UK Parliament / Open data

Higher Education Fees

Debate on Thursday, 9 December 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Vincent Cable. The answering member was John Denham.
Debate on a motion that for the purpose of section 24 of the Higher Education Act 2004, the higher amount should be increased to £9,000, and to £4,500 in the cases described in regulation 5 of the draft regulations in Command Paper Cm 7986, and that the increase should take effect from 1 September 2012. Agreed on division (323 to 302). Discussed with draft Higher Education (Basic Amount) (England) Regulations 2010. Motion to approve agreed to on division (323 votes to 302).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
520 c540-633 
Session
2010-12
Department
Department for Business, Innovation and Skills
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Higher Education (Basic Amount) (England) Regulations 2010
Monday, 29 November 2010
Statutory instruments
House of Lords
House of Commons
Higher Education Act 2004
Thursday, 1 July 2004
Public acts
Draft Higher Education (Higher Amount) (England) Regulations 2010.
Thursday, 2 December 2010
Command papers
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 520 c592 (Link to this contribution) Order. In view of the level of interest, after the next speaker has spoken I am afraid I am imposing...
Speaker | 520 c559 (Link to this contribution) I have imposed a six-minute limit on Back-Bench contributions with immediate effect.

Show all contributions (363)
John Denham | 520 c551 (Link to this contribution) It is hardly for me to try to get inside the heads of Government Members. If we read what they say, ...
Tristram Hunt | 520 c551 (Link to this contribution) Why does my right hon. Friend think that the Government are so intent on destroying the humanities b...
John Denham | 520 c552 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not. If the hon. Lady will forgive me, I will come to that point in a moment. As a result ...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 520 c551 (Link to this contribution) According to the last figures available, when the shadow Minister was in government, of the 80,000 c...
John Denham | 520 c550 (Link to this contribution) I give way to a representative of one of those leading research universities.
John Denham | 520 c550 (Link to this contribution) There is widespread disquiet not only in the academic community. Significantly, the Secretary of Sta...
John Denham | 520 c550-1 (Link to this contribution) The 2001 Labour manifesto—I was a Back Bencher at the time, and my right hon. Friend the Member for ...
Julian Huppert | 520 c550 (Link to this contribution) While the right hon. Gentleman is talking about fundamental changes, will he talk about his party, i...
Andrew Bridgen | 520 c552 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman welcome the fact that the repayments threshold is being increased to £...
John Denham | 520 c552 (Link to this contribution) I will come to that in a moment. It is on the standard handout. Let me say first, however, that the ...
Paul Farrelly | 520 c549 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Speaker. On Monday, I tabled three named day questions relating to the evide...
Speaker | 520 c549 (Link to this contribution) Order. [Interruption.] Order. [Interruption.] Order. I understand the passions, but the more noise, ...
Vincent Cable | 520 c548-9 (Link to this contribution) I have given way to several of the hon. Gentleman's colleagues and several of my own, and I now wish...
Brian H Donohoe | 520 c548 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Speaker | 520 c548 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the hon. Gentleman has said, but that is not a point of order; it is a point of fr...
Brian H Donohoe | 520 c548 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Did not the Secretary of State say that he was going to give way? W...
Jim Cunningham | 520 c550 (Link to this contribution) Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Secretary of State said earlier that 15 vice-chancellors supp...
Speaker | 520 c549 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that I am in favour of timely replies to parliamentary questions. He is an ...
John Denham | 520 c549-50 (Link to this contribution) I note that the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister have already walked out of the debate. ...
Vincent Cable | 520 c547 (Link to this contribution) I am simply saying that there are potentially other mechanisms by which universities that exceed the...
Speaker | 520 c547 (Link to this contribution) Order. I apologise for interrupting the Secretary of State, but I must ask him to address the House....
Brian H Donohoe | 520 c547 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Vincent Cable | 520 c547 (Link to this contribution) Let me proceed. Of course increasing the graduate contribution is bound to have an effect—it is an a...
Vincent Cable | 520 c547 (Link to this contribution) Thirdly, we will introduce a threshold for graduate repayment of a £21,000 salary—a significantly hi...
Vincent Cable | 520 c548 (Link to this contribution) Furthermore, we are introducing variable interest rates so that those on high incomes pay relatively...
Speaker | 520 c548 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is not giving way at the moment and must be allowed to continue—[Interruption...
Vincent Cable | 520 c548 (Link to this contribution) As well as the measures we have taken to improve access for low-income families, as opposed to the s...
Speaker | 520 c545 (Link to this contribution) Order. Just before the Secretary of State replies, let me say that an enormous number of Members wis...
Peter Bone | 520 c546 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way before moving on?
Vincent Cable | 520 c545 (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course I hear what the hon. Lady says about the education maintenance allowance. What I woul...
Vincent Cable | 520 c546 (Link to this contribution) I hope that not too many Opposition Members would regard additional funding from employers as someho...
Simon Hughes | 520 c546 (Link to this contribution) Under the fees scheme introduced by the Labour party, all universities ended up charging at the high...
