UK Parliament / Open data

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Monday, 17 January 2011, in the House of Lords.
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. Lords committee stage (ninth day). Clause 11 amendments considered. Closure motion agreed on division (219 to 130).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
724 c11-82, c90-324 
Session
2010-12
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
Closure motions
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes also published (HL Bill 26-EN).
Wednesday, 3 November 2010
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c133 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the question I asked has not been answered.
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c133 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is right. If there is such an example, I shall find it and let her know.

Show all contributions (637)
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c133 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may advise the House that it was nearly 180 years ago. After that date, it was always targ...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c133 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, surely, the issue is not about the overall numbers; it is about how those seats are distri...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c133 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I asked the noble Lord when the Government of the day last decided.
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c133 (Link to this contribution) I heard the question and I said to the noble Baroness that if I can find the answer to it, I shall l...
Lord Soley | 724 c133 (Link to this contribution) I shall say straightaway that from the way in which the noble Lord has started his contribution I am...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c133-4 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Soley, has suggested in the most bizarre way that because the Government have d...
Lord Soley | 724 c134 (Link to this contribution) I will sum up when other people have spoken. I want just to repeat that the Leader of the House does...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c131 (Link to this contribution) That is rich coming from the noble and learned Lord, who was one of Tony Blair’s closest advisers. T...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c132 (Link to this contribution) We did not seek to reduce the size of the House of Commons on the basis that there were too many pol...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c131 (Link to this contribution) In the light of is condemnation of extra politicians, why have this Government made so many new Peer...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c132 (Link to this contribution) I have got no idea from where the noble Lord gets his figure of 400. But of course he is one of the ...
Lord Touhig | 724 c132 (Link to this contribution) Forgive me if I have not made myself clear: I was referring to 400 more elected paid politicians, wh...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c132 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, there was no hypocrisy. The noble and learned Lord has to wait only a few more weeks to ...
Lord Touhig | 724 c132 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord also think that the British people might be somewhat sceptical about putting 400...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c132 (Link to this contribution) The figure remains to be seen. I very much look forward to the lengthy debate that we will have. The...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c132 (Link to this contribution) Will the Leader of the House tell us the last time a Government in this country determined the exact...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c132-3 (Link to this contribution) The number of Members of the House of Commons has increased and decreased on several occasions over ...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 724 c110 (Link to this contribution) It is the decision-making that I am interested in, but it seems to me that we need an independent co...
Lord Morgan | 724 c110 (Link to this contribution) I have enormous sympathy with the spirit of what my noble friend is saying, but the point is that a ...
Lord Morgan | 724 c108 (Link to this contribution) First, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her great kindness. Secondly, I was endeavouring to s...
Lord Winston | 724 c108 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend cites 1944. Would he like to opine on whether he feels that Parliament was held in g...
Lord Morgan | 724 c108 (Link to this contribution) The answer is clearly yes. If you look at the material of the Army Bureau of Current Affairs in 1944...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 724 c109-10 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise with some trepidation because I am going to disagree with my noble friend Lord Lips...
Baroness Wall of New Barnet | 724 c107 (Link to this contribution) I have listened very carefully to my noble friend. There was a lot of history that I found very inte...
Lord Morgan | 724 c107-8 (Link to this contribution) I am most indebted for that very interesting intervention by my noble friend. Very often those who c...
Baroness O'Cathain | 724 c108 (Link to this contribution) I always love listening to the noble Lord, Lord Morgan. I have been to some of his lectures and ther...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c110 (Link to this contribution) I think that my noble friend is arguing both for an independent group and for a Speaker’s Conference...
Lord Goldsmith | 724 c113 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that the noble Lord is going to have to listen to me about it now. I have explained to h...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c113 (Link to this contribution) There is a fundamental regulation in this House that we speak to the amendments that have been moved...
Lord Goldsmith | 724 c111-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I too support the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Soley. It is a hugely impo...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c113 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we are dealing with that under Amendment 91 later on. I look forward very much to hearing ...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 724 c110-1 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, my noble friend, the most eminent professor, has never been there. My view is that this sho...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 724 c110 (Link to this contribution) If I may say so, I think that that is the voice of the trade union of former Members of the other Ho...
Lord Goldsmith | 724 c113-4 (Link to this contribution) I am absolutely sticking to the rules of the House because what both of these amendments propose is ...
Lord Martin of Springburn | 724 c114 (Link to this contribution) On the power of the Executive, I accept the noble and learned Lord’s case that we have to reduce the...
Lord Goldsmith | 724 c114 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with the noble Lord and I apologise for not realising that he wanted to intervene. ...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c114 (Link to this contribution) Does my noble and learned friend accept that, when he talks about the members of the Executive as a ...
Lord Goldsmith | 724 c115 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Anderson is right about that, which is one of the issues that needs to be dealt...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 724 c115-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak briefly in support of the spirit of Amendments 59 and 60. First, though, the...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 724 c116-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friends Lord Soley and Lord Lipsey have done a great service to the House by brin...
Lord Renton of Mount Harry | 724 c118 (Link to this contribution) It surprises me that the noble Lord and others have said that an independent commission should decid...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 724 c118-9 (Link to this contribution) I disagree with the noble Lord. I am quite surprised to hear him advance that position, because I kn...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 724 c119 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for my noble friend’s support. That, indeed, is the right answer to the noble Lord, Lo...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c119 (Link to this contribution) There is another example. The Liberal Democrats will remember it very well; we had arguments about i...
Lord Kinnock | 724 c120 (Link to this contribution) On that point, does the noble Lord not agree that at this juncture we need an independent commission...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 724 c120-1 (Link to this contribution) I wholeheartedly agree with my noble friend. The most succinct way in which to put this issue is as ...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c119 (Link to this contribution) Is not the problem with what the noble Lord, Lord Renton is saying that he is arguing that the major...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 724 c119-20 (Link to this contribution) I very much hear what my noble friend says. Of course, he has said similar things in the debate this...
Lord McAvoy | 724 c121-2 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak to my noble friend Lord Soley’s amendment, but before doing so I shall briefly draw ...
Lord Trimble | 724 c125 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the noble Lord and the Speaker’s Conference on the deliberations that he mentioned. H...
Lord Radice | 724 c124-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the proposition put forward by my noble friend Lord Lipsey, although I also thin...
Lord Rennard | 724 c124 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord is an expert in intimidation from his experience as a Whip in the other place...
Lord McAvoy | 724 c124 (Link to this contribution) I did not realise how busy I was in the other place. I am impressed that the noble Lord has an impre...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c122 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord can tell us how many of those were Bills of 18 clauses.
Lord McAvoy | 724 c122 (Link to this contribution) Are we bringing House of Commons habits here?
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c123 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord think it would have helped the distribution of seats in the Scottish Parliament ...
Lord McAvoy | 724 c122-3 (Link to this contribution) I cannot say off the top of my head, so I give that one immediately to the noble Lord. The point is ...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c129 (Link to this contribution) I know that the noble Lord is going to remind me of the Companion, and quite right, too. That is one...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c127-9 (Link to this contribution) But even before we saw this unfortunate growth in the size of the Administration, it was commonplace...
Lord Myners | 724 c127 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may suggest to your Lordships’ House that the number of Ministers receiving salaries is li...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c127 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will find that, one way or another, Members of the Administration, including Parliame...
Lord Elton | 724 c127 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Lord refresh my memory? I thought that the number of Ministers in the House of Commons...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c125-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Soley proposes that the number of consti...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c130 (Link to this contribution) Noble Lords have complained for some time that there has been no contribution from this side of the ...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c130 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for telling us how we normally do business. It is not no...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c130 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord the Leader of the House intervened to ask whether that would be helpful to ...
Lord Elton | 724 c129 (Link to this contribution) I did not quite catch what the noble Lord asked, but would he accept that we have a general idea tha...
Lord Winston | 724 c129 (Link to this contribution) There is an important issue and I do not know whether my noble friend has addressed it. With the imp...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c129-30 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree with my noble friend. What he says on this subject is bound to carry weight on all...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c131 (Link to this contribution) No, I am no longer giving way. I have the Floor and I am not giving way to the noble and learned Lor...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c130 (Link to this contribution) May I finish this point? I said that I have not heard anything new. I have no promise that anything ...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c131 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should not have given way to the noble Lord, Lord Wills. This has been a great debate. I ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c131 (Link to this contribution) I think that there the sense that we should go on for a bit. Some noble Lords opposite are shaking t...
