UK Parliament / Open data

Welfare Reform Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 26 October 2011, in the House of Lords.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
731 c285-344GC 
Session
2010-12
Department
Department for Work and Pensions
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Welfare Reform Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 75-EN also published.
Thursday, 16 June 2011
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c296-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I could say a word. I am sorry to intervene. However, having been to the briefing ...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c298GC (Link to this contribution) I do apologise, as I know the Minister has taken care to answer my noble friend. Does that mean that...

Show all contributions (138)
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c298GC (Link to this contribution) How then do you avoid the question posed by my noble friend of latch-key children if you cannot ensu...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c310-1GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask one question. The noble Lord will be aware of this issue. We have heard about it f...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c307-8GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply and will certainly withdraw the amendment. One point pressed on u...
Lord Freud | 731 c306GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, soothe fears but also put this matter into context. We are essentially importing the existing a...
Lord Freud | 731 c304GC (Link to this contribution) At the risk of the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, saying that we have not developed the whole system, I ...
Lord Freud | 731 c304GC (Link to this contribution) Aphrodite was in the seashell. I think Athena was the daughter of Metis, who was swallowed by Zeus, ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c299GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was responding to the Minister’s reply and saying that I am sure we are all glad to hear...
Lord McAvoy | 731 c326GC (Link to this contribution) How will those applications be checked? Will there be a system to verify that what the claimant says...
Lord Freud | 731 c326GC (Link to this contribution) I take it that the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, means checking that the claimant is working and using ch...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c333-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply. As we discussed earlier, we understand the need for the sort of...
Lord Freud | 731 c333GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for that, although I think in practice paragraph (d) allows a Government not...
Baroness Drake | 731 c334-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the purpose of this amendment is to exempt family-and-friend carers, who are raising a chi...
Baroness Drake | 731 c334GC (Link to this contribution) 51D: Clause 19, page 9, line 16, at end insert— ““(e) the claimant is a family and friends carer who...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c332GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having been wonderfully rude about the first probing amendment of the noble Lord, Lord McK...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c331-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to the other two amendments in this group. They are straightforward pro...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 731 c332GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, just to correct my noble friend Lord Skelmersdale, it was the Delegated Powers and Regulat...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c333GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, may I come back to my noble friend the Minister? I totally—surprise, surprise—trust this G...
Lord Freud | 731 c332-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, noble Lords will be aware that we intend to use the power in subsection (2)(d) to establis...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) I should have known that, but I did not, so I thank the noble Earl. Nevertheless, we have had some h...
Earl of Listowel | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness withdraws the amendment, I should have reminded your Lordships that the Ch...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) I am twitchy about one more thing, because I know that the Minister will say no. Although we are hap...
Lord Freud | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) It is my delight to be able to reassure the noble Baroness that those protections will remain.
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) 51CEF: Clause 19, page 9, line 16, leave out paragraph (d)
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c330GC (Link to this contribution) It is already the case that grandparents can mind a grandchild if they are a registered childminder,...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c331GC (Link to this contribution) This is getting better. I have one more question and I wonder if I can risk it. The Minister was als...
Lord Freud | 731 c330GC (Link to this contribution) Let me clarify that for the record. The protection includes couples as well.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c330GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response, and the speakers who contributed to the debate. I e...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c330GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am aware that irony plays rather poorly in Hansard. Just to clarify for the record, I am...
Lord De Mauley | 731 c344GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I know that noble Lords will want to go on but I have to disappoint them. I suggest that t...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c343GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that response. I am happy to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 51...
Lord Freud | 731 c342-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, given the time, rather than try to rush the next amendment, instead of writing I will go t...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c341-2GC (Link to this contribution) This is another set of amendments that are probing amendments only, and should be straightforward fo...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c341GC (Link to this contribution) 51EZA: Clause 19, page 9, line 36, at end insert— ““( ) Regulations shall prescribe how these regula...
Baroness Drake | 731 c341GC (Link to this contribution) At the request of the Minister that I wrap up, I duly wrap up, and agree to withdraw my amendment. ...
Lord Freud | 731 c341GC (Link to this contribution) If I can wrap up, in anticipation of the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, wrapping up: I take on board th...
Baroness Drake | 731 c340-1GC (Link to this contribution) First, I will respond to the comments made by the Minister. I fully recognise that he has shown a re...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c340GC (Link to this contribution) You are not allowed to demonstrate things in the House, but I now have to tear up my speech. I have ...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c339-40GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have two brief points to make. I was delighted to hear the warmth of the Minister’s resp...
Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c338-9GC (Link to this contribution) I very much welcome the positive response of the Minister and the fact that he has clearly been talk...
Lord Freud | 731 c337-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, without wishing to go against normal procedure, it might be valuable if I came in straight...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c318GC (Link to this contribution) I add a couple of lines to my noble friend’s eloquent introduction to this issue. What we know from ...
Earl of Listowel | 731 c318-21GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before I speak to my amendment in this group, Amendment 51FZA, I thank the Minister for as...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c322GC (Link to this contribution) Which one of those would the noble Lord suggest we junk?
Lord Newton of Braintree | 731 c322-3GC (Link to this contribution) There are too many hurdles in the amendment. In legal terms, although I am not a lawyer, it would be...
Lord McAvoy | 731 c321-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to speak in support of the noble Earl’s amendment. There are cuts in the tax ...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 731 c322GC (Link to this contribution) May I come in from my sedentary position? I ought to start by saying that, having been in another pa...
Baroness Drake | 731 c323-5GC (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, I can use the word ““provoked”” freely because that is what has led me to rise to speak....
Baroness Grey-Thompson | 731 c323GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to speak up for working parents because I am a working mother, and as noble L...
Baroness Drake | 731 c323GC (Link to this contribution) I was not going to come in on this amendment, but I feel moved to do so—
Earl of Listowel | 731 c328GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness withdraws the amendment, I want to take this opportunity to thank the nobl...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c328GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, can the Minister give us an assurance that one possibility he could explore again is that ...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c329GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I could suggest to the Minister that Jobcentre Plus could encourage the grandparen...
Lord Freud | 731 c329-30GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am really grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, for her imaginative way of mani...
Lord Freud | 731 c329GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there are two questions here. The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, asked whether our provision c...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c329GC (Link to this contribution) It is very interesting that the noble Lord should say that, because it was exactly the advice I had ...
Lord Haskel | 731 c329GC (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Earl going to be very long?
Earl of Listowel | 731 c329GC (Link to this contribution) Anna Freud demonstrated in her life’s work how complex child development is and how professionals wo...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c325GC (Link to this contribution) I rise hesitantly, as the Minister got rather cross last time I got up, but I am brave. I was taking...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 731 c325GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will say a brief word to defend myself against this onslaught. I do not think that there...
Lord Freud | 731 c325-6GC (Link to this contribution) On that note, I shall take this opportunity to respond. My first point is that we are all in general...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c326GC (Link to this contribution) If they have good reason, we should listen to them.
Lord Freud | 731 c326-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am laughing at the memory of my own children’s disapproval of their minders. Jobcentre Plus does n...
Lord McAvoy | 731 c326GC (Link to this contribution) And the arrangements for going to school, with all the timings involved as well.
Lord Freud | 731 c326GC (Link to this contribution) That would be done through a conversation between the claimant and the adviser. Clearly, what is a r...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c316-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, again my education continues apace. I know that the Minister is a good man, that spring co...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c316GC (Link to this contribution) 51CED: Clause 18, page 9, line 3, at end insert— ““(e) the claimant having guaranteed and predictabl...
Lord Freud | 731 c315GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the best answer I can give on the whole area is to encourage us to wait until we get to th...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c315GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord makes a fair point and we will be perfectly happy to pick up the discussion on these ...
Earl of Listowel | 731 c298GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise for coming so late into this Committee debate. Earlier in the discussions on t...
Lord Freud | 731 c298GC (Link to this contribution) The first point I make to the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, is to assure her that full-time is not ...
Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c292GC (Link to this contribution) Yes. Is there not an issue here in terms of the equality implications? How does the department see t...
Lord Freud | 731 c293-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish to pick up the points raised by a number of noble Lords about how we manage ourselv...
Baroness Donaghy | 731 c292-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to raise a philosophical point about the Government wandering into the world ...
Lord Freud | 731 c298GC (Link to this contribution) No, my Lords. I am sure that the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, knows how the legislation works. That ...
Lord Freud | 731 c298-9GC (Link to this contribution) As I say, that will depend on the particular circumstances of that family. That is the point I am en...
Lord McAvoy | 731 c289-90GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, for drawing attention to that sort of matter because, with th...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 731 c288-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, like others, I was absent from the last sitting of the Committee, unavoidably. I was havin...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c288GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wonder whether I could add to the burden of questions that the Minister will be facing. ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c287-8GC (Link to this contribution) No, my Lords. The reason I added my last sentence and prevented the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, from ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c287GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment, as I explained, was a probing amendment and was not of itself meant to be taken liter...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c287GC (Link to this contribution) Can I just finish? The key question asked by the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, is to what extent there ...
Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c291-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like briefly to follow up on that because this takes us into largely uncharted wat...
Baroness Drake | 731 c290-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment and come back to its detail; my noble friend indicated that it was...
Lord Wigley | 731 c290GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that I have attended every sitting of this Committee. I find it immensely frustrat...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c285GC (Link to this contribution) 51CDZA: Clause 15, page 7, line 10, leave out ““(or more paid work or better-paid work)””
Baroness Fookes | 731 c285GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Grand Committee is in session. If there is a Division in the Chamber, as Members will ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c287GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, first of all, I should apologise to the Committee for not being here when it last discusse...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c285-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a probing amendment designed to focus on issues of in-work conditionality. We atta...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c314GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply, and all noble Lords who participated in this short deb...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c315GC (Link to this contribution) I wonder if I could come in on this. I absolutely see the dilemma and I can quite understand why you...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c314-5GC (Link to this contribution) It is a good move, because it is important. However, I do not think I can let the noble Lord get awa...
Baroness Sherlock | 731 c313GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may clarify something. I may have misheard the noble Lord and I apologise for delaying the...
Lord Freud | 731 c313GC (Link to this contribution) I will pick up on that last point from the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. There may be special circu...
Lord Freud | 731 c313-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was finishing my response to the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. We are fixing a broken s...
Lord Wigley | 731 c310GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may add briefly that I identify totally with the rural dimension that the noble Baroness h...
Lord Freud | 731 c311-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I start by expressing a degree of envy at the ability of the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, to...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c312-3GC (Link to this contribution) I have just a query for the Minister. What he is saying is wise. He understands that we fully suppor...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c309-10GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support my noble friend in particular on Amendment 51CEC, which is about the cost of tra...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c308-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 51CEC and 51CEE in this group, which probe Clauses 17 and...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c308GC (Link to this contribution) 51CEB: Clause 17, page 8, line 29, after ““locations”” insert ““which shall include consideration of...
Lord Skelmersdale | 731 c308GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I might interrupt here as I am interested in volunteering, having been a volunteer...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c308GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree with that and I am sure that we all would. I suppose it depends a little bit on th...
Lord Freud | 731 c307GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, work preparation requirements will be imposed only where it is appropriate in the circumst...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c307GC (Link to this contribution) 51CDC: Clause 16, page 7, line 28, at end insert— ““( ) The actions and time specified under subsect...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c307GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will be brief. The amendment is intended to ensure that actions taken by or on behalf of...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c306GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend says that it is all my fault; I am not sure I ever introduced anything like this, bu...
Lord Wigley | 731 c306GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord withdraws the amendment, which I suspect he was about to do, I return again to...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c304-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that and I understand his explanation of personal presentation. However, I ...
Lord Freud | 731 c305GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, clearly preparing for work shades across a number of aspects. Perhaps the most interesting...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c305GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that point, and I think we share an understanding of the benefits of those sorts of arr...
Lord Freud | 731 c305GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I cannot write in protections today but I give the assurance that this measure is intended...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c305GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for those comments and look forward to a fuller response on the protections lat...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c304GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation but I would like to press him on a few points. I s...
Lord Wigley | 731 c303GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister sits down, perhaps I may press that a little further. I am interpreting what he ...
Lord Freud | 731 c304GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, clearly there are circumstances where the main barrier to an individual getting work is an...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c299-300GC (Link to this contribution) It is always good to know that the noble Lord is behind me and I thank him for his kind words. I wan...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c299GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for his responses to a lot of detailed questions. I will just touch u...
Lord Wigley | 731 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak briefly in relation to the third of the amendments that has been put forward to Clause...
Lord Freud | 731 c302-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, not all claimants will be required to carry out all or indeed any of the actions listed in...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c300GC (Link to this contribution) 51CDA: Clause 16, page 7, line 23, leave out paragraph (b)
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c300-2GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 51CEA and 51CDB. I start with the latter. This started out as a sim...
Subjects
Childcare
Carers
Costs
Academic year
Employment
Jobseeker's allowance
Families
Interviews
Jobcentre Plus
Grandparents
Low incomes
Pay
Part-time employment
Lone parents
Social security benefits
Welfare tax credits
Transport
Working hours
Self-employed
Employment and support allowance
Universal credit
Legislation
Welfare Reform Bill 2010-12
Link
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