Vincent Cable | 520 c546 (Link to this contribution) Opposition Members who follow these arguments closely have often made the following argument. ““We a...
Speaker | 520 c546 (Link to this contribution) Order. First, there is still far too much noise in the Chamber. Secondly, when the Secretary of Stat...
Vincent Cable | 520 c547 (Link to this contribution) That is a highly pertinent question in the light of the experience of the last Government, who had a...
Rushanara Ali | 520 c545 (Link to this contribution) Despite this talk of supporting people on low incomes, I find it quite hard to stomach what I am hea...
Vincent Cable | 520 c545 (Link to this contribution) I will take one more intervention.
Vincent Cable | 520 c545 (Link to this contribution) I believe, as the Government as a whole believe, in devolution. We believe that the devolved Adminis...
Andrew Selous | 520 c545 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. I wonder whether he could say someth...
Vincent Cable | 520 c544-5 (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. Of course the policy will be monitored, and...
Vincent Cable | 520 c544 (Link to this contribution) I most emphatically will not be following the advice of the Scottish nationalists in government, who...
John Baron | 520 c544 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that we can all agree that all students who would benefit from a university education shou...
Pete Wishart | 520 c544 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Secretary of State. Does he even begin to understand or appreciate the pot...
Albert Owen | 520 c543 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Vincent Cable | 520 c544 (Link to this contribution) I will finish this section and then take an intervention. There were various options for cutting th...
Vincent Cable | 520 c543 (Link to this contribution) I will finish my point. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the Government, like the previous Govern...
Vincent Cable | 520 c543 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. I will give way later, when I have finished my point. The right hon. Member for Sou...
Vincent Cable | 520 c543 (Link to this contribution) The 80% fact—and it is a fact—derives from the following: most major Departments have had to take sp...
John Denham | 520 c543 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has been good enough to refer to my letter. He knows full well that the IFS...
Vincent Cable | 520 c542 (Link to this contribution) For the funding of universities, Lord Browne recommended—in a report that the then Labour Government...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 520 c543 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Brian H Donohoe | 520 c543 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Jack Straw | 520 c542 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Secretary of State, but he knows that the central issue is the fact that the te...
Vincent Cable | 520 c542 (Link to this contribution) I will take the former Home Secretary's intervention.
Vincent Cable | 520 c541-2 (Link to this contribution) The consultation on the national scholarship scheme is still open to representations from the hon. G...
Speaker | 520 c542 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Secretary of State is not giving way for the moment.
Vincent Cable | 520 c542 (Link to this contribution) I will take other interventions later. The Browne report—
Vincent Cable | 520 c542 (Link to this contribution) I am glad of that intervention from the right hon. Gentleman, who, given his history in the previous...
Vincent Cable | 520 c541 (Link to this contribution) I will take the hon. Gentleman's intervention after reading to him a comment from someone whom I wou...
Gareth Thomas | 520 c541 (Link to this contribution) On sloppy thinking, crucial to the Government's case has been their advocacy of the national scholar...
Kevin Brennan | 520 c540 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Vincent Cable | 520 c540 (Link to this contribution) The terms of the statutory instrument are narrow, but I think you ruled yesterday evening, Mr Speake...
Speaker | 520 c540 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Secretary of State should resume his seat for a moment, and I apologise for having to int...
Vincent Cable | 520 c540 (Link to this contribution) I will take interventions later. You have asked, Mr Speaker, that both Front Benchers should keep th...
Vincent Cable | 520 c540-1 (Link to this contribution) When I became Secretary of State, I invited Lord Browne to make two adaptations to the terms of refe...
Vincent Cable | 520 c541 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment. The second request that I made of Lord Browne was to ask him to look t...
Speaker | 520 c540 (Link to this contribution) With this we shall discuss the following motion on education:"That the draft Higher Education (Basic...
Speaker | 520 c540 (Link to this contribution) With Mr Speaker standing next to me, I have to inform the House that he has not selected any of the ...
Vincent Cable | 520 c540 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That, for the purpose of section 24 of the Higher Education Act 2004, the higher amou...
Pat Glass | 520 c609 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I agree. It goes further than that, however. Professions such as medicine, dentistry, law and a...
Ian Mearns | 520 c609 (Link to this contribution) I thank my very good hon. Friend for giving way. Social mobility is an important issue, because it i...
Pat Glass | 520 c610 (Link to this contribution) Several Government Members have asked why non-graduates should pay for graduates. If we take that to...
Claire O'Neill | 520 c610 (Link to this contribution) May I point out that with a graduate tax, the money would flow directly to the Treasury? We know tha...
Guto Bebb | 520 c610 (Link to this contribution) I accept my hon. Friend's point. What we are considering is not an issue of principle, as the Oppos...
Owen Smith | 520 c611 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Guto Bebb | 520 c611 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I cannot take any more interventions because of the time. We are talking about cre...
Chris Bryant | 520 c611 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Guto Bebb | 520 c611 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. It is important to point out that access comes with a cost. The coalition Governmen...
Claire O'Neill | 520 c607 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Duncan Hames | 520 c607 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to my constituency neighbour.
