Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

The noble Lord is not comparing like with like. I said it is impossible to work out a mathematical formula relating to what the workload of an individual Member of Parliament is. I think it is ultimately a matter of judgment as to what level MPs can best serve their constituents. The noble Lord, Lord Bach, asked why the Government wish to fix the number; previously, the Boundary Commission has rules but the number is not fixed. The present legislation states: "““The electorate of any constituency shall be as near the electoral quota as is practicable””." It could be argued that is a more stringent target than the range we put forward under the Bill, which is plus or minus 5 per cent. However, this requirement is then balanced against other rules and factors. The result of the overall scheme is that the equality and fairness in the weight of a vote, which is enshrined as a principle in rule 5 as it stands at the moment, ends up as one consideration among many. Then, of course, when Boundary Commission recommendations are debated, political parties, which are usually the principal players in the consultation process, use any factor that they possibly can to advance electoral interests. It is also of interest that the British Academy report on the Bill notes, "““This new set of rules that the Boundary Commissions must apply is clear and consistent””," and, "““a very substantial improvement on those currently implemented by the Boundary Commissions (they have a clear hierarchy and are not contradictory)””." We have discussed on more than one occasion the issue of the present arrangements whereby there has been continual creep—there has been one exception, since 1950, when the reduction of the Scottish Members brought the number down; in every other location it has gone up. I simply say to the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, that my recollection is that Hamilton was split in two long before that reduction happened following devolution, because I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, was Member for Hamilton South, and he stood down and fought a by-election before there was any change in the Westminster boundaries. I also point out that, whereas the reduction proposed in this Bill, from 650 to 600, is a reduction of some 7 per cent, the reduction that occurred in Scotland following devolution, from 72 to 59, was a reduction of some 18 per cent, which is twice as great as is proposed under this Bill. I said earlier that both parties in this Government made commitments in the election to reduce the number. I will not go over in detail again the context in which the Liberal Democrats made theirs because it has been explained. Nevertheless, the background involved seeking to reduce the numbers. We have said that to go too far may lead to even greater upheaval and disruption. On the other hand, as for the figure of 76,000, which I have mentioned before, about a third of existing seats are within 5 per cent of this figure—on either side—and this means it is within the existing range of experience of many Members of Parliament. I cannot accept what the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, said; that, somehow or other, the number of 76,000 weakens the link between Members of Parliament and their constituents. The fact is that a third of existing seats are within 5 per cent of 76,000, on either side, and no one has suggested that that particular figure means that that link does not currently exist. We have proposed a modest cut. As I said, it is a reduction that was proposed in the manifestos of both the coalition parties. I also note—and did not pick up before—that the noble Lord, Lord Baker of Dorking, indicated before that this House has in the past supported a Private Member’s Bill to reduce the number; but of course this particular clause, when it was in the other place, was substantially supported by Members in the other place. That is not an excuse for it not being examined in your Lordships’ House in this Committee. Nevertheless, those who are most directly affected by this actually endorsed the proposal by a substantial majority. For completeness, I would also say to the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, who raised the point about the increase in the size of the Bill, this was done by government amendments adding schedules to the Bill, made in the other place, rather than being included in the Bill at introduction. It was to allow time to discuss the details of them with devolved Administrations, electoral administrators and the Electoral Commission. In any event, I think it is fair to point out—and this may be the reason why the press have not latched onto it—that the vast majority of time taken so far to debate this Bill has been spent on the clauses and not the schedules, and the vast majority of amendments laid and debated have related to the clauses and not the schedules. I think that it is not comparing like with like to suggest that the doubling of the size of the Bill has led to the increased debates in the Committee of your Lordships’ House. I think that the addition of the schedules by government amendment in the other place did not add to the time needed to debate the Bill there in any significant way. If I have repeated myself, it is because many of the arguments have been similar. I have not addressed the points made with regard to the relationship between the number of Members in the other House and the number of Ministers. I have indicated before that the Government do think that it is a matter of proper debate. There are other amendments which we can come to and we can have a fuller debate. Likewise, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Boateng, that the point about using the census he has indicated himself in his amendment, and I am sure that he will understand if I do not detain the House in Committee at this time when there will be an opportunity in a further amendment to debate that. With those words, I rather hope that the noble Lord, Lord Snape, will withdraw his amendment.