Lord Wills | 724 c130-1 (Link to this contribution) To that very point, I have been trying to get in to speak to contribute something new to the debate,...
Lord Lipsey | 724 c104 (Link to this contribution) I defer absolutely to my noble friend. Indeed, I was quailing in my seat at the thought of the inter...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c104 (Link to this contribution) On the Speaker’s Conferences, I genuinely am ignorant about this one question. To what extent was th...
Lord Lipsey | 724 c104-5 (Link to this contribution) Noble Lords will find that a range of experiences are set out in a Speaker’s Conference Standard Not...
Lord Morgan | 724 c105-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment admirably moved by my noble friend. This is my first intervention ...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 724 c104 (Link to this contribution) Does the conference on the future of home rule, which took place in the summer of 1914 at Buckingham...
Lord Lipsey | 724 c104 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether it should but it does not count in Mr Straw’s list or in British Political Fac...
Lord Morgan | 724 c104 (Link to this contribution) I think the difference is between a conference convened by the party leaders, which they ask the Spe...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c103 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether my noble friend heard me arguing earlier for some flexibility for the Boundary Comm...
Baroness Hayman | 724 c102 (Link to this contribution) I have to inform the Committee that if Amendment 59 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendments 60 to 63Z...
Lord Lipsey | 724 c102-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 60, which is a companion amendment to that moved by the noble L...
Lord Soley | 724 c101 (Link to this contribution) There is no doubt that that is how most people in the Conservative Party view it. I shall simply sit...
Lord Soley | 724 c101 (Link to this contribution) The point I made earlier is that if a major party is left out of the arrangements for deciding the s...
Lord Wills | 724 c101 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. I wanted to suggest that he might direct the noble Lord, Lord Phil...
Lord Soley | 724 c101 (Link to this contribution) I said a number of times, as I did in my last speech, that I am not sure whether the Tory Party woul...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c101 (Link to this contribution) Surely, even if were not to turn out that way, the very process raises the question. It will be a ta...
Lord Lipsey | 724 c103-4 (Link to this contribution) That would be a possible outcome of a Speaker’s Conference. It might also decide that the way to dea...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 724 c100 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Soley, for giving way. I perfectly understand the legitimacy o...
Lord Soley | 724 c100 (Link to this contribution) Nobody has moved the word ““gerrymandering””, myself included. But let us be very clear what was bei...
Lord Soley | 724 c98 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is making a point I made with very great emphasis right at the beginning of my comme...
Lord Garel-Jones | 724 c99 (Link to this contribution) Like me, the noble Lord spent a bit of time in the other place. Like me, no doubt he can recognise a...
Lord Soley | 724 c99 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to hear the noble Lord say that. He is so wrong and so misled on it. I have not in any wa...
Lord Garel-Jones | 724 c99 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord must be very aware from his experience in the other place many moons ago that there i...
Lord Soley | 724 c99 (Link to this contribution) On a constitutional matter of this importance in this Chamber? What makes the difference is that thi...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c99 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend concludes his valuable and very interesting remarks, would he care to remind ...
Lord Soley | 724 c100 (Link to this contribution) That is right. It is not just Labour Members in the other place but Conservative Members too who wro...
Lord Tyler | 724 c100 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Soley. Uncharacteristically, he seems not to have been attendi...
Lord Soley | 724 c98 (Link to this contribution) It is what I call over-powerful government again. Again I point out what Andrew Tyrie said. I am not...
Baroness Wall of New Barnet | 724 c98 (Link to this contribution) I have sat, like many other people, for many hours and have only just decided to contribute. There a...
Lord Soley | 724 c97 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is right, although I thought that I said ““any future Government””, not particularly...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c96-7 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may marginally disagree with what my noble friend has just said. He said that a Labour Gov...
Lord Soley | 724 c98 (Link to this contribution) My figures may be slightly dated, but, either way, it is profoundly dangerous. I will end on this no...
Lord Grocott | 724 c98 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend concludes, am I the only one—I am sure I am not—who can see the irony that si...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c73-4 (Link to this contribution) I seem to recall that I started to get into this territory last week on the same circumstances. I wa...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c70 (Link to this contribution) But, equally, I think that there was feeling around the Committee that the time had come when this m...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 724 c70 (Link to this contribution) This is an iterative conversation. The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, has not made a contribution to this...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c70-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is entirely in order for me to speak at this moment. This being a Committee of the Hous...
Lord Wills | 724 c73 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord is right that the Answer goes some partial way towards reassuring me, but...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c70 (Link to this contribution) When I rose earlier, there seemed to be a mood that I should perhaps give way to the right reverend ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c74-5 (Link to this contribution) On the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, if the issue is that in safer seats the whole pro...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c75 (Link to this contribution) Even given a very short time to think about that point, I think that that is something of a non sequ...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 724 c74 (Link to this contribution) Is not the different behaviour of the Members of Parliament determined by the size of their majority...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c74 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend makes a good point. The noble Lord, Lord Rooker, said that he honed his skills when ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c75-7 (Link to this contribution) The Minister, in his final sentence, dealt with the point that I wanted to make, which has not been ...
Lord Winston | 724 c74 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord has addressed the question that I was about to ask. Is it not the constit...
Lord Snape | 724 c93 (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend acknowledge the courage of the Leader of the House at that time? He fell on his...
Lord Soley | 724 c93-4 (Link to this contribution) I must admit that I was always impressed that the noble Lord survived the experience, so I give him ...
Lord Soley | 724 c94 (Link to this contribution) Professor King made the point that, if you reduce the number of MPs from which Ministers are drawn, ...
Lord Soley | 724 c94-5 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that the only answer—this is the core of the problem that is making us do things such as...
Baroness Wall of New Barnet | 724 c94 (Link to this contribution) Would my noble friend describe for us what he means by an ““independent commission””? I cannot under...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 724 c95 (Link to this contribution) What is highly relevant is that this commission would be able to examine the evidence behind what my...
Lord Soley | 724 c95 (Link to this contribution) It is very important and it would also allow the commission to look at what is, for me, a critical p...
Lord Soley | 724 c95 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in just a second. What is not possible is to reduce the size of Parliament and not ...
Lord Soley | 724 c96 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is quite right, but I am seeking to persuade the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde. I am ...
Lord Snape | 724 c96 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend leaves that point—it is not for me to make his speech, as he is doing a more ...
Lord Soley | 724 c95 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased that the noble Lord is on the ball. That is probably why he ran rings round William Hag...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c95 (Link to this contribution) What the noble Lord is saying is very interesting, but he is now speaking to Amendment 91A. Perhaps ...
Lord Soley | 724 c96 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is quite right. I am waiting for that point to be answered, but, then again, there a...
Lord Soley | 724 c96 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in just one second. The noble Lord will have no grounds for complaint if a future G...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c77 (Link to this contribution) I am in the middle of a speech. Does the noble Lord want to ask a question?
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 724 c77 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will know that the fact that the Minister has spoken does not mean that the debate fi...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 724 c77 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has been addressing the House for quite some time. He has not come up with new argume...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c79-81 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will just deal with the central points. First, the suggestion has been made by some nobl...
Lord Rooker | 724 c78-9 (Link to this contribution) I am not keeping to the strictures of the noble Lord, Lord Baker, as I do not want it thought that I...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c77-8 (Link to this contribution) I was in the middle of a speech. I have sat through the whole of this debate. Noble Lords will confi...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c78 (Link to this contribution) Succinctly, if my noble friend pushes this amendment I do not think that I am minded to support it. ...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 724 c78 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Lord say succinctly whether he is for or against this amendment?
Lord Soley | 724 c90-1 (Link to this contribution) 59: Clause 11, page 9, leave out line 18 and insert— ““The number of constituencies in the United Ki...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c81 (Link to this contribution) I hear a noble Lord say ““Oh for God’s sake!””. The tradition in this House is that we have the deba...
Lord Soley | 724 c93 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is quite right and he has reminded me of something. I remember being in the Corridor...
Lord Soley | 724 c92 (Link to this contribution) I answered that question before, but in a different way. I said, and I say again, that what matters ...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c92 (Link to this contribution) I cannot resist. Did the noble Lord think that it was outrageous that the Labour Government decided ...
