Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

My Lords, I find myself energised by the contribution of my noble friend Lord Myners, at a time when I thought only a double espresso would do. His contribution has woken me up and got me thinking. We owe him a debt of gratitude for building on the contribution of my noble friend who moved this amendment. I hesitate to use the term ““GOATs””, because it implies that the rest of us are sheep and separating the sheep from the goats, but from time to time a fresh look at these issues is useful from someone who is not as inured to and hardened against the political processes as those of us old sweats. We have had that this morning from my noble friend Lord Myners. My noble friend got me thinking about the challenges that we face in considering this Bill, particularly this section of it, and in defining what exactly we want from constituencies and from individual Members of Parliament and their relationship with those constituencies. It would be sad if those observing these proceedings were to take the view that we were polarised across the political process on different sides of the House about the special relationship between constituencies and Members of Parliament, and about the value of proceeding not by arbitrary diktat but by considered inquiry based on the evidence. I looked at what had been said by members of the party opposite in the other place, who helped us in more reflective and considered times to address the need for reform. There is a need for reform. It would be quite wrong to seek to divide this House on the basis that those on this side of it were against all reform, were complacent and self-satisfied as regards existing conditions, and that the energy and drive for progress and reform came only from the Benches opposite. What does energise us on this side of the House is the need for reflection, evidence and a capacity to be, as it were, almost above the fray in determining what the national interest is. I found a useful contribution to the debate in a paper presented to the parliamentary affairs journal of Oxford University Press entitled, ‘Far Too Elaborate About So Little’: New Parliamentary Constituencies for England, by Ron Johnston, David Rossiter and Charles Pattie, three academic, impartial observers of our system. They examined very carefully the views across our Houses about how one should go about identifying and defining constituencies and forming them around viable communities with a link with their elected representatives. The article referred to a contribution from a Conservative Member of Parliament in a Wiltshire constituency on the removal of wards from the large Salisbury constituency. I think that I know who this particular Member of Parliament is but as his name is not cited in the document I do not want to embarrass him by naming him. He loves his constituency and his party but loves his country and the parliamentary system more than both those things. In his oral evidence to the inspector at the inquiry he said that he did not wish to lose a single elector from the constituency. That is something which all of us who have served in the other place understand. Whatever issues we may have with individuals who are perhaps persistent in their letter writing—some of them use green ink, which is always a sign—and appear on a regular basis at one’s constituency surgeries, one grows fond of them. They are part and parcel of the life of the constituency, they have a view and they care and you welcome them and do not want to lose such people through boundary changes. So the local Member did not wish to lose a single elector from his constituency, but he accepted—and we have all had to do this from time to time—the absolute inevitability of the restructuring. He gave a long historical account of the constituency. Frankly, for those of us who served in the other place—and indeed noble Lords such as the noble Lord, Lord Myners, have observed those who served—you actually become quite attached to your constituency and its history. It is important when someone comes in from outside the area to adjudicate on the nature of the constituency boundaries as to whether that person understands the history. One feels duty-bound to go on about it sometimes at length. However, having given this long historical account, he concluded: "““It is not in my nature to resist sensible reform””." All Members on this side of the House can empathise with that. It is not in our nature to resist sensible reform, and I hope that the Minister and his colleagues on the Benches opposite accept that fact, stated in good faith. He goes on to say: "““If it is a judgment of those charged with the care of our democracy””—" That relates exactly to a point that has raised its head time and time again in the course of our debates today. Care for democracy is not the business of Members of Parliament alone. There are advantages to having another source of influence and power outside these Houses of Parliament which has the final and determinate say. We on this side of the House are not saying there is no role for Members of Parliament—far from it—in determining the number of seats. Sure, we have concerns, which my noble friend has sought to tease out in his amendment, about the arbitrary fixing of those numbers of seats, but we do not say that it is a matter for others apart from ourselves alone. However, we recognise that there is an advantage, as a Conservative Member says, of the judgment of those charged with the care of our democracy having a final and determinate say. He goes on to say: "““If it is the judgment of those charged with the care of our democracy that what is proposed is in the national interest, then, provided they will give due consideration to our requests, so be it””." What is important is the proviso, "““provided they will give due consideration to our requests””." What is so offensive about what is proposed by some Members opposite? I do not believe that all Members opposite actually believe in what they are putting before this House. I just do not believe it; because if they have had the experience, which I respect because I served alongside them for many years—experience which we have all had with our constituencies—they know that provided there is an opportunity to express local concerns to ensure that local conditions are taken into account, and that it is not arbitrary and not fixed, and provided there is a space to do that, at the end of the day they are prepared to take whatever it is that emerges from the process. What is not acceptable is this arbitrary figure arrived at we know not how. Having quoted that Conservative Member of Parliament, I shall move on briefly. We do not want excessively to go down memory lane—