seriously proposing that we should add to, rather than tak...

Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c138GC (Link to this contribution) I am tempted to ask the Minister whether he recognises that he is speaking out loud. I am very grate...

Lord Tyler | 710 c136-7GC (Link to this contribution) But surely in such circumstances all the Secretary of State has to do is to say, "This report does n...

Lord Bach | 710 c136GC (Link to this contribution) There are some commission reports to which it is not necessary for the Government to respond.

Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c132GC (Link to this contribution) I have a problem with the last comment. I know many people who are interested in that aspect of elec...

Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c133-4GC (Link to this contribution) The Electoral Commission is required by Section 6 of the 2000 Act to keep under review and from time...

Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c133GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 79 79: After Clause 7, insert the following new Clause— "Reports of Electoral Commission ...

Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c134-5GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. It is absolutely right that if, in fact, the Electoral Commission has been ...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c135GC (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief but perhaps marginally more controversial. I completely support the amendment, alth...

Lord Tyler | 710 c130-1GC (Link to this contribution) That is a formidable point and it reflects the one that I made about enforcement. The commission has...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c130GC (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful. The noble Lord raised the question of enforcement. I understand the point a...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c131GC (Link to this contribution) Any member of the commission staff doing any task must act impartially. The power in this clause is ...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c131GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may put a scenario to my noble friend. This is a real world question. Imagine a young soci...

Lord Tyler | 710 c162GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may briefly respond. The noble Lord, Lord Brooke, has a great deal more experience than I ...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c162GC (Link to this contribution) My intervention will be extremely brief. I did not table an amendment to this effect, but does the n...

Lord Henley | 710 c159GC (Link to this contribution) I take note of what the Minister said, but I am buoyed up by the fact that both the noble Lords, Lor...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 710 c159GC (Link to this contribution) In view of what has been said, I support the second two amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Henley. R...

Lord Henley | 710 c156-7GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 87 and 88. We now move on to what will be new Section 54A, which is...

Lord Tyler | 710 c155GC (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether the Minister intended to complete his remarks, but could he address the import...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c150-1GC (Link to this contribution) I have no difficulty at all in recognising that fact. It is obviously worth referring to in the cont...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c155-6GC (Link to this contribution) I think that they will be far more interested in what the Minister said as against what I said. It i...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c150GC (Link to this contribution) If I had still been in the elected House, I would have voted against it and spoken against it with p...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c150GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, would regard it as a betrayal of a confid...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c149GC (Link to this contribution) I recognise the powerful, if emotional, appeal made by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours. Some a...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 710 c149-50GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister rises, I have been reminded of one more question for the noble Lord, Lord Campbe...

Lord Henley | 710 c148GC (Link to this contribution) It might have been blown to smithereens on that one point but it still exists here. It is a valid po...

Lord Tyler | 710 c140GC (Link to this contribution) There was a moment of considerable concern in my mind because I was anxious that we should not proce...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c127GC (Link to this contribution) I have Amendment 76 in this grouping. I begin by apologising to the Committee for not having been he...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c124-7GC (Link to this contribution) In moving this amendment, I shall also speak to Amendments 77 and 78. I have a short, non-controvers...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c127GC (Link to this contribution) I think I mean the chairman, but maybe the chief executive has the final call. Do either of them hav...

Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c128GC (Link to this contribution) First, I should say how much I appreciate the fact that the Government have picked up the point that...

Lord Henley | 710 c110GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 72 72: Schedule 2, page 44, line 43, after "their" insert "reasonable"

Lord Henley | 710 c110-1GC (Link to this contribution) We now come to the end of this batch of opposition amendments. In moving Amendment 72, I shall also ...

Lord Henley | 710 c108GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. I understand clearly that if one puts "promptly" in one piece of legi...

Lord Henley | 710 c107GC (Link to this contribution) I shall not be moving the two other amendments in this group—Amendments 60B and 62—as I think that w...