Lord Soley | 724 c91-2 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Lipsey will speak to Amendment 60. These amendments go together. Amendment 59 i...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am pleased to take the cue from the right reverend Prelate, because it is fair to say th...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that the cue was given to me by the right reverend Prelate and I intend to respond...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 724 c70 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not recognise that the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, has not had the opportunity to ma...
Bishop of Chester | 724 c70 (Link to this contribution) In the year of the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible, I am sure that the old ways often are ...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c70 (Link to this contribution) I was going to coin a phrase and talk about a ““preferential option for the poor””. Are not the most...
Lord Soley | 724 c69 (Link to this contribution) I shall say only two things in response. First, far too little time was given in the House of Common...
Bishop of Chester | 724 c69 (Link to this contribution) I think that it was to a 10 per cent reduction. I suppose that I am used to nice round figures from ...
Lord Wills | 724 c69 (Link to this contribution) Does the right reverend Prelate recall that the Prime Minister’s commitment during the election was ...
Bishop of Chester | 724 c69 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was going to end this very brief speech by saying that I thought that it was now time, a...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 724 c59-60 (Link to this contribution) Wait a moment, please. So I do not subscribe at all to the view that having an average seat in the ...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 724 c60 (Link to this contribution) I am coming to more interesting points. I have only just started on my reminiscences of my time as a...
Lord Wills | 724 c60 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the honourable gentleman—I am sorry, the noble Lord. I do beg his pardon. He was ki...
Lord Touhig | 724 c61 (Link to this contribution) This is the ninth day of the debate and a pattern is developing. We have a Minister who will speak o...
Lord Tyler | 724 c61 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord does not take too long, I will, I hope, be able to make my usual very terse, succi...
Lord Touhig | 724 c61-3 (Link to this contribution) I am overwhelmed by the noble Lord’s modesty and I shall try to reciprocate by keeping my remarks as...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c54 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may give an illustration of the poverty of the Opposition at that time. When my noble frie...
Lord Martin of Springburn | 724 c54-6 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord: it was ridiculous, and it has improved, especially for the Leader of th...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c57 (Link to this contribution) I have to say to my noble friend that I am slightly disturbed by his comments about petitions. If I ...
Lord Martin of Springburn | 724 c57-8 (Link to this contribution) All I can say to my noble friend, as he has called me, is that if three of the names on the petition...
Lord Martin of Springburn | 724 c56-7 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, but if a Member of a devolved Parliament was paid to deal with health, ...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 724 c59 (Link to this contribution) I wish that the noble Lord had considered my political career with more care. If he had, he would ha...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 724 c58-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am goaded to intervene in this debate because the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, sai...
Lord Tyler | 724 c68 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have the greatest respect for both noble Lords, with whom I have worked in the past, and...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c68 (Link to this contribution) I am intervening on my noble friend; I was asking him to comment on this matter. The debate started ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 724 c65 (Link to this contribution) My objection to the present proposal is the evidence that the Government are relying on for the figu...
Lord Soley | 724 c65-8 (Link to this contribution) I think that my noble friend is anticipating the debate on the next amendment, which stands in my na...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 724 c68 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend has done a great service to the Committee by bringing to our attention the pamphlet ...
Lord Soley | 724 c68 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend puts his finger on a critically important point, which I want to cover, along with o...
Lord Soley | 724 c68 (Link to this contribution) I do not have detailed knowledge of that matter, but I know that my noble friend pays great attentio...
Lord Soley | 724 c64-5 (Link to this contribution) When I come to the next amendment, Amendment 59, I want to focus on how we decide the size of Parlia...
Lord Tyler | 724 c63-4 (Link to this contribution) No, they could have done so if they had wanted to. In the Third Reading debate there was one mention...
Lord Lipsey | 724 c63 (Link to this contribution) May I correct the noble Lord? I was never in another place.
Lord Tyler | 724 c63 (Link to this contribution) I am so apologetic. My noble and learned friend Lord Wallace of Tankerness made this point earlier: ...
Lord Tyler | 724 c63 (Link to this contribution) I want to contribute only very briefly. I echo what my noble friend Lord Baker said earlier about th...
Lord Winston | 724 c64 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may interject, although of course I have not been a Member of the other place ei...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c33 (Link to this contribution) Is there not a danger that if the workload remains the same and the number of MPs is reduced there w...
Lord Lipsey | 724 c30-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like to bring to light some of the facts that should come to bear on this decisio...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 724 c33-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have two questions for the Government about their proposal to reduce the number of seats...
Lord Lipsey | 724 c33 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is absolutely right about that. It will also mean that the queue of people waiting t...
Lord Maples | 724 c27-8 (Link to this contribution) That is not correct. The boundary commissions legislation states the number of seats in Scotland and...
Lord Maples | 724 c28-30 (Link to this contribution) I should like to progress. This is like making a speech in the House of Commons, where people interv...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c27 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord moves on to that specific point, does he not agree that, on all those occasion...
Lord Maples | 724 c27 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, asks why it should fall to Parliament to make this decisi...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 724 c44-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, at Question Time this afternoon the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, asked a very per...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c42-4 (Link to this contribution) I have known my noble friend for a long time. We were in a team together for much of the 1980s. I ha...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c41 (Link to this contribution) Does my noble friend know that Lord Hailsham’s qualities were hereditary? His son became very simila...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c40-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I join my noble friend in trying to answer the question he raised about why the numbers ha...
Lord Wills | 724 c38-40 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to my noble friend. All that I ask the Government to reflect on in approachi...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c38 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend will know that I was one of those who were pressing him to have a vote. I have indee...
Lord Desai | 724 c34-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I always get excited when I see a mathematical formula in a Bill. The formula of U over 59...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c51 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rather differ from my noble friends on the Front Bench. I could not support this amendme...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c52 (Link to this contribution) Let me finish my sentence and I will give way. When the Bill was introduced, if I remember rightly, ...
Lord Glentoran | 724 c52 (Link to this contribution) I am wondering what the constituents of the House of Commons have to do with this House. Why are we ...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 724 c46 (Link to this contribution) Two and a half hours. To the Speaker of the House of Commons, it may have seemed two and a half year...
Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 724 c48-51 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow such a distinguished parliamentarian as the noble Lord, Lord Gr...
Lord Graham of Edmonton | 724 c46-8 (Link to this contribution) What we have listened to for the past hour and a half is a simple question: what is the evidence? Wh...
Lord McAvoy | 724 c52 (Link to this contribution) Bearing in mind the comment of the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, I remind my noble friend of the point...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c52 (Link to this contribution) I think I could even be persuaded by the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, to sit down a little earlier th...
Lord Martin of Springburn | 724 c54 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the debate on the amendment, and it is the amendment to which I wish to speak, no...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c52 (Link to this contribution) It is part of the constitutional function of the House of Lords to scrutinise legislation. We are a ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c52 (Link to this contribution) The intervention from the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, was very interesting, because that is the ques...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c52 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is, as always, very wise. It would have been greatly for the convenience of both Hou...
Lord Kinnock | 724 c52 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps my noble friend could usefully redirect the noble Lord’s perceptive question to the governme...
Viscount Simon | 724 c27 (Link to this contribution) I must advise your Lordships that, if Amendment 58A is agreed to, I cannot call Amendments 59 to 63Z...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c25-7 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting point and, significantly, my noble friend Lord Rooker has prefaced the point ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c23-5 (Link to this contribution) I think that that is fair, and it applies to the putting together of the Welsh Assembly, the putting...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c23 (Link to this contribution) May a voice from Wales seek to assist my noble friend in respect of what happened regarding the Wels...
Lord Rooker | 724 c25 (Link to this contribution) It is interesting that my noble and learned friend mentions France. In France, one in 100 adults is ...
Lord Trimble | 724 c23 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that the noble and learned Lord has misunderstood the point that I was making, which was...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c23 (Link to this contribution) I accept that as well but I can see no process by which, when you are setting up a Parliament, you c...