Pete Wishart | 520 c608 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Duncan Hames | 520 c608 (Link to this contribution) I will not take any more interventions. Back in 1997, the Dearing report concluded that the cost of...
Claire O'Neill | 520 c608 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's reference to the progressive nature of the measures. Is it credibl...
Duncan Hames | 520 c608 (Link to this contribution) What amazes me is that Labour Members were not prepared to raise the £15,000 threshold in any of the...
Pat Glass | 520 c609 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that in an ideal world that would be fabulous, but we do not live in an ideal world. An ar...
Bill Esterson | 520 c609 (Link to this contribution) Yesterday I met Liam Cunningham and Joe Short at an event in Maghull in my constituency, and they ma...
Pat Glass | 520 c608 (Link to this contribution) I know that many hon. Members wish to speak, so I shall be brief and focus on what is, in a sense, a...
Jake Berry | 520 c608-9 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the hon. Lady would agree with my constituent Anna, who is protesting here today. S...
Pat McFadden | 520 c605 (Link to this contribution) The Browne review takes as its starting-point the changes that the Labour Government introduced in 2...
Julian Huppert | 520 c605 (Link to this contribution) I tried to intervene on the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) as I wanted to correct some o...
Speaker | 520 c605 (Link to this contribution) Order. Interventions must be a lot briefer from now onwards. That is very unfair to other Members.
Pat McFadden | 520 c605-6 (Link to this contribution) We are probably all agreed that the top universities can and should do more to attract ethnic minori...
Julian Lewis | 520 c604-5 (Link to this contribution) I am certainly not going down the road of turning this into a debate about the affairs of my birthpl...
Duncan Hames | 520 c607 (Link to this contribution) In the debate since the Browne proposals were published, and so far today, many have found it easy t...
Gareth Thomas | 520 c606 (Link to this contribution) Has my right hon. Friend seen the Government's impact assessment, which suggests that even they reco...
Pat McFadden | 520 c606 (Link to this contribution) I was coming to that, because Browne also called for an increase in participation of 10%, yet one of...
Chris Ruane | 520 c606 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Pat McFadden | 520 c606-7 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way again, as there is not much time remaining. There is one big problem with the G...
Jake Berry | 520 c602 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Jeremy Corbyn | 520 c602-3 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way, because I only have four minutes. I believe that many of the students are prot...
Anna Soubry | 520 c602 (Link to this contribution) No, sir. Another day. What I would say to the Secretary of State, apart from the fact that I admire...
Jeremy Corbyn | 520 c602 (Link to this contribution) This debate takes place with an unprecedented number of young people all over the country following ...
Guto Bebb | 520 c604 (Link to this contribution) As a Welsh Member, I think that it is worth pointing out that the university system in Wales is alre...
Guto Bebb | 520 c604 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?
Julian Lewis | 520 c603 (Link to this contribution) Normally when I am called immediately following the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn),...
Geraint Davies | 520 c604 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Swansea-born Member for giving way. Taking that further, is he sympathetic to t...
Robert Flello | 520 c588-9 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way to any Government Member because they shamefully voted for the programme mot...
Speaker | 520 c590 (Link to this contribution) Order. It is not necessary for Members of this House to count down. The clock is perfectly accurate....
Robert Flello | 520 c589 (Link to this contribution) The same goes for the hon. Member for East Surrey. Jasmine's letter continues:"““This generation an...
Robert Flello | 520 c589 (Link to this contribution) No; I will not take the hon. Gentleman's help. He can resume his seat. A ComRes poll for ITV News f...
Robert Flello | 520 c589 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend puts the point extremely well. I do not think the Government are anti-university per ...
Tristram Hunt | 520 c589 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend's constituency and mine share Staffordshire university, which is also dealing with th...
Robert Flello | 520 c589 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not, for reasons that I have stated. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman should have voted against...
Matthew Offord | 520 c589 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Sharma | 520 c590 (Link to this contribution) We have heard much self-righteous indignation from the Opposition about the proposed rise in tuition...
Anas Sarwar | 520 c590 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case that the UK spends only 0.7% of its gross domestic product on higher education, c...
Lord Sharma | 520 c591 (Link to this contribution) Another tax rise. That is what we get from the Opposition. Another tax rise. They left us with the b...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 520 c591 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is such a supporter of tuition fees, will he pay £9,000 for every year that he...
Lord Sharma | 520 c590-1 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way now. That approach comes from a party that appears to have no consistent or ...
Lord Sharma | 520 c590 (Link to this contribution) I could not agree more with my hon. Friend, who makes a very good point. It is clear that Labour's o...
Gordon Birtwistle | 520 c590 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is a total disgrace that the previous Prime Minister has not b...
Lord Sharma | 520 c590 (Link to this contribution) This is an economic decision. The Labour party left us with a mess, they have absolutely no plan and...
Paul Farrelly | 520 c586 (Link to this contribution) I, too, signed the cross-party amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulhol...
John Leech | 520 c585-6 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate, although, like my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds...
Lord Willetts | 520 c583 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way—unlike the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy)...
Sharon Hodgson | 520 c583-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to speak against the motion on behalf of all my constituents, espe...
