Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

My Lords, I too support the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Soley. It is a hugely important issue—I am troubled that there is some appearance on the other side of the House that it is not—for two reasons. First, it is hugely important for this country how our people are represented. The number of Members of Parliament, for all the reasons that have been described previously, is very important. It is also important for the reason put by my noble friend Lord Soley, and mentioned by my noble friend Lady Wall; namely, the example that we set to the rest of the world. Other Members of this House have the experience, as the noble Lord, Lord Soley, spoke about, of the Council of Europe talking to other countries and helping them to build their democracies and their systems. I have that experience, through a slightly different route, through the work that I have done across the world involved with human rights organisations and lawyers’ organisations. I ask myself this question: if they said to me, ““Why have you reduced the number of Members of Parliament? What was the reason for it? What was the rationale? How did you arrive at the number?””, at the moment I can do no better than refer to the answer given to the Select Committee on the Constitution, on which I have the honour to serve. When we pressed the Minister for Political and Constitutional Reform, Mr Mark Harper, with the question, ““Why have you chosen 600?””, he could not answer. He told us that it was not a horse trade and that he did not think that it would qualitatively affect the representation of people in this country. But he could not tell us where the number came from. He ended by saying, and here I quote from paragraph 28 of our report: "““I am not going to pretend that there is a magic science to all this””." I have been listening to cross-examinations all my life, so when someone says that there is no ““magic science”” to something, what they mean is that there is no science at all. There is no basis for this figure. I cannot explain to people across the world why Britain, the cradle of democracy, has chosen this number. They will know that people have accused the Government of looking to find a way of reducing the number of seats for the party in opposition if I cannot even explain the Government’s own view. The merit of both the amendments, although I support the amendment put forward by my noble friend Lord Soley rather than that of my noble friend Lord Lipsey, is that they do two things. They propose a rational way of deciding what the right number should be and they provide it in a way that is either independent or at least non-partisan. Both have the merit that after the event people cannot say, as has been said in this House, that this is being done just in order to favour one party rather than another. I do not want to be part of a democracy, with the tradition we have, where that is what is said about us. What is the process that is reached? I understand entirely that the Bill, so far as the referendum is concerned, is necessary for the coalition agreement. I have no difficulty personally with that part of the Bill going forward within the timeframe I know the Government want. That is understandable. What I do not understand is why there is a rush to change the number of Members of Parliament without even a degree of rational assessment of what the right numbers are and without considering the evidence. I want to refer to one of the issues that has been raised, and unlike the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, I think it is absolutely a part of this debate on this amendment, and not just for subsequent amendments. I speak of the issues that have been raised, for example, of not just knowing what the people want, or not understanding localism because those issues can be looked at properly through some form of independent assessment. I would not object to a Speaker’s Conference, although an independent commission may be better. The key part is the two things which the Government have not done, but which must be done. The first is a rational assessment of the numbers, and the second is at least a degree of non-partisan agreement about that, or better still, independent assessment. I turn to the issue that the Leader of the House said, when my noble friend Lord Soley was moving his amendment, was not really for this amendment: the relationship between the Executive and the number of Members of Parliament. I understand it because I was a member of the payroll vote for quite a long time.