Lord Trimble | 724 c22-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord refers to this as a ““hallowed principle of our constitution””, but it was not applie...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c23 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to go into Northern Irish politics because I feel that if I did, I would make a number...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c22 (Link to this contribution) Is there not, as a result of this affront to our constitution in the way that this is being done, th...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c21-2 (Link to this contribution) My distress at the lack of interest in the substance of the Bill is a matter of some import. Amendm...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c21 (Link to this contribution) 58A: Clause 11, page 9, leave out lines 17 and 18 and insert— ““United Kingdom electoral quota The U...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c21 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I entirely agree with what the noble Baroness has said. Motion agreed. Clause 11 : Num...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c21 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that is right. Like the noble and learned Lord, I have sat through many of the debates tha...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c20-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, may I just finish this important point? Noble Lords opposite have said that we should spli...
Lord Hughes of Woodside | 724 c21 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Leader of the House. He speaks about urgency in choosing 5 May of this year. That might ...
Countess of Mar | 724 c21 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, on the same subject, the Government do not govern on their own; they govern with the two H...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 724 c19 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a brief point. There are precedents for splitting Bills which have got into difficult...
Lord Elton | 724 c19 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to interject in support of the noble Countess, Lady Mar, and say to my noble friend...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c19 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lady, Lady Saltoun of Abernethy, asked an extremely good question a few minutes ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c19 (Link to this contribution) On the question of splitting the Bill, the advice I have received is that it is not open to this Hou...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 724 c19-20 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the Leader will allow me to point out to him that that was not the question that the nob...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my point still stands. The Government made an announcement soon after the general election...
Lord Skelmersdale | 724 c19 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have been somewhat pre-empted by the two previous speakers in asking a question of the n...
Countess of Mar | 724 c15 (Link to this contribution) I will be very brief. Does the noble Lord agree that the House was asked—it divided on it—whether th...
Lord Richard | 724 c15 (Link to this contribution) With respect, I want to be very brief.
Lord Grocott | 724 c16-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, uncharacteristically, the noble Lord, Lord Lester, cannot have checked on the progress of ...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 724 c16 (Link to this contribution) I have listened carefully to what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, said. He is...
Lord Richard | 724 c15-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if a Motion is put down on the Order Paper, it is debated and divided on in the usual way....
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 724 c18 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may be permitted to put forward, with some diffidence, a perception from a Cross...
Lord Richard | 724 c14-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may say one or two words on this issue. However one looks at the position, the f...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c12 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord McNally I beg to move that the House do again resolve it...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c12-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may respond briefly to what the noble Lord the Leader of the House said. The Bil...
Lord McNally | 724 c11 (Link to this contribution) Tabled by That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c147 (Link to this contribution) Of course, I apologise immediately to the noble Lord, Lord Greaves. I did not mean to cause him any ...
Baroness O'Cathain | 724 c147 (Link to this contribution) I wish to ask the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, whether he is prepared to offer an apology ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c144 (Link to this contribution) Therefore, the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, thinks that the time involved is not excessive. I do not kn...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c144 (Link to this contribution) I have always suspected that my brain does not work in the same way as that of the noble Lord, Lord ...
Lord Greaves | 724 c144 (Link to this contribution) The point I am attempting to make is not that the time that has been used up on these two amendments...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c144 (Link to this contribution) Noble Lords might laugh but it is appropriate that we do things in the right and proper way. This Ho...
Lord Greaves | 724 c144 (Link to this contribution) There is a certain amount of this that I can listen to, but after a while I find that I cannot liste...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c143 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I make this application with a view to the House adjourning. Noble Lords will know that th...
Lord Trefgarne | 724 c138 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do so insist. Division on Motion that the Question be now put. Contents 219; Not-Conte...
Lord Judd | 724 c136-7 (Link to this contribution) If I had not already intended to intervene, the remarks of the noble Lord the Leader of the House ce...
Lord Trefgarne | 724 c137 (Link to this contribution) Moved by That the Question be now put.
Lord Trefgarne | 724 c138 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have listened to a number of speeches this evening. Many of them are an abuse of the pro...
Baroness Hayman | 724 c138 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Companion is very clear as to the procedure when a Motion that the Question be now put...
Lord Soley | 724 c134 (Link to this contribution) I am serious. Let us hear the arguments for a moment. I have brought forward considerable evidence t...
Lord Wills | 724 c134-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I had thought that the noble Lord had given way to me, but I hope that I can now make the ...
Baroness McDonagh | 724 c154 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for that intervention. I hope that noble Lords opposite will not see these p...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c154 (Link to this contribution) I am awfully sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, is not in the Chamber, because he could suppor...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 724 c154 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is being overly generous to the Government. We are seeing the first part of PR put i...
Lord Glentoran | 724 c154 (Link to this contribution) I just wanted to answer that point.
Baroness McDonagh | 724 c154 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may answer my noble friend’s point. I will then be happy to give way to the noble Lord.
Lord Glentoran | 724 c155 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness. I have two or three points to make. I did not talk to anybody to get my ...
Baroness McDonagh | 724 c154-5 (Link to this contribution) No, it is my point to answer, I believe. I shall be happy to give way to the noble Lord afterwards, ...
Lord Kinnock | 724 c156-7 (Link to this contribution) While the House reflects on the fascinating question that my noble friend raised about the evaporati...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c155-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I very much welcome the contribution by the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran. We have been looki...
Lord Greaves | 724 c147 (Link to this contribution) I suppose that I ought to thank the noble and learned Lord for that apology. I can say to him and to...
Lord Boswell of Aynho | 724 c149 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Baroness acknowledge that under the present arrangements, some of us, myself included...
Baroness McDonagh | 724 c147-9 (Link to this contribution) I have asked for this amendment to stand alone in the group. I believe that it is right to get on wi...
Baroness McDonagh | 724 c147 (Link to this contribution) 61: Clause 11, page 9, line 18, leave out ““600”” and insert ““630””
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c147 (Link to this contribution) That is what I thought, but I was obviously wrong. Amendment 61 Moved by
Lord Winston | 724 c153 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Anderson was so quick on his feet that I did not have a chance to ask my noble ...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c151-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend has made a persuasive case that has drawn on her personal experience in a ...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c151 (Link to this contribution) Although the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, is no longer in his place, I am certain that the noble Lo...
Baroness McDonagh | 724 c149-51 (Link to this contribution) The difference in the situation proposed under the legislation from that which has formerly been is ...
Baroness McDonagh | 724 c153 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend and I shall deal with all three interventions, as well as that of the noble ...
Baroness Nye | 724 c161-2 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Lady McDonagh. I have worked with my noble friend over many years. On matt...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c161 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend makes an extremely important point. With the abolition of bodies such as the Human F...
Lord McAvoy | 724 c163 (Link to this contribution) On Corby, I agree with and understand my noble friend’s point about Scotland. Is she aware that ther...
Baroness Billingham | 724 c162-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like to speak about something slightly different, but I am pleased to support the...
Lord Snape | 724 c165 (Link to this contribution) As the mover of the next amendment, let me just assure my noble friend that there will be no fancy m...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 724 c165 (Link to this contribution) It is interesting that the noble Baroness suggests that. When I looked in more detail at the combina...
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 724 c164-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady McDonagh, for the way in which she moved her ame...
Baroness Billingham | 724 c163-4 (Link to this contribution) I most certainly am aware of that. On a Friday night, if you asked anyone in Corby, ““What are you d...
Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 724 c165 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I could postulate another figure, given the nature of the debate. Could we maybe go for 666?...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 724 c165 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when I saw the amendment on the Marshalled List, I thought that we would have a very diffe...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c159 (Link to this contribution) I cannot, of course, speak for the Front Bench of the Labour Party, but in my own view it should be ...
Lord Glentoran | 724 c159 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am so sorry to interrupt the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, once again, but he is giving us a...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c157-8 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, as my noble friend suggests, they tug their forelocks quite obsessively. My noble friend mak...
Lord Winston | 724 c160-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to delay the House very much, but my noble friend has talked about committees. Is it n...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c160 (Link to this contribution) I had the temerity to touch on that, too, but I did not have time—because I did not wish to detain t...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c160 (Link to this contribution) I was not talking about finding people to be members but getting them to attend.
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c160 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Anderson of Swansea must not tempt me to repeat myself. We must not repeat ours...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c160 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend has given some examples of the increased workload on Members of Parliament: for exam...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c159-60 (Link to this contribution) I completely agree with my noble friend. I have said that I do not think it is appropriate for Gover...
Lord Kinnock | 724 c159 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend moves on to that point, in response to the interesting point raised by the no...