Steve Brine | 520 c583 (Link to this contribution) I am glad to hear that. The Minister knows that I will be back and will hold him to that assurance. ...
Sharon Hodgson | 520 c584-5 (Link to this contribution) Not at all. That is rubbish, and I totally disagree with it. As hon. Members have said, the proposal...
Gavin Williamson | 520 c584 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady talks about top universities, but the Russell group of universities says:"““There has ...
Sharon Hodgson | 520 c585 (Link to this contribution) I inform the hon. Gentleman that I did my sums myself. I have them here, and I will forward them to ...
Christopher Pincher | 520 c585 (Link to this contribution) I do not know who has done the hon. Lady's sums for her—possibly the shadow Chancellor—but they do n...
Robert Flello | 520 c588 (Link to this contribution) I knew that it would be a great gift to give way to the hon. Gentleman, but I think he knows the sit...
Chris Bryant | 520 c586 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
John Leech | 520 c586 (Link to this contribution) That is not relevant to the debate, or to the point that I am trying to make. The proposals mean tha...
Graham Stringer | 520 c586 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to learn that the hon. Gentleman will be going into the correct Lobby this evening. How...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 520 c588 (Link to this contribution) In Scotland, Labour's tuition fees were abolished by the Scottish National party. Does the hon. Gent...
Robert Flello | 520 c588 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question, because the course my daughter chose is of great ...
Lord Beamish | 520 c587 (Link to this contribution) When my hon. Friend's daughter made the decision to enrol on that course, did she follow the advice ...
Robert Flello | 520 c587 (Link to this contribution) I listened with great interest to the contribution of the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington (Mr...
Paul Uppal | 520 c598 (Link to this contribution) I come from a working class background—seven children in a two-up, two-down. My parents took two job...
Rehman Chishti | 520 c598 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support the Government's proposals on the basis that they are fair, just and progressive. ...
Chris Bryant | 520 c598 (Link to this contribution) May I put a slightly different version of the facts to the hon. Gentleman? By the end of a three-yea...
Yvonne Fovargue | 520 c597-8 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give away again. Those shifts in funding cannot be fair or right. Is this the societ...
Rehman Chishti | 520 c598 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a pertinent point. I was at university in Wales and I know the community th...
Richard Graham | 520 c599 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that, a student who goes on to earn £25,000 a year—the average salary—will...
Rehman Chishti | 520 c599 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point. To ensure that students from different backgrounds can go to...
Sammy Wilson | 520 c599 (Link to this contribution) I feel some sympathy for the Liberal Democrats, having served in a coalition in Northern Ireland and...
Anna Soubry | 520 c601 (Link to this contribution) May I first declare the following interests? I have a daughter who is currently a student in her sec...
Sammy Wilson | 520 c600-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a very good point. We hear a lot about the respect agenda for the devolved Admin...
Lady Hermon | 520 c600 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is the Finance and Personnel Minister in the Executive, and I am curious, as I am...
Sammy Wilson | 520 c600 (Link to this contribution) I have indicated the impact of the policy on the budget, but the policy also impacts on the ability ...
Jim Shannon | 520 c600 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is in a unique position, because he is the Finance and Personnel Minister in the Nort...
Sammy Wilson | 520 c599-600 (Link to this contribution) Quite right. Of course, there are other things that the Liberal Democrats could have compromised on...
Anna Soubry | 520 c601-2 (Link to this contribution) Forgive me, no. Time is so short that Opposition Members may well say that they want to hear less of...
Lord Sharma | 520 c591-2 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way, because I do not have much time left. Social mobility starts at school, an...
Lord Sharma | 520 c592 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. A graduate tax would mean that poorer graduates paid more and ri...
Nadhim Zahawi | 520 c592 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend not agree that that flirtation with a graduate tax is short-term opportunism for...
Naomi Long | 520 c592-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to participate in the debate, which will have profound implication...
Naomi Long | 520 c594 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not regret receiving the right hon. Gentleman's support during the election campaign. I am ...
Nick Boles | 520 c595 (Link to this contribution) In the short time available to me, I want to focus on the question that really vexes most people in ...
Sam Gyimah | 520 c595 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case that in countries such as France, Italy and Holland where there are no fees for u...
Nick Boles | 520 c595 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is, as ever, way ahead of me and exactly right. The reverse of what one might have ex...
Nick Boles | 520 c596 (Link to this contribution) The Institute for Fiscal Studies, like everyone else in this debate, talks about what it thinks will...
Susan Elan Jones | 520 c596 (Link to this contribution) I am reluctant to disturb the hon. Gentleman, but I wonder whether he has read the Institute for Fis...
Nick Boles | 520 c596 (Link to this contribution) I will give way one last time.
Yvonne Fovargue | 520 c597 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Encouraging young people in Makerfield to consider un...
Mark Hendrick | 520 c597 (Link to this contribution) Many of my hon. Friend's constituents live fairly close to my constituency, which houses the univers...
Yvonne Fovargue | 520 c596 (Link to this contribution) I place on record my opposition to the huge rise in tuition fees and the disproportionate effect tha...
