UK Parliament / Open data

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 15 November 2010, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Strathclyde. The answering member was Lord Falconer of Thoroton.
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. Lords second reading debate (first day). Debate adjourned until tomorrow.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
722 c567-662 
Session
2010-12
Legislative stage
Second reading
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes also published (HL Bill 26-EN).
Wednesday, 3 November 2010
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Tyler | 722 c594 (Link to this contribution) That is precisely the role of your Lordships’ House. When we reach Committee stage, I am sure there ...
Lord Touhig | 722 c594-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as a Welshman in your Lordships’ House, I will direct my remarks to the impact that the Bi...

Show all contributions (127)
Lord Wills | 722 c604-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, has already outed me, I begin with the confession that I wa...
Lord Snape | 722 c608-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow my noble friend. I have only one quibble about what he said: it...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 722 c600-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will follow the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, in talking about the alternative vote...
Lord Snape | 722 c610-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall reflect on his distinguished career, but I was surprised that he failed to point out to your...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 722 c609 (Link to this contribution) I did represent a small borough which disappeared completely. But we should dwell on the rest of my ...
Lord Snape | 722 c609 (Link to this contribution) Let me finish the point. I certainly have not finished with the noble Lord yet. However, I shall giv...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 722 c611 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for drawing to the attention of a wider audience the words that I wrote in th...
Lord Snape | 722 c611 (Link to this contribution) There were a few clichés there which I would not care to follow too far. I do not agree that the pre...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 722 c611-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as someone whose title was taken from Lerwick in Shetland, I was somewhat startled and del...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 722 c612-5 (Link to this contribution) I want to deal briefly with this, as I really want to talk about AV, if the noble Lord does not mind...
Lord Grocott | 722 c615-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having sat through this debate so far, I have been greatly encouraged, as I suppose we all...
Lord Lipsey | 722 c618-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, whoever drew up the speakers list clearly had a good sense of humour since my very good fr...
Lord Lipsey | 722 c619-20 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is, of course, completely right historically, although he makes a wholly irrelevant p...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 722 c619 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord alluded to the situation in the 1950s when he said that first past the post worked ve...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 722 c621 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps my noble friend will give way. One of his arguments is that first past the post creates rott...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 722 c585 (Link to this contribution) Time runs not to the memory of man. The noble Lord had quite a small constituency compared to an Eng...
Lord Snape | 722 c584 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the House is grateful for that bit of doggerel, but will the noble Lord accept from m...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 722 c584-5 (Link to this contribution) I say to my new ally in the campaign—Snape and Baker ranging the country—that we will draw great cro...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 722 c586-7 (Link to this contribution) With great respect, I ask the noble and learned Lord to address the figures. That is a total exagger...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 722 c586 (Link to this contribution) We introduced individual registration and it drove up registration to more than 90 per cent. It is c...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 722 c586 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and I enjoyed that enormously. I do not see where that comes into it. The constituency eventual...
Lord Snape | 722 c585 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. I remind the House that he did at one time represent...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 722 c585 (Link to this contribution) Can we have our campaign meeting later, please?
Lord Baker of Dorking | 722 c587 (Link to this contribution) Those changes are as modest as the change that the noble and learned Lord was speaking about earlier...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 722 c587 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. That brings to mind two public inquiries that I was ...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 722 c587-8 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that some will feel that, but in my experience no members of the public turned up at al...
Lord Hart of Chilton | 722 c588-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I put on record that I am a member of your Lordships’ Constitution Committee, whose report...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 722 c587 (Link to this contribution) The Boundary Commission report for England and Wales in 2007 said that 64 per cent of public inquiri...
Lord Wills | 722 c594 (Link to this contribution) I was interested in the noble Lord’s quote from the Deputy Prime Minister. This is what the Bill say...
Lord Myners | 722 c589-91 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will be brief and confine myself to a single point. I have chosen not to speak on the is...
Lord Tyler | 722 c593 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should not have gone so far into the issue of the Chartists; the noble Lord, Lord Elysta...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 722 c593 (Link to this contribution) I am much obliged to the noble Lord. The fifth point of William Lovett’s charter was equal-sized con...
Lord Rennard | 722 c623 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there are other noble Lords who favour a two-horse race between the Labour Party and the C...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 722 c623 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise for interrupting the noble Lord, but perhaps he can help me. Is not one of the...
Lord Hoyle | 722 c623 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord will recognise that there is a difference between voting in local and parli...
Lord Rennard | 722 c622-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall turn my attention to thresholds very shortly because in my view they are tied to the issue o...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 722 c622 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, when arguing the case for the alternative vote system, said that it is important for...
Lord Rennard | 722 c621-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak mostly about the principle of the referendum proposed in the Bill. I would li...
Lord Lipsey | 722 c621 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, over a very long period of time, of course, political geography changes; but, in each cont...
Lord Tyler | 722 c623-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for allowing me to intervene. Is he recalling that t...
Lord Rennard | 722 c624 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that point.
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c569 (Link to this contribution) There is none. I was just hoping that there might be a little consistency from the party opposite an...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c569 (Link to this contribution) Yes, my Lords, but on the whole I think it is better for people to know what it is they are voting o...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c567-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is considerably later than we had intended to start the main business of the day, but I...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c567 (Link to this contribution) Moved by That the Bill be read a second time.