Lord Bach | 724 c179 (Link to this contribution) Well, other countries, as the noble Lord knows, work under a written constitution, and to change the...
Lord Kinnock | 724 c179 (Link to this contribution) Could he also add that the British system, as it has existed since 1949 in the establishment of the ...
Lord Bach | 724 c179-80 (Link to this contribution) That analysis also must be correct. It is not something that any Government, of whatever political c...
Lord McNally | 724 c180 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, hearing that the son of the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, is watching, I am reminded that the ...
Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 724 c175 (Link to this contribution) I may be a new Member of this House, but I know that you do not get sequential interventions without...
Lord Liddle | 724 c175-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment. I strongly believe that we need a larger House of Commons than 60...
Lord Bach | 724 c177-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Committee owe a great debt of thanks to my noble friend Lady McDonagh for moving the a...
Lord Rennard | 724 c179 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord suggests that it would be ““a grievous fault”” for Parliament to fix a precise number...
Baroness Mallalieu | 724 c171-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to that person who knew him. In those days, a Member of Parliament was not required or...
Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 724 c173-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have heard a number of powerful speeches tonight, not least from the noble Baroness, La...
Baroness Mallalieu | 724 c170-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that the House will forgive that I was unable to speak on Second Reading on the Bil...
Lord Kinnock | 724 c175 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend sits down, I ask her to reflect on the fact that, during this debate, I have ...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 724 c166 (Link to this contribution) I would expect nothing less. However, 640 has the virtue of being the product of only two prime num...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 724 c167-70 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend makes a very good point, but I will not go down that road. It is interesting that it...
Lord Trimble | 724 c170 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I had thought of intervening during the speech of the noble Lord, Lord O’Neill, but it occ...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 724 c166-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I come to this debate remembering what my noble friend Lady McDonagh said at the beginning...
Lord Snape | 724 c167 (Link to this contribution) It is not just in Scotland, of course, where the Conservative Party has messed up local government. ...
Baroness Nye | 724 c183-4 (Link to this contribution) The Minister was answering a point that I made in my speech. I should like him to help me a little m...
Lord McNally | 724 c184 (Link to this contribution) I do not know. I really do not know. You could then ask why we did not choose 584. We have put a num...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 724 c183 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the noble Lord and to the House if I seem to be labouring this point, but I do not un...
Lord McNally | 724 c183 (Link to this contribution) They were chosen because they are sensible for achieving the objectives of the Bill. There is such a...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c183 (Link to this contribution) We now have a new explanation that has not been before the House so far. Like me, the noble Lord kno...
Lord McNally | 724 c183 (Link to this contribution) Wow, what a finish! It gives equal value to each vote—an objective that I would have thought the Opp...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 724 c182 (Link to this contribution) I am quite happy to recast my argument not in terms of prime numbers and numbers of seats, but to co...
Lord McNally | 724 c182 (Link to this contribution) We may well come on to it, but 76,000 and 600 are sensible numbers which achieve the objective of th...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c183 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is answering a question which his noble friend the Leader of the House was unable to an...
Lord McNally | 724 c183 (Link to this contribution) I hope people will read these interventions and make their own assessment of them. I do not read int...
Lord McNally | 724 c182 (Link to this contribution) I know; that is why I looked over. If 1832 was the last time, I am pleased to know that there is tha...
Lord McNally | 724 c182 (Link to this contribution) I disagree. On the question of when Parliament last made such changes, the noble Baroness, Lady Far...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 724 c182 (Link to this contribution) The changes in the boundaries in my constituency, as in others, were always subject to a clear set o...
Lord McNally | 724 c181 (Link to this contribution) It may well have been, but the fact is that Lord Callaghan acted as he did at the time, probably—I a...
Lord Bach | 724 c181 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord agree that what Lord Callaghan said was true, and that constituencies are not me...
Lord McNally | 724 c180-1 (Link to this contribution) On those constitutional reforms, we very rarely went with the Conservatives. On the CRAG Bill, as th...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c181 (Link to this contribution) Is it not right that part of the manoeuvring involved a Bill that attempted to suspend the effect of...
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 724 c180 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord not agree that we should place on record what happened to our legislation 12 mo...
Lord Tyler | 724 c208 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for sitting down; I have the greatest respect for him as a fellow Co...
Baroness Taylor of Bolton | 724 c204-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am reluctant to intervene in this debate because I have spent a lot of time over the las...
Lord Snape | 724 c208 (Link to this contribution) Some of us who wrote letters to Ministers sometimes got the impression that Ministers never read the...
Lord Myners | 724 c208 (Link to this contribution) I have to say to my noble friend that, when I first came into government, I inherited nearly 3,000 u...
Lord Kinnock | 724 c207 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend leaves the question relating to the Leader of the House, which is directly ge...
Lord Myners | 724 c207-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Kinnock for that perceptive observation. In some ways, some of...
Viscount Astor | 724 c207 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord going to address the amendment or just make a speech on a totally different issue?...
Lord Myners | 724 c207 (Link to this contribution) Of course I am addressing the amendment; it is good to see the noble Viscount in his place at this p...
Lord Myners | 724 c206-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak as someone who did not have experience in the other place. I have been struck thro...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c207 (Link to this contribution) It would not matter if he were in an intemperate mood now, because it is not his shift.
Lord McAvoy | 724 c202-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to bring to the House some experience of having had to go through a purely nu...
Lord Lipsey | 724 c201-2 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to my noble friend; that is extremely helpful. If there were a Speaker’s Conferen...
Lord Rooker | 724 c198-201 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to try to answer the question asked by my noble friend Lord Winston, because ...
Lord Lipsey | 724 c201 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise relatively briefly, certainly by the standard of some of the proceedings that have ...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c201 (Link to this contribution) It would be a substantial step in the direction of the Scottish Parliament, but almost certainly not...
Lord Snape | 724 c191 (Link to this contribution) 62: Clause 11, page 9, line 18, leave out ““600”” and insert ““640””
Lord Snape | 724 c191-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am now faced with a rather impossible task. The noble Lord, Lord McNally, who is about t...
Lord Grocott | 724 c193-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I very much agree with my noble friend’s comments, although I would not be happy even with...
Lord Winston | 724 c195-6 (Link to this contribution) I do not in any way wish to be political and I certainly do not want to be accused of filibuster, wh...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c189-91 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for that masterful intervention. Things got rather muddled because t...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 724 c189 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that mutual recrimination is getting the Committee very far. The noble and learned Lo...
Lord Greaves | 724 c188-9 (Link to this contribution) I am not quite sure why the noble Baroness, Lady Farrington, calls me in evidence. The Countryside a...
Lord Grocott | 724 c187 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord should make the intervention if he wants to do this, because, believe me—
Lord McNally | 724 c187 (Link to this contribution) Everyone sitting there knows that every Government has negotiations between the usual channels. I kn...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c187 (Link to this contribution) Lords reform—I think the noble Lord, Lord McNally’s memory is failing.
Lord Glentoran | 724 c187-8 (Link to this contribution) I very well remember the access to the countryside Bill, because I was sitting where the noble Lord,...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c187 (Link to this contribution) I was a government Whip during the whole of the Labour Government, and on every single occasion, we ...
Lord McNally | 724 c187 (Link to this contribution) You never heard a government Minister from your side when you were trying to get through 13 differen...
Lord Grocott | 724 c186 (Link to this contribution) Would my noble and learned friend comment again briefly? There was an accusation in the remarks of t...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c186 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. It was three hours and fifty minutes ago that I made the...
Lord Grocott | 724 c187 (Link to this contribution) When I was Chief Whip, there was never an occasion when there was no time imperative when we tried t...
Lord McNally | 724 c187 (Link to this contribution) This House has made these decisions. It is not the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, who decides what has be...
Lord McNally | 724 c184 (Link to this contribution) I will try again. The two numbers are sensible numbers to achieve the objectives of the Bill. I was ...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c184-5 (Link to this contribution) The value of the saving that the noble Lord is talking about is roughly equivalent to the bonus of o...
Lord McNally | 724 c185 (Link to this contribution) I have to confess that I go off at 3 o’clock. The reason I was talking is that I had not noticed tha...
