UK Parliament / Open data

Victims and Prisoners Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Wednesday, 31 January 2024, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Bellamy. The answering members were Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Baroness Thornton.
Lords committee stage second day. Clause 2 under consideration. (Part 1 of 2).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
835 cc1183-1231 
Session
2023-24
Department
Ministry of Justice
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber

Show all related items (6)
Deposited Paper DEP2024-0380
Monday, 25 March 2024
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2024-0381
Monday, 25 March 2024
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 835 cc1183-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for the chance to participate—I thought I was going to be cut off at the ...

Baroness Hamwee | 835 c1184 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that his faith will be even better kept if he keeps on advoca...


Show all contributions (75)
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 835 c1184 (Link to this contribution)

I could not disagree with that. I suspect that there are a whole host of issues behind habitual o...

Baroness Brinton | 835 cc1184-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is the first group of amendments which really gets into victims’ rights—not just w...

Baroness Thornton | 835 c1186 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, as I often do, that we are now digging i...

Lord Bellamy | 835 cc1186-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken to this group of amendments. The Government app...

Lord Harries of Pentregarth | 835 c1187 (Link to this contribution)

I think we are all very sympathetic to the idea that a huge amount could go in the code and the g...

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1187 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the noble and right reverend Lord invites me, I will look again at that evidence and...

Baroness Brinton | 835 c1187 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the problem with Clause 2(2) is that it is followed by Clause 2(3), which starts by say...

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1187 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think we will come to the “must”/“should” point a bit later when we discuss the amend...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 835 c1189 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to pick up the point made by the Minister about victim services going into the c...

Lord Bellamy | 835 cc1189-1190 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if I may say so, what one should put in the Bill and in the code are matters of judgmen...

Baroness Hamwee | 835 c1190 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am quite a localist normally, but is this not the very point? A single point of conta...

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1190 (Link to this contribution)

I shall not be attempting to answer the email that has not yet come through until it does, but my...

Lord Hogan-Howe | 835 c1191 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am sorry to delay things, but there is one thing I am not clear about. Restorative ju...

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1191 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I may be as underinformed as anyone but my understanding is that the classic case of re...

Lord Blunkett | 835 c1191 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I know there is an unwritten convention that noble Lords should not intervene when they...

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1191 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, for his question. I would obviously not dream of...

Baroness Gohir | 835 c1192 (Link to this contribution)

I thank noble Lords who have spoken on this group and those who supported Amendment 13. I thank t...

Baroness Coussins | 835 c1192 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Coussins

18: Clause 2, page 2, line 27, at end insert—

“(3A) ...

Baroness Coussins | 835 cc1192-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to the four amendments in the second group in my name, which are supported...

Bishop of Leeds | 835 cc1193-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise that I was not able to be present at Second Reading—the day job had to take...

Lord Wigley | 835 cc1196-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for bringing forward this amendment. When I spoke at Second ...

Baroness Newlove | 835 cc1197-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support of all four of the amendments and thank the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, fo...

Lord Hogan-Howe | 835 cc1198-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, particularly on the collection of evidence...

Lord Meston | 835 cc1199-1200 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I also support Amendment 18, which would require the code to provide for interpreting a...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 835 cc1200-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I also apologise for being unable to be present for Second Reading. I will speak very b...

Lord Berkeley of Knighton | 835 c1201 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support my noble friend’s amendments, and I particularly emphasise the points we have...

Baroness Brinton | 835 cc1201-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Benjamin would have liked to speak from these Benches today, but, ...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 835 cc1202-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too thank the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, for this group of amendments, to which I...

Lord Bellamy | 835 cc1203-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, for raising this important topic. I join in ...

Baroness Coussins | 835 c1205 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who spoke in support of my amendments in this group. I...

Baroness Brinton | 835 c1206 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Brinton

20: Clause 2, page 2, line 36, at end insert—

“(5A) R...

Baroness Brinton | 835 cc1206-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have tabled Amendment 20 and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool, and t...

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 835 cc1207-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, in this amendment. I pay tribute to her and...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 835 cc1208-1210 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a total privilege as always to dip my first toe into your Lordships’ Committee on...