Lord Henley | 710 c107GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 60A 60A: Schedule 2, page 35, line 41, after "shall" insert "promptly"

Lord Henley | 710 c105-6GC (Link to this contribution) In the absence of my noble friend Lord Bates, I shall be moving the Conservative amendments today. I...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c124GC (Link to this contribution) There are several things that we will need to put in a letter, particularly the delicate points that...

Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c117GC (Link to this contribution) I concede that.

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c117GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend, who has great experience in these matters, referred to guidance. Do we not need a l...

Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c117GC (Link to this contribution) That is an important point. There may have to be occasions when the commission does not participate....

Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c115-6GC (Link to this contribution) I have a little problem with the amendment. It is not that I disagree with it, because in a sense I ...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c116-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Gould. We are extremely fortunate that she is serv...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c136GC (Link to this contribution) In the briefing which the commission has given us for this amendment, there is an indication that th...

Lord Bach | 710 c136GC (Link to this contribution) But what an added piece of bureaucracy to have to respond within six months. It is small but signifi...

Lord Bach | 710 c137-8GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I could go on to what I considered my strongest point, which is that such a shift risks seri...

Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c138GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s response. He has listened to the Committee. I think it is worth rei...

Lord Bach | 710 c138GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot help but have heard the strong arguments around the Committee on this issue. Although I hav...

Lord Tyler | 710 c130GC (Link to this contribution) Again, I understand the noble Lord’s point, but whether that individual had been immune from direct ...

Lord Tyler | 710 c129-30GC (Link to this contribution) I wish to make a brief contribution. We, too, see the logic of clarifying these issues and we very m...

Lord Henley | 710 c129GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may make one or two brief comments. We are sympathetic to these government amendments, but...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c131-2GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may press the Minister a little further. There are concerns around this issue and the nobl...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c131GC (Link to this contribution) I have little to add to what I have said but it is important to thank the noble Baroness, Lady Gould...

Lord Bach | 710 c166GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 95 95: Schedule 3, page 46, leave out lines 41 and 42 Amendment 95 agreed. Amendment 96...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c166GC (Link to this contribution) This may be convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until next Tuesday at 3.30 pm.

Lord Bach | 710 c165GC (Link to this contribution) Schedule 3: Declaration as to source of donation Amendment 91 91: Schedule 3, page 46, line 20, le...

Lord Tyler | 710 c164GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Marland, in particular, because I know that we share a gr...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c162-4GC (Link to this contribution) I must say that officials and ourselves had also read the amendment as implying that it would apply ...

Lord Tyler | 710 c160GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89 89: After Clause 8, insert the following new Clause— "Donations by companies controlle...

Lord Rennard | 710 c157GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments in this group do not really find favour with me. Amendment 83 would cause confusion w...

Lord Borrie | 710 c159GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, would he not agree that the word "reckless" implies that you do not...

Lord Henley | 710 c159GC (Link to this contribution) I will certainly look at that in due course. The third amendment is the most important. I always wor...

Lord Bach | 710 c155GC (Link to this contribution) I have an answer for the noble Lord: if donations which are above the recordable threshold of £500 u...

Lord Bach | 710 c155GC (Link to this contribution) I suspect that Members of Parliament may also want to read what the noble Lord said.

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c148-9GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may intervene. As Ministers would say, "It is not in my brief to reply on issues of Europe...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c147GC (Link to this contribution) How would we manage to regulate a multiplicity of £50,000 donations coming in from some obscure part...

Lord Henley | 710 c140GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for speaking to the government amendments and for touching on our Amen...

Lord Bach | 710 c139GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 8: Declaration as to source of donation Amendment 80 80: Clause 8, page 6, line 6, leave ou...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c138GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient point for the Committee to adjourn for 10 minutes. Sitting suspended.

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c127GC (Link to this contribution) Did the noble Lord mean to say the chairman of the commission or the chief executive?

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c127-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that—he has the final call. My issue relates to subsection (3) of the new section....

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c127GC (Link to this contribution) The final decision lies with the chief executive under the clause.