Baroness McDonagh | 724 c185-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for responding to the points raised in the debate and I thank everyone for thei...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c233-6 (Link to this contribution) It was good of the Leader of the House to pop in during our debate to see how things were moving, be...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c228 (Link to this contribution) There are some historic precedents. I think of CFG Masterman who, in about 1915, as a Liberal at the...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c228 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. That was not the only disaster happening at the time, as we know.
Lord Kinnock | 724 c228-33 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I strongly support the amendment moved by my noble friend Lord Kennedy proposing that the ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c228 (Link to this contribution) They are not only unhappy precedents; they are unusual. I do not want them to become the rule as tha...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c227 (Link to this contribution) Outrageous, as my noble friend rightly says. We managed to keep four constituencies in Ayrshire out ...
Lord Knight of Weymouth | 724 c228 (Link to this contribution) I should point out that I am the last person to have attended full Cabinet who was a Member of neith...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c228 (Link to this contribution) Yes, we will have PPS squared. On a more serious point, in one of the replies to an earlier debate,...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c226-7 (Link to this contribution) A maiden speech, yes. I am taking noble Lords on a tour and I hope that some noble Lords will join m...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c225-6 (Link to this contribution) As my noble friend says, everyone else does. These Members of Parliament are just beginning to find...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c224-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is a great pleasure for me to make my first speech of the day. I was just thinking, as ...
Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 724 c222-4 (Link to this contribution) The constitutional significance of the Bill cannot be overstated. It is very regrettable that there ...
Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 724 c222 (Link to this contribution) 63: Clause 11, page 9, line 18, leave out ““600”” and insert ““650””
Lord Snape | 724 c222 (Link to this contribution) Lunch, indeed. Until dinner, as far as some of my noble friends are concerned. Bearing in mind the e...
Lord Snape | 724 c222 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. My noble friends may scoff, but it did me no harm at successive general elections, so I will...
Lord Snape | 724 c220-1 (Link to this contribution) Yes, Mr Nice versus Mr Nasty at the Dispatch Box. Lord Nice, fine. We will agree to that. One or tw...
Lord Snape | 724 c221 (Link to this contribution) No questions on policy. In my constituency, they were quite happy to leave that sort of nonsense to ...
Lord Snape | 724 c221 (Link to this contribution) Or on something, I think is the proper description. My noble friend Lady Taylor rightly talked about...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c217-9 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is not comparing like with like. I said it is impossible to work out a mathematical f...
Lord Snape | 724 c219-20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lords who have participated in this debate. Again, it is instructive abo...
Lord McAvoy | 724 c219 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not intervening on the Minister, but I am clarifying that in 1999, George Robertson r...
Lord Boateng | 724 c210-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I find myself energised by the contribution of my noble friend Lord Myners, at a time when...
Lord Myners | 724 c209-10 (Link to this contribution) I note the observation and the support that my noble friend Lord Winston offers in that respect, but...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c217 (Link to this contribution) If mathematical formulae do not work, why are the Government determined to impose a quota of 76,000 ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c217 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, at one point in the debate, the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, said that he wondered if Ministe...
Lord Bach | 724 c216 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I can be fairly brief. I thank my noble friend Lord Snape and all the others who have spok...
Lord Morris of Handsworth | 724 c215-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, with my background, noble Lords will understand if I gaze at the Clock and have in mind th...
Lord Winston | 724 c208-9 (Link to this contribution) I find it distasteful to criticise the Leader of the House while he is not in the Chamber, but I thi...
Lord Myners | 724 c208 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, for that assistance. I recognise that I am very ne...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c238-9 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that I was wrong. I was right at the time, and I believe I was right because the pos...
Lord Touhig | 724 c239 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend but is he not encouraged that this is the ninth day of the debate a...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c239 (Link to this contribution) I hate making a partisan point but when I see Welsh Liberal Democrats I am reminded of the saying, “...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 724 c239-42 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to this amendment not having spoken before in any of the debates about the number of...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 724 c242 (Link to this contribution) Does my noble friend realise that everything she is saying is borne out in the Liberal Democrat mani...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 724 c242 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for that. I believe that as politicians—I was concerned about how the Leader...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 724 c242 (Link to this contribution) Did the noble Baroness support proportional representation in the devolution debates in Scotland and...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 724 c242 (Link to this contribution) I was a member of the Government and there is collective responsibility in government, even though t...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 724 c242 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has not answered the question.
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 724 c242-3 (Link to this contribution) I am answering the question. I believe in collective responsibility. I supported that because I supp...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 724 c236-7 (Link to this contribution) We have had the benefit of two distinguished and prominent Welshmen discussing, for 40 minutes, main...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c237-8 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may finish my argument and then the noble Lord can come back. I made the point, which I th...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c237 (Link to this contribution) I shall respond very readily but shall perhaps not take as long as the quarter of an hour that the n...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 724 c238 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is as reactionary today on this issue as he was in 1979 in that a moment ago he accep...
Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 724 c238 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for giving way but the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, mentioned the Welsh...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c238 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. I could write a book about our experiences at that time. I could speak not just for the ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c254-5 (Link to this contribution) Yes, but there is a distinction, which I drew attention to before, between the House of Commons and ...
Lord McNally | 724 c255 (Link to this contribution) I know how dearly the noble Lord appreciates that right. Does he realise that that right was lost in...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c253 (Link to this contribution) I was going to come on to that. I have found references in the Sessional Returns to committees not b...
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 724 c254 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend may not be aware that we have had similar problems in the past in this House. About ...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c255 (Link to this contribution) Does my noble friend construe that intervention by the noble Lord, Lord McNally, as a threat?
Lord McNally | 724 c255 (Link to this contribution) It was not a threat, but I have spent all my political life learning the lessons of history.
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c255 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord got the century wrong—it was the 20th century.
Lord McNally | 724 c255 (Link to this contribution) Sorry, it was the 19th century. Go to the Library.
Lord McNally | 724 c255 (Link to this contribution) Whichever party I have been in.
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c250-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I take a somewhat flexible view on the future size of the House of Commons, although I sup...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c252 (Link to this contribution) No, before the noble Lord, Lord Sheldon. It was my noble friend, the former Treasury Minister.
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c252 (Link to this contribution) That was it. My noble friend Lord Barnett was the first chairman, and he was followed by my noble fr...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c253 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is correct. He is emphasising the fact that certain committees—I referred to the Int...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 724 c252-3 (Link to this contribution) I understand the point that the noble Lord is making about the demands on Members of the House of Co...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c253 (Link to this contribution) From my experience, it is certainly true that the popular committees—the Treasury Committee, the For...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c261 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I listened carefully to the noble Lord, Lord Low. Finger-waving and dismissing a whole gro...
Lord McNally | 724 c260-1 (Link to this contribution) I am not digging; I desperately want to save the principles of self-regulation of this House from be...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c260 (Link to this contribution) I was referring to what the noble Lord said. I cannot think of any other reason why the noble Lord, ...
Lord McNally | 724 c260 (Link to this contribution) It is precisely the words that he used: ““if self-regulating is to survive””. He knows, as would any...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c258-60 (Link to this contribution) Well, my Lords, this has been an interesting debate, particularly so at the end. I shall deal first ...
Lord McNally | 724 c260 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord just said, "““if self-regulating is to survive””." What does he mean by ...
Lord McNally | 724 c258 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may intervene. The noble and learned Lord is a grand old parliamentarian who can spot an o...
Lord Morris of Aberavon | 724 c258 (Link to this contribution) I have no intention of spinning and I have not said a word so far. I know that the noble Lord is con...
Lord Low of Dalston | 724 c256-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have not had any hours of sleep during the night, I am sorry to say, but happily the Cro...
Lord McNally | 724 c257 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord, Lord Low, aware, that before this Bill entered the House, my noble friend Lord Sh...
Lord Peston | 724 c257 (Link to this contribution) I assume that the noble Lord, Lord McNally, does not want to mislead your Lordships’ House intention...
Lord Greaves | 724 c256 (Link to this contribution) Nothing changes. I leave the Chamber and I have some sleep and it is like a bad recurring dream, exc...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c256 (Link to this contribution) It is very easy interesting to hear the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, say that, because I can think of i...
Lord Greaves | 724 c256 (Link to this contribution) The rule that I am referring to is that you do not speak for more than 15 minutes. That is a rule to...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c256 (Link to this contribution) He seems to have moved from the Companion to the rule book. I have always seen a distinction between...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c255 (Link to this contribution) I thought that the noble Lord was referring to the introduction or the greater use of the guillotine...