Baroness Newlove | 835 c1210 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am listening to all of this. My brief, from my team, is to correspond with Ministers,...

Lord Meston | 835 cc1210-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, what this debate has shown is the need for some clarity about what can and cannot prope...

Earl Russell | 835 cc1211-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too speak in favour of this amendment on court transcripts. I too pay tribute to Sara...

Baroness Hamwee | 835 cc1212-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it will be abundantly clear what our view is from these Benches, but I am speaking form...

Baroness Hamwee | 835 c1213 (Link to this contribution)

I suppose it is like our written notes: sometimes we have them, sometimes we do not and sometimes...

Baroness Thornton | 835 cc1213-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions. I appreciate that this places the Mini...

Lord Winston | 835 c1214 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as my name has just been mentioned in this short debate, I will make a quick interjecti...

Lord Bellamy | 835 cc1214-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is heartening to hear a story with a happy ending in one respect, as we are generall...

Baroness Newlove | 835 c1215 (Link to this contribution)

Unfortunately, there are no rooms available to do that. I would love that—and I welcome my noble ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 835 c1215 (Link to this contribution)

That would be enormously helpful in many civil and family cases as well, and it simply is not ava...

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1215 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful for those interventions. I have personally seen this in operation in Mancheste...

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1216 (Link to this contribution)

I recognise the nature of the problem.

The modern versions of AI, or whatever generation of...

Baroness Brinton | 835 cc1216-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate, particularly the noble Bar...

Baroness Hamwee | 835 c1217 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before my noble friend withdraws the amendment, as I suspect she is about to, I ask the...

Baroness Brinton | 835 c1217 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to my noble friend, and I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 835 c1217 (Link to this contribution)

I am going to give the Minister an opportunity to respond, if he wishes.

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1217 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you. The Sentencing Council point is an interesting one, which I will reflect on. As for th...

Lord Hampton | 835 c1217 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hampton

21: Clause 2, page 3, leave out lines 8 and 9 and insert—

Lord Hampton | 835 cc1217-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is where I again declare my interest as a state secondary school teacher in east L...

Lord Polak | 835 cc1219-1222 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall not detain the Committee. I have my name on several amendments, but they have o...

Baroness Newlove | 835 cc1220-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support all the amendments in this group on child victims. I thank my noble friend Lo...

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 835 cc1223-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak briefly and cover all the amendments, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Newl...

Baroness Brinton | 835 cc1224-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak on Amendments 108 and 109, in the absence of the noble Baroness, Lady Benj...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 835 cc1225-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the discussion on this group has been remarkable. I agree with everything that all nobl...

Lord Bellamy | 835 cc1226-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all speakers in this debate. Like others, I particularly salute Poppy and her s...

Baroness Brinton | 835 c1228 (Link to this contribution)

This is absolutely no criticism of the Minister himself. The Government have often tended to focu...

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1228 (Link to this contribution)

I am extremely grateful for that important intervention. As a number of noble Lords pointed out, ...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 835 cc1228-9 (Link to this contribution)

But that is not quite right, though, is it? I do not believe that the definition of a victim in t...

Baroness Brinton | 835 c1229 (Link to this contribution)

Any suspected child sexual abuse would be a crime, as covered under Schedule 1. In that context s...

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1229 (Link to this contribution)

We may slightly be dancing angels on a pin. It may well be that if a regulated professional says ...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 835 c1229 (Link to this contribution)

For clarity, it is important, given that I intervened on the Minister before, to refer the Commit...

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1229 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am not sure that we are really in disagreement on this. As I think I pointed out seve...

Baroness Brinton | 835 c1229 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord. As the debate we have just had demonstrates, the pro...

Lord Bellamy | 835 c1229 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I need to think about this point. The amendment came in a little later than some of the...

Lord Hampton | 835 c1230 (Link to this contribution)

That, in my short experience of this House, was the most extraordinarily powerful debate and I th...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 835 cc1230-1 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Chakrabarti

23: Leave out Clause 2 and insert the following new Cla...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 835 c1231 (Link to this contribution)

It is an interesting time for me to be beginning this group. I do not know whether the usual chan...

Notes
Welsh legislative consent sought.
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