Lord Henley | 710 c111-2GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord took a stronger line on the second amendment, rather than on the first. I was perfect...

Lord Henley | 710 c108GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 61 61: Schedule 2, page 36, leave out lines 28 and 29

Lord Bach | 710 c109-10GC (Link to this contribution) This amendment and Amendment 71 grouped with it both relate to provisions in the Bill for the commis...

Lord Henley | 710 c107GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that explanation from the noble Lord. If I heard him correctly at the beginning—pe...

Lord Henley | 710 c105GC (Link to this contribution) Schedule 2: Civil sanctions: Schedule to be inserted into the 2000 Act Amendment 47 47: Schedule 2...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c124GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 7: Political restrictions on Electoral Commissioners and staff Amendment 75 75: Clause 7, p...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c119-21GC (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords for this interesting debate, particularly the story of the conversion of the nob...

Lord Tyler | 710 c121-3GC (Link to this contribution) This has been a very useful debate and, at the very least, it will help to inform all those who may ...

Lord Tyler | 710 c123-4GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord. We do not have that guidance from the Minister. He may feel that it...

Lord Tyler | 710 c112GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 5: Four Electoral Commissioners to be persons put forward by parties Amendment 74 74: Claus...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c132-3GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments 77 and 78 77: Clause 7, page 5, line 41, at end insert— "11B(1) The chief executive of t...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c132GC (Link to this contribution) I have nothing to add at this point. Amendment 75 agreed. Amendment 76 not moved.

Lord Bach | 710 c135-6GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment would require the Secretary of State to provide a written response to reports issued b...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c136GC (Link to this contribution) Under subsection (2) of the proposed new clause, I presume that the Government could reply and say t...

Lord Bach | 710 c165GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 93 93: Schedule 3, page 46, line 26, leave out from first "a" to "by" in line 28 and inse...

Lord Marland | 710 c164GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for arriving late at the Committee. I also apologise for taking noble Lords beyond four ...

Lord Tyler | 710 c160-2GC (Link to this contribution) We do not need to spend a great deal of time on this matter because to some extent we have covered i...

Lord Henley | 710 c159GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 85 85: Clause 8, page 6, leave out lines 37 to 40 Amendment 85 agreed. Amendments 86 to...

Lord Henley | 710 c158-9GC (Link to this contribution) At this stage, I can do nothing other than withdraw it. However, I am not happy with that response. ...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c156GC (Link to this contribution) The reference to the interflow of data between various organisations within government appears in th...

Lord Henley | 710 c156GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 83 83: Clause 8, page 6, line 16, leave out "best of the individual’s" and insert "indivi...

Lord Bach | 710 c151-4GC (Link to this contribution) The intention behind Amendments 82 and 84 is to seek to tie the ability of an individual to make a p...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c155GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for his comments. I do not want to be rude to noble Lords, but I sh...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c150GC (Link to this contribution) My proposal provides for a stronger threshold than simply being on the electoral roll.

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 710 c149GC (Link to this contribution) In that case, I was not sufficiently familiar with the Bill. I hope not to irritate my erstwhile Con...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 710 c148GC (Link to this contribution) As a fundraiser for the UK Independence Party, I find these amendments inconvenient. However, I also...

Lord Tyler | 710 c145-7GC (Link to this contribution) I and my noble friend Lord Rennard have added our names to Amendments 82 and 84 for a number of reas...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c141GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 82 82: Clause 8, page 6, line 8, at end insert— "(1A) In section 54 of the 2000 Act (perm...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c141-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I shall spend a little more time on this amendment. I have tried to be brief on oth...

Lord Bach | 710 c139-40GC (Link to this contribution) In moving Amendment 80, I shall speak also to Amendments 85, 91, 93 and 95, which propose altering C...

Lord Brougham and Vaux | 710 c139GC (Link to this contribution) If Amendment 80 is agreed, I cannot call Amendment 81 because of pre-emption.

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