Yvonne Fovargue | 520 c597 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. In my constituency, a traditional working-class community, ...
Paul Farrelly | 520 c582 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 520 c582 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is such a fan of tuition fees of £9,000 per annum, will he pay £9,000 in retro...
Steve Brine | 520 c582-3 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman has access to my bank accounts, but if he did, he might not...
David Lammy | 520 c580 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We should reflect that fees of £9,000 a year could total up to d...
David Lammy | 520 c580-1 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way because I want to make some progress. That is substantially more than the £3,00...
David Lammy | 520 c581 (Link to this contribution) I have one minute left, so I will not give way. We will hear from the right hon. Gentleman later—[In...
Speaker | 520 c581 (Link to this contribution) Order. I call Mr Steve Brine, but I should say that he cannot just sit and smile; he has to stand up...
Steve Brine | 520 c581-2 (Link to this contribution) Indeed I do. I apologise for that, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank you for calling me. I am a new...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 520 c579 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
David Lammy | 520 c580 (Link to this contribution) Not at this point. The decision that we made in 2004 was not that we should move away from free edu...
David Lammy | 520 c579 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate, particularly as a former Higher...
Diane Abbott | 520 c580 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that those who argue that students need not be frightened of £9,000 ...
Sam Gyimah | 520 c578 (Link to this contribution) No, thanks. If we are to be responsible in this debate, we must explain the policy rather than trad...
Heidi Alexander | 520 c579 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for finally giving way. Does he not accept that for students from poorer ...
Sam Gyimah | 520 c579 (Link to this contribution) The truth is that under our current system, it is the middle classes who benefit the most. The peopl...
Sam Gyimah | 520 c578-9 (Link to this contribution) No, thanks. We have also seen the old notion of class warfare revamped this week. I saw it mentione...
John Denham | 520 c552 (Link to this contribution) I must make some progress. Most graduates will be paying off their debts for 30 years. Under the cu...
John Baron | 520 c553 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman cannot get away from the fact that most independent experts agree that the ...
John Denham | 520 c552-3 (Link to this contribution) We certainly need to sustain investment in higher education, but as—again—I will show in a moment, i...
John Denham | 520 c553 (Link to this contribution) I need to make some progress, because I am coming to an issue that concerns many Members. The Busin...
John Denham | 520 c553 (Link to this contribution) Let me explain in a straightforward way to the hon. Gentleman and others who may be confused. There ...
John Denham | 520 c554 (Link to this contribution) Being at the Dispatch Box is an interesting experience. [Hon. Members: ““Answer the question.””] I a...
Stephen Williams | 520 c554 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the shadow Secretary of State will enlighten us. When he was in the Cabinet—until May last y...
John Denham | 520 c555 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has clearly not been listening. I have been talking about the changes that were o...
Charlie Elphicke | 520 c555 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to the right hon. Gentleman for his honesty and candour in making a substantial spendi...
John Denham | 520 c554-5 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some progress on the issue of fairness, because I believe that it lies at the heart o...
Andrew Percy | 520 c556 (Link to this contribution) I wanted to make the point the shadow Secretary of State he has just made when I tried to intervene ...
John Denham | 520 c556 (Link to this contribution) I must make some progress. The ““fairest”” can be judged only by how much graduates pay. It must al...
John Denham | 520 c556 (Link to this contribution) No, the IFS said graduates from the poorest 30% of households will pay more, and clearly at all othe...
Matt Hancock | 520 c555-6 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman will not accept comparisons between the existing scheme and the Government'...
John Denham | 520 c557 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The scheme that was trumpeted at the weekend—and which I will ta...
John Denham | 520 c556 (Link to this contribution) I am very sorry that the Secretary of State did not give way to the hon. Gentleman, because I think ...
John Denham | 520 c558-9 (Link to this contribution) Millions of parents, students and future students will be watching the debate and they will wonder w...
Speaker | 520 c559 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have listened to the first two or three sentences of the hon. Gentleman's attempted point o...
Ian Murray | 520 c559 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you give the House some guidance? The Business Secretary has c...
John Denham | 520 c557 (Link to this contribution) Well, it is the view of an organisation that has done more work on this issue than any other, and I ...
Chuka Umunna | 520 c557 (Link to this contribution) My constituency is in the fifth most deprived local authority area in London and the 19th most depri...
Chris Ruane | 520 c558 (Link to this contribution) They are not laughing in the Public Gallery.
John Denham | 520 c557-8 (Link to this contribution) I will not take any further interventions. I have been speaking longer than I had intended, and I st...
Edward Leigh | 520 c560 (Link to this contribution) It is quite right that we should help people on low incomes, but will my hon. Friend say a word abou...
David Evennett | 520 c559 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for the opportunity to participate in this important debate. As the shadow Minist...
David Evennett | 520 c560 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Middle England will be looked on favourably because we want ...
Lord Blunkett | 520 c563 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. I pray in aid the Institute for Fiscal Studies, because when it discussed this schem...
Lord Blunkett | 520 c563 (Link to this contribution) I recall arguing in 1997 that we should ensure that there is a fair balance; I used to use the analo...