Lord Morris of Aberavon | 724 c258 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may make a very short intervention. I was astonished to hear the noble Lord, Lor...
Lord Liddle | 724 c248-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak for a second time on the question of opposing an arbitrary reduction in the size o...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 724 c247-8 (Link to this contribution) That issue was lost because Wales, in 1979, had no confidence in itself as a nation community. That ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 724 c247 (Link to this contribution) I refuse to withdraw it because I was part of that campaign, and I know perfectly well that that was...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c247 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Thomas, is altering his tune now. His allegation was not that the language issu...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 724 c246-7 (Link to this contribution) Many issues that had nothing at all to do with devolution did play a part. I can well remember peopl...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 724 c246 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the noble Lord was asleep when the noble Lords, Lord Kinnock and Lord Anderson, we...
Lord Greaves | 724 c250 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord, at 7.58 am, be fortified by the knowledge that I agree with him?
Lord Liddle | 724 c250 (Link to this contribution) That is a great comfort to me at this stage of the day. I am very attracted to an arrangement that w...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 724 c250 (Link to this contribution) So that we know where the noble Lord is coming from—and we do welcome him to this House from his day...
Lord Liddle | 724 c250 (Link to this contribution) I have made my views clear on all of those things since I have been on the Labour Benches. Indeed, I...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c243 (Link to this contribution) What the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, is not admitting is that he is opposed to AV. He is in...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 724 c243 (Link to this contribution) There was much discussion in Wales, and there were different groupings in Wales that brought that fo...
Baroness Ford | 724 c244 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Lord Kennedy in his amendment, which is the crucial amendment. I am compel...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 724 c243-4 (Link to this contribution) I see this as an issue for democracy, which is under enormous threat in this country as well as othe...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 724 c243 (Link to this contribution) There was a convention in Wales. Did the noble Baroness support proportional representation in Wales...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 724 c246 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, caused me a most unhappy flashback when he referr...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c244 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for reminding me of that. The presence of the noble and learned Lor...
Baroness Ford | 724 c244-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for that. On a more serious point, I was born in that constituency. At that t...
Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 724 c245 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend rightly pays tribute to Sir Fitzroy Maclean. He was a Conservative Member of Parliam...
Baroness Ford | 724 c245-6 (Link to this contribution) The point about Sir Fitzroy Maclean was that wherever he went in the constituency, he was instantly ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c265-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have now been going from 3.15 pm, when we started the debate on going into Committee. I...
Lord Knight of Weymouth | 724 c268 (Link to this contribution) 63YA: Clause 11, page 9, line 18, leave out ““600”” and insert ““decided once the membership and pow...
Lord Low of Dalston | 724 c266-8 (Link to this contribution) I support the Motion moved by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer of Thoroton. From my standpo...
Lord Dubs | 724 c271 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to follow my noble friend’s argument because until his last comment I was, by and large,...
Lord Knight of Weymouth | 724 c268-71 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there appears to be daylight outside. I think that we have missed the dawn chorus but in h...
Baroness Smith of Basildon | 724 c271 (Link to this contribution) It may be because of a lack of sleep on my part as well, but I struggle to understand how a 15-year ...
Lord Knight of Weymouth | 724 c271 (Link to this contribution) I have been so enthusiastic to move this amendment—I have been waiting for the past 15 hours—but I d...
Baroness Wall of New Barnet | 724 c271 (Link to this contribution) We have talked a lot over the last 15 hours about the supremacy of the other House. How will that be...
Lord Knight of Weymouth | 724 c271 (Link to this contribution) My view is that that would achieve good progression from where we are now in terms of appointment. H...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c261 (Link to this contribution) On that basis, I will take my cue and respond to a debate which started two hours and 50 minutes ago...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c261 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I have bad news: there is no more; it is complete.
Lord Eden of Winton | 724 c261 (Link to this contribution) Are we not anxious to hear the rest of the speech of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer?
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c263 (Link to this contribution) I think that the noble Lord has given us the benefit of his views at some length. It is important t...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c262-3 (Link to this contribution) There is a world of difference between saying it is a modest amount, which it is, and just dismissin...
Lord Kinnock | 724 c262 (Link to this contribution) When the noble Lord checks Hansard when today’s proceedings are available, he will see himself descr...
Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 724 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace of Tankerness, for his response, and all other nobl...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 724 c263-4 (Link to this contribution) One further matter has not been addressed in any way by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace. Th...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c263 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister tell us when a Government last fixed the total number of seats to come out of the b...
Lord Knight of Weymouth | 724 c278 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for allowing me to clarify that regional lists would be published i...
Baroness Smith of Basildon | 724 c278 (Link to this contribution) I should like to develop that point about the 15-year electoral term and my intervention on my noble...
Lord Dubs | 724 c278 (Link to this contribution) I understand what my noble friend is saying but I am still pretty concerned about it. When we talk a...
Lord McAvoy | 724 c277 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to intervene on my noble friend. I was thinking about the last few seconds of what he was...
Lord Prescott | 724 c279-82 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I must add my name to the list of those confused after the introduction of the amendments....
Lord Dubs | 724 c278-9 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I entirely follow my noble friend’s argument. My case against a 15-year term is t...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c289 (Link to this contribution) Does a large amount of that work not come from people who are not even on the electoral roll?
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c282-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree with my noble friend Lord Knight of Weymouth that it is not sensible to set about ...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 724 c275 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord is passing from the topic he has been dealing with, I wonder whether his memory is...
Lord Grocott | 724 c272-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, mine is the second amendment in this group, and under normal circumstances I would have sp...
Lord Tyler | 724 c271-2 (Link to this contribution) I think it is time for somebody on this side of the House to address this issue. I have the greatest...
Lord Brabazon of Tara | 724 c271 (Link to this contribution) I remind the Committee that if this amendment is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment 63YB or 63YC.
Lord Knight of Weymouth | 724 c271 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, the crucial issue for the Members of the other place in supporting any reform here is they ...
Lord Grocott | 724 c276-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my confusion is now explained in that the noble Lord, Lord Lester, is referring to 1996. T...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 724 c276 (Link to this contribution) That is not what I said. What I said was that there was a deal in opposition between the two opposit...
Lord Grocott | 724 c276 (Link to this contribution) I think that last remark was a little unkind, as I have been here throughout these debates and we ha...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 724 c275 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is perfectly right, and I would like to pay one compliment to the noble Lord, Lord G...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c275 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord replies to that, can my noble friend tell me whether his memory serves him suf...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 724 c324 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn. It may be helpful if I confirm that the House...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c317-8 (Link to this contribution) There is an awfully long queue of new Peers and hopeful Peers who would like to come in. Publishing ...
Lord Grocott | 724 c319-20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this will be the last amendment before we need to conclude the proceedings of this day’s C...
Lord Bach | 724 c320-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as ever, my noble friend Lord Grocott has come forward with an ingenious plan that the Gov...
Lord Knight of Weymouth | 724 c318-9 (Link to this contribution) We have had an excellent debate, and I do not want to delay the House for very long. It was signific...
Lord Grocott | 724 c319 (Link to this contribution) 63YC: Clause 11, page 9, line 18, leave out ““600”” and insert a ““maximum of 650 and at each bounda...
Lord McNally | 724 c322 (Link to this contribution) I was especially chosen to answer this amendment to ensure that it was responded to in an emollient ...
Lord Grocott | 724 c322-3 (Link to this contribution) I suggest that the noble Lord still needs a bit of practice in the art of emollient speaking but it ...
Lord McNally | 724 c322 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in introducing the amendment, the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, reminded us that three new Pee...
Lord Grocott | 724 c322 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have already said that I have no intention of going beyond 1 pm on this. Should I wish t...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 724 c323 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will wait; I think that it will be preferable for the usual channels to be in position f...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c314-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am delighted to hear the noble and learned Lord say that he did not agree with the amend...
Lord Peston | 724 c315 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde. I welcome his friendly remarks. However, does he remember ...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 724 c315 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is very interesting to hear the Leader of the House telling us how difficult it is to u...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c315-6 (Link to this contribution) Our policy is crystal clear. There should be 600 Members of Parliament in the House of Commons, 50 f...
Lord Soley | 724 c316 (Link to this contribution) Definitely. First, a number of us have been saying for some years that there is a case for reducing ...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c316 (Link to this contribution) I must admit that I have not done a great study of this, but I am reminded that the noble Lord, Lord...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 724 c316 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Leader of the House, his noble friend Lord McNally and even the courteous noble and le...
Lord Grocott | 724 c317 (Link to this contribution) If that is the Leader of House’s objective, why does he not start work on that now by stopping any a...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c316-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for giving us that information. She asked the question...
Lord Triesman | 724 c308-11 (Link to this contribution) Like my noble friend Lord Young, I have not spoken in this debate at all. Were it not for the issue ...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 724 c308 (Link to this contribution) Some were, but many more were from Liberal Democrats and Conservatives. I have no complaint about th...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 724 c307-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have not participated in this to date, but we seem to have combined two amendments at th...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 724 c306-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for reminding me of an unfortunate fact. We all lament the very lim...
Lord Kinnock | 724 c306 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. Can I take advantage of his experience and perspicacity? Does he t...
Lord Trimble | 724 c311 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to cut short the noble Lord’s apologies, but I wanted to come in before he sat down. I f...
Lord Triesman | 724 c311-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, for putting that point to me. I suppose that the fundamental p...
Lord McNally | 724 c304 (Link to this contribution) I do not in the slightest, but I will give another analogy. The reason why we have the Salisbury/Add...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c303-4 (Link to this contribution) It is not that I have to apologise but that the noble Lord raised the question of the guillotine dur...
Lord McNally | 724 c304 (Link to this contribution) I am the last one to tell the noble Lord not to get aerated but, as my noble friend reminded us a li...
Lord Soley | 724 c304 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is making a fundamental mistake. Actually, I am sure that it is not a mistake as he k...
Lord McNally | 724 c303 (Link to this contribution) Fortunately, in the 21st century, it is possible to follow the proceedings while moving some paper—a...
Lord Peston | 724 c303 (Link to this contribution) I had really sat down, so I hope the noble Lord will accept that I do not have to reply.
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 724 c304 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was the one who introduced the word ““guillotine””. I did it yesterday at col. 16, and I...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 724 c304 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, for whom I have the highest regard, was more aerated than he recollects. Not only di...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 724 c305 (Link to this contribution) They were very different from that. It was, I thought, utterly uncharacteristic of a gentleman for w...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c299 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Baroness really does think that, what impact does she think that substantial reduction ...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 724 c299-300 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for giving way. When I came to this House about 16 years ago, it...
Baroness Quin | 724 c299 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is referring to the time when most of the hereditary Peers were removed from this Hou...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c299 (Link to this contribution) What the noble Baroness says is interesting but I am confused by the strand of her argument. Ten yea...
Baroness Quin | 724 c299 (Link to this contribution) In most countries where there is a bicameral system and a revising Chamber, the revising Chamber is ...
Lord Mawhinney | 724 c302 (Link to this contribution) Maybe I am a dinosaur too, but I have been listening carefully to what the noble Lord has been sayin...
Baroness Quin | 724 c300-1 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the noble Lord is not accusing me of filibustering. I have sat through a great deal of t...
Lord Peston | 724 c301-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, one of my noble friends earlier referred to dinosaurs. I am a dinosaur. I think that it is...
Lord Mawhinney | 724 c303 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way again. I think I promise not to do it a third time. I...
Lord Puttnam | 724 c290-2 (Link to this contribution) I warmly support my noble friend Lord Grocott. I bow to no one in your Lordships’ House as a reforme...
Baroness Smith of Basildon | 724 c289-90 (Link to this contribution) Certainly, there is an element of that. It is a real problem, especially when we are looking at the ...
Lord Puttnam | 724 c292 (Link to this contribution) That is very much the point that I wanted to make. I imagine that the reaction around the House migh...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c292 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may take my noble friend back to the Environmental Audit Committee. It is possible that I ...
Lord Puttnam | 724 c293 (Link to this contribution) I will wind up with one final point. I see that the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, is in his place; he may ...
Lord Desai | 724 c293-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I briefly looked in on the debate of the students. When I heard the conclusion that they c...
Lord McAvoy | 724 c294-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not too keen on the amendments in this group either, which is unusual, because usuall...
Baroness Sherlock | 724 c296-8 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Lord Knight of Weymouth, but sadly for different reasons. His advocacy for...
Baroness Quin | 724 c298 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to have the opportunity to follow the thoughtful speech of my noble fri...
Baroness Smith of Basildon | 724 c285-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise with some relief. After 19 hours of debate, I wondered if we would ever get to this...
Lord Radice | 724 c125 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that may well be so but it was a sensible way of proceeding on a very controversial issue—more ...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c129 (Link to this contribution) I am infinitely obliged to the noble Lord. He is always rigorous and helpful to the House in exactly...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 724 c92-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, has thrown in our face the deal done in 1997 or 1998 over the futu...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 724 c60 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has been talking for more than five minutes. Since I am not listening to him on compu...
Lord Rooker | 724 c56 (Link to this contribution) I am reluctant to intervene on a former Speaker, but I can assure the noble Lord that when my majori...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c59 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when the noble Lord talks about the need to reduce the number of constituencies, I suggest...
Lord Wills | 724 c35-8 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment, in the sense that I understand it to be a probing amendment about the Gover...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 724 c52-4 (Link to this contribution) There are all sorts of possibilities. Happily, the Government’s business managers have ensured that ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c22 (Link to this contribution) I agree with all of that. I very much hope that we would not succumb to that temptation, but once th...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 724 c21 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, forgive me but, on a point of information for the House, I respectfully remind the House t...
Lord McNally | 724 c181 (Link to this contribution) To a certain extent, but even the noble Lord, Lord O’Neill, having made the same sort of point, then...
Baroness Smith of Basildon | 724 c196-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I had not intended to speak in this debate, and I was hoping that the noble Lord, Lord Sna...
Lord Kinnock | 724 c184 (Link to this contribution) We used to be against deference as well, didn’t we? On a very serious point, does the Minister recal...
Lord Boateng | 724 c212-5 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to rise to the temptation that the noble Lord, Lord Myners, casts in front of me. I d...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 724 c237 (Link to this contribution) I will never forget it. That was the basis of the noble Lord’s opposition to devolution. It took his...
Lord Low of Dalston | 724 c258 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord McNally, for clarifying the situation. When I have finished, I...
Lord Dubs | 724 c277-8 (Link to this contribution) I have waited all night to make a small contribution to this debate, so I am glad to have the chance...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 724 c305-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am certainly not prepared to be part of any filibuster, and there has been no filibuster...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 724 c312-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, these two amendments rather bring it all together. The effect of my noble friend Lord Knig...
Lord Peston | 724 c302-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord ought to look at the history of filibustering, particularly its origins. By no standa...
Lord Trefgarne | 724 c145 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble and learned Lord complained that I had brought the debate to a close. I did noth...
Lord Grocott | 724 c277 (Link to this contribution) I am not really in a fit state to respond: I am still recovering from the blow that was delivered by...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c315 (Link to this contribution) That strikes me as an eminently sensible way of doing business, but in those days we were dealing wi...
Lord Strathclyde | 724 c308 (Link to this contribution) How many of those amendments were from his own side?
Baroness Wall of New Barnet | 724 c292 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am aware of the noble Lord’s commitment to the debate involving the young people, which ...
Lord McAvoy | 724 c123-4 (Link to this contribution) With the benefit of hindsight, yes, I think it would—if the noble Baroness allows me to answer becau...
Lord Soley | 724 c97-8 (Link to this contribution) I thought that the noble Lord was agreeing with me, but I might be wrong. Let us make no bones about...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 724 c74 (Link to this contribution) In my experience, different Members of Parliament have different ways in which they think they shoul...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 724 c60-1 (Link to this contribution) On the first question, if you look at the history of the development of the House of Commons, it has...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 724 c68 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend sits down, will he comment on the intervention from the noble Lord, Lord Tyle...
Lady Saltoun of Abernethy | 724 c18 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wonder if I could ask a brief question: what is all the hurry about? Why do we have to h...
Subjects
Boundary commissions
Constituency size
Constituencies
Electoral register
House of Lords composition
Members
Peers
Reform
Legislation
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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