Daniel Byles | 520 c563 (Link to this contribution) First, I wish to point out that many Government Members understand social mobility. I am the first m...
Lord Blunkett | 520 c561-3 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr Denham) on an excellent s...
David Evennett | 520 c561 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes the absolute point, outlining one of the many reasons why it would be a terribl...
Andrew Bridgen | 520 c561 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that a graduate tax would act as a massive incentive for our brightest and...
David Evennett | 520 c560 (Link to this contribution) I shall not give way for the moment as I should like to make some progress. Assistance must be give...
Speaker | 520 c563 (Link to this contribution) Order. I apologise for interrupting the right hon. Gentleman. Stop the clock. Point of order, Mr Dan...
Speaker | 520 c563 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must resume his seat. The short answer to his question is, yes, it is a matter of...
Daniel Byles | 520 c563 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for the right hon. Gentleman to make such a personal...
Lord Blunkett | 520 c563 (Link to this contribution) The answer is very simple. More of my constituents and those who visit my advice surgery understand ...
Speaker | 520 c564 (Link to this contribution) Order. We must now move on to the next speech.
Greg Mulholland | 520 c564 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak in a debate in which I do not want to speak. I do not believe that this debate shoul...
Richard Graham | 520 c564 (Link to this contribution) What does my hon. Friend consider to be a reasonable percentage of time to spend on this debate rela...
Greg Mulholland | 520 c564 (Link to this contribution) All I say to the hon. Gentleman is that sometimes Governments are wrong, and sometimes one needs to ...
John Pugh | 520 c564 (Link to this contribution) Summarising this debate so far, one has to accept that the Secretary of State for Business, Innovati...
Greg Mulholland | 520 c564-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is entirely right. There simply has not been an adequate evaluation to allay the very...
Anne Main | 520 c565 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Caroline Lucas | 520 c567 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman rightly spoke about the importance of employers paying their contribution towards...
Barry Sheerman | 520 c566-7 (Link to this contribution) I stand here with some trepidation in the sense that, in 2004, I made a speech in a similar debate a...
Greg Mulholland | 520 c565-6 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way, I am afraid, because I have taken my two interventions and the hon. Lady will h...
Barry Sheerman | 520 c567-8 (Link to this contribution) We tend to get passionate in debates on such things. In fact nobody won the election. The Conservati...
Charlie Elphicke | 520 c568 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a very principled speech. Does he agree that if the election had been w...
Barry Sheerman | 520 c567 (Link to this contribution) I listened very carefully to that. It is an interesting idea. The timetable that the Government have...
Andrew Bridgen | 520 c567 (Link to this contribution) I thought we just did talk to the electorate. We had a general election and the hon. Gentleman's par...
Liz Kendall | 520 c569 (Link to this contribution) The latest evidence on social mobility is based on a comparison between those born in 1958 and those...
Barry Sheerman | 520 c568 (Link to this contribution) I do not believe that at all. Let me be straight with the hon. Gentleman. I believe that there is a ...
Ben Gummer | 520 c568-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the contribution of the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) because he gave...
Ben Gummer | 520 c569 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I do not get the full gist of the hon. Lady's intervention. All I know is that ever...
Andrew Bridgen | 520 c569 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett) made an impassioned s...
Ben Gummer | 520 c569 (Link to this contribution) I will take one more intervention.
Jim Shannon | 520 c572 (Link to this contribution) I understand that the proportion of students from Northern Ireland who go across the water is up to ...
Ben Gummer | 520 c569-70 (Link to this contribution) I happen to be one of the Government Members who admires the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Bright...
Alasdair McDonnell | 520 c571 (Link to this contribution) Because time is worryingly short, given the importance of what is being discussed and the fact that ...
Pete Wishart | 520 c571 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman share my disappointment that this Government have given absolutely no consid...
Alasdair McDonnell | 520 c571-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman. It is difficult for those of us who come here attempting to encoura...
Andrew Percy | 520 c574 (Link to this contribution) A number of hon. Members have made that very point today, and I accept that the principle of triplin...
Margot James | 520 c574 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making some good points, but does he accept that one third of students will be bet...
Andrew Percy | 520 c574 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. There is, of course, a choice to be made, and Governme...
Andrew Percy | 520 c573 (Link to this contribution) This has not been the easiest of weeks, as I have wrestled with what is, to me, an incredibly import...
Emily Thornberry | 520 c575 (Link to this contribution) I want to start by dealing with the main issue, before moving on to give the Liberal Democrats some ...
Andrew Percy | 520 c575 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to give way, because a lot of Members want to contribute to the debate. I have strug...
Andrew Percy | 520 c574-5 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to give way again, as I have only three minutes left and other Members wish to speak ...
Sam Gyimah | 520 c577 (Link to this contribution) The real test of policies is the outcome. What is coming out of the system that Labour left us? Lots...
Tristram Hunt | 520 c577 (Link to this contribution) We are having the astronomical rise in fees because of the 80% cut in the teaching grant. We are dea...
Sam Gyimah | 520 c577 (Link to this contribution) May I develop my argument, please? I listened to the Secretary of State's argument. I like the fact...
Gordon Birtwistle | 520 c576 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that if the previous Government had not left us in a desperate financial pl...
Emily Thornberry | 520 c576 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that point because it is central and needs to be tac...
Sam Gyimah | 520 c577 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) decided to give us a short history lesson. He reminde...
Emily Thornberry | 520 c576-7 (Link to this contribution) If hon. Members will forgive me, I will not give way again—I want to get through my speech quickly s...
Sam Gyimah | 520 c578 (Link to this contribution) I want to develop my argument. Let us look at the proposal in simple terms. Before I went to univer...
Heidi Alexander | 520 c578 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Sam Gyimah | 520 c577-8 (Link to this contribution) May I develop my argument? Why is that outcome important? Unless we understand the outcomes we want...
Sam Gyimah | 520 c578 (Link to this contribution) No, thanks. Everyone has omitted to say that when people graduate, they earn about £100,000 more th...
Andrew Percy | 520 c578 (Link to this contribution) The situation is that working class families, who are least able to support their children at univer...
Sam Gyimah | 520 c578 (Link to this contribution) If any lie has been perpetrated in this debate, it is that working class children who want to univer...
Lord Willetts | 520 c623-4 (Link to this contribution) Because our proposals—[Hon. Members: ““Give way!””] I am not going to give way because I have three ...
Peter Bone | 520 c621 (Link to this contribution) My problem in deciding how to vote tonight is related to my constituents, and to whether this measur...
Ben Gummer | 520 c621 (Link to this contribution) Back in June, when the Leader of the Opposition was offering solutions, he said that instead of up-f...
Lord Willetts | 520 c622 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. We have improved on the policies that we inherited from the previous Govern...
Daniel Byles | 520 c622 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree with the former Labour Education Minister, Lord Adonis, who said tha...
Lord Willetts | 520 c622 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely right. Lord Browne produced an excellent report. There is a group, ““Blairites for Browne...
Elizabeth Truss | 520 c619 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case that under the previous Government, only 19% of the lowest-income households cont...
Gareth Thomas | 520 c619 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point about the stark contrast between what the Government said the...
Lord Willetts | 520 c620-1 (Link to this contribution) We have indeed had a passionate and robust debate, and I am sorry that there will not be time for me...
Gareth Thomas | 520 c619-20 (Link to this contribution) With all due respect to the hon. Lady, she should look at the figures. There was a 30% increase in p...
Speaker | 520 c623 (Link to this contribution) Order. Whatever people's feelings, the Minister must be heard.
Lord Willetts | 520 c623 (Link to this contribution) I was explaining how we have not rushed our proposals. They were based on a report that was introduc...
Speaker | 520 c622 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman will resume his seat. I call the Minister.
Lord Willetts | 520 c622-3 (Link to this contribution) If I may say so, that was a disgraceful intervention. The Government are committed to explaining ho...
Pete Wishart | 520 c622 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way, but there are more than three parties in the Hous...
Geraint Davies | 520 c622 (Link to this contribution) I think that Members of all parties are worried that there may be civil unrest as a result of the wa...
Speaker | 520 c622 (Link to this contribution) I hope that it is genuine point of order.
Lord Willetts | 520 c622 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will explain how, under the English system, more Scottish students study ...
Guto Bebb | 520 c611 (Link to this contribution) I will respond to the heckling in a minute, but I am quite confident that better access will be deli...
Guto Bebb | 520 c611-2 (Link to this contribution) I will come back to that point about Wales. The average salary in a constituency such as mine is £2...
Gavin Shuker | 520 c612 (Link to this contribution) I am one of only a few Members of this House who went to university under a loans and fees system, s...
Jonathan Edwards | 520 c612 (Link to this contribution) As we debate tuition fees, it is worth reminding ourselves that 90% of us in this House have benefit...
Pete Wishart | 520 c612 (Link to this contribution) We all know the record of the Labour party, which includes having introduced tuition fees, but does ...
Michael Connarty | 520 c613 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting concept. If the Welsh Government are allowing the fees to be paid to the univ...
Jonathan Edwards | 520 c612-3 (Link to this contribution) As always, my hon. Friend makes an excellent point. Education is a right, not a privilege. The benef...
Jonathan Edwards | 520 c614 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman, as usual, is grandstanding. I totally disagree, and the Welsh Government's propo...
Alun Cairns | 520 c614 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not recognise the funding gap between Welsh and English universities, and th...
Jonathan Edwards | 520 c613-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, and of course I fully agree. I made that p...
Chris Bryant | 520 c613 (Link to this contribution) But is it not also important that one of the measures introduced in Wales ensures that individual yo...
Damian Hinds | 520 c614-5 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but because of the time I cannot. It is sometimes difficult when people of our age have...
Bill Esterson | 520 c614 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Damian Hinds | 520 c615 (Link to this contribution) I cannot, because of the time. Top universities have long complained that, even with the Government...
Jonathan Edwards | 520 c613 (Link to this contribution) My Scottish friends have an even better and honourable position of having no tuition fees, and I wis...
Gareth Thomas | 520 c617-8 (Link to this contribution) This has been a genuinely passionate and robust debate. We have heard interesting contributions from...
Adrian Bailey | 520 c617 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give way any more—I apologise. Unfortunately, the rungs that were going to sustain that im...
Gareth Thomas | 520 c618 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a crucial point. We tried to get the Government to take the time out to publish...
Bill Esterson | 520 c616 (Link to this contribution) The University and College Union estimates that students currently graduate with around £23,500 of d...
Adrian Bailey | 520 c616 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to be diverted by the grief and contortions of the Lib Dem party because there are som...
Adrian Bailey | 520 c616 (Link to this contribution) I will come to that issue in a moment. Let me just finish what I was saying. I have questioned Mini...
Adrian Bailey | 520 c615-6 (Link to this contribution) As the Chair of the Select Committee on Business, Innovation and Skills, which is charged with monit...
Steve Rotheram | 520 c616 (Link to this contribution) On 10 November in Prime Minister's questions, the Deputy Prime Minister admitted to breaking the ple...
Stella Creasy | 520 c619 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that it is impossible to explain to students in Walthamstow, where there h...
Gareth Thomas | 520 c619 (Link to this contribution) Let me just make this point. Even Ireland—which we are all watching closely, because the Chancellor ...
Gareth Thomas | 520 c619 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that question, because I was about to say that the first myt...
George Freeman | 520 c618 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the points about debt that he and his hon. Friends have made woul...
Gareth Thomas | 520 c618 (Link to this contribution) I cannot criticise the Secretary of State for not giving way to those on the Front Bench. However, i...
Gareth Thomas | 520 c618 (Link to this contribution) I thought that the hon. Gentleman could do better than that. This has been a particularly interesti...
Jim Cunningham | 520 c618 (Link to this contribution) Did my hon. Friend note that the Secretary of State refused repeatedly to give way to Labour Members...
Stephen Williams | 520 c618 (Link to this contribution) Has the hon. Gentleman gone on such an enormous geographical tour and then spent time talking about ...
Vincent Cable | 520 c546 (Link to this contribution) I will take an intervention later, if my hon. Friend does not mind. We have eliminated, I think, mo...
Vincent Cable | 520 c544 (Link to this contribution) I will take a Scottish intervention.
Vincent Cable | 520 c542 (Link to this contribution) I will move on to the question of financing.
Guto Bebb | 520 c610 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to this debate with great attention, and I was struck by the comments of the hon. Me...
Lord Sharma | 520 c591 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not just now because I want to make some progress. The proposed changes will be an import...
John Leech | 520 c586 (Link to this contribution) I rather suspect that most universities will want to reach that £9,000 limit even if they choose not...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 520 c594 (Link to this contribution) I agree almost entirely with the hon. Lady's comments. Does she now regret that during the election ...
Daniel Byles | 520 c563 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Anne Main | 520 c574 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is giving a very sensitive speech and I sympathise hugely. Indeed, I marched against ...
Lord Willetts | 520 c621 (Link to this contribution) I can assure my hon. Friend, as I chair the group planning the use of that extremely valuable £150 m...
Vincent Cable | 520 c543-4 (Link to this contribution) I shall develop this point and then take an intervention. What were the options for a Department fa...
Julian Lewis | 520 c604 (Link to this contribution) I do not know what the Welsh Assembly plans to do to balance the books, so it would depend on the co...
Matthew Offord | 520 c588 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
John Leech | 520 c586-7 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way a third time. As I said earlier, I signed the amendment tabled by my hon. Frien...
Rehman Chishti | 520 c598 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for making that pertinent point. It is not simply about money, but about aspi...
Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 520 c597 (Link to this contribution) I have given the progressive nature, or otherwise, of the proposals a great deal of thought througho...
Steve Brine | 520 c582 (Link to this contribution) No thank you. I strongly supported setting up the Browne review. I did not sign any pledges about w...
Geraint Davies | 520 c552 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend accept that reducing access and increasing relative price to our competito...
John Denham | 520 c554 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman because he was a higher education spokesman for his party.
Angela C Smith | 520 c556 (Link to this contribution) Figures from the Library show that the Labour Government put £230 million into widening participatio...
Alasdair McDonnell | 520 c572-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman endorses exactly the point that I was making—we will be hit both ways. My party h...
Jonathan Edwards | 520 c612 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point that comes from his personal experience, and I am sure...
Damian Hinds | 520 c614 (Link to this contribution) There are some very real and big choices in this debate. The three biggest are, first, how many youn...
Clive Efford | 520 c618 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has read out an extensive list, but has he noted how many Members were rising to spea...
Subjects
Access
Devolved matters
Admissions
Disadvantaged
Applications
Fees and charges
Grants
Education maintenance allowance
Higher education
Humanities
Earned income
Northern Ireland
Loans
Low pay
Part-time education
Scotland
Universities
Wales
Repayments
Taxation
Students
Student numbers
Legislation
Higher Education Act 2004
Higher Education (Basic Amount) (England) Regulations 2010
Link
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