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c568-9 (Link to this contribution) I will have a vote in the referendum. I can let your Lordships into another secret: my noble friend...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c568 (Link to this contribution) It would be madness to risk that coalition to stop the British people having a say in how they choos...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 722 c573-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, together with my noble friend Lord Bach, I shall pick up the baton so expertly carried by ...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c575 (Link to this contribution) I do not like to overquibble with the noble and learned Lord, but I went on to say that early Bills ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 722 c575 (Link to this contribution) What a load of nonsense. Of course they could be subjected to pre-legislative scrutiny. I shall tell...
Lord Tyler | 722 c575 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord was a very distinguished member of the previous Administration. Does he r...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 722 c575-7 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Tyler, exemplifies the attitude of the Liberal Democrats, who seem to think tha...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c577 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that the figure came from the air. I said that the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, had grabbed ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 722 c577 (Link to this contribution) I apologise. The noble Lord is absolutely right. It was the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, who said that the...
Lord Dubs | 722 c577 (Link to this contribution) I did not say anything. I just waved my arm a bit and I have become the centre of the debate. I am s...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c573 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that does not negate the reason for creating fairly based constituencies of 76,000 elector...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 722 c573 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not accept that it is extremely difficult to get high levels of registration in in...
Bishop of Blackburn | 722 c582-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Church of England has been around for some very considerable time. We have centuries o...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 722 c578 (Link to this contribution) My noble and learned friend has mentioned the report of the Constitution Committee. Is he also aware...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 722 c578-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was not aware of that. There seems to be a trend that any independent body within Parlia...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 722 c584 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that it will not come as a shock and surprise to my noble friend the Leader of the ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 722 c577-8 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that. The reason why I refer to that figure is because that is the group of people that...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 722 c577 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble and learned Lord appreciate that the figure given by Professor King was not of electo...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 722 c577 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may say that the unspoken interventions of my noble friend Lord Dubs are more powerful tha...
Lord Snape | 722 c570 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord. In his opinion, which political party would benefit from these chan...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c570 (Link to this contribution) I cannot possibly predict what will happen at the next general election, but all taxpayers will bene...
Lord Maples | 722 c571 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. Does he agree that an electoral system which, at the general elect...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c571 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend makes a very good point—but it is not the fundamental case that the Govern...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 722 c569 (Link to this contribution) On that particular point, is the Leader of the House not aware that because of the chaos in the Scot...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c570 (Link to this contribution) I do recall the chaos, and the noble Lord is right to refer to it. I hope that a number of lessons w...
Lord Martin of Springburn | 722 c570 (Link to this contribution) We must be even-handed, my Lords. The noble Lord will know that, because of the Scotland Act, there ...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c570 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that of course is right, which is why I pointed out the case in England. In Scotland there...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c571 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in the same way as the figure of 650 is one that has developed over time and is basically ...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c572 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, of course registration is important, and currently the average registration in the United ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 722 c573 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord accept that low registration in inner-city constituencies means high-population ...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c571-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I fully expect that this will be an issue that we shall discuss in detail when we get to t...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 722 c572 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for the way in which the Leader has given way, and I appreciate that it is d...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c571 (Link to this contribution) Given that ministerial salaries have already had a 5 per cent cut since the general election, the an...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 722 c571 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord accept that this is a constitutional issue, not a financial issue; and that by r...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c571 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the number of new Peers since the general election is infinitesimally small compared with ...
Lord Beecham | 722 c571 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, can the Minister say how much could be saved by a downward adjustment of ministerial salar...
Lord Strathclyde | 722 c573 (Link to this contribution) No, my Lords. First, the basis of deciding constituencies based on the size of the electoral registe...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 722 c571 (Link to this contribution) If the motive, as the noble Lord says, is to save money, can he say how it is consistent with the co...
Lord Rennard | 722 c626 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the parliamentary Boundary Commission has always been respected for being independent. I h...
Lord Hoyle | 722 c626 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord agree or not agree that there should be an independent inquiry if there are obje...
Lord Rennard | 722 c624-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I can think of a number of very good books that are to be recommended, some of which are c...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 722 c624 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I remain very puzzled by the noble Lord’s explanation. Surely, Mr Clegg simply messed up t...
Lord Rennard | 722 c624 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that point. As many noble Lords will know, I was very proud to ...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 722 c624 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend has said that it would not be difficult to have multiple choices on the sa...
Lord Knight of Weymouth | 722 c633-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, for the second time in seven days I am speaking in your Lordships’ House as one of a long ...
Earl of Clancarty | 722 c631-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, with the Division today I would not have wanted to see jeopardised that part of the Bill t...
Baroness Smith of Basildon | 722 c628-31 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been an extremely interesting debate. We can tell the degree of interest by the n...
Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 722 c626-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not think that I have ever agreed with the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, but I certainly a...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 722 c635-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, at this late hour I shall avoid the temptation to repeat many of the arguments that we hav...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 722 c636 (Link to this contribution) Sorry, they campaigned on having a referendum on AV. To be fair, it was a post-legislative referendu...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 722 c637-8 (Link to this contribution) A pre-legislative referendum, rather than the post-legislative referendum that is proposed in the Bi...
Lord Rennard | 722 c639 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has explained that some people in the Labour Party might now abandon their commit...
Baroness Adams of Craigielea | 722 c638-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, like my noble friend Lord Grocott, I am quite depressed about the Bill but I am also now v...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 722 c640-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that was a very thoughtful and honest speech, which I am sure the House followed with inte...
Baroness Adams of Craigielea | 722 c639-40 (Link to this contribution) I personally was never committed to AV but we are not abandoning it. Many on this side still support...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 722 c642-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I recall a veteran US Congressman stating that we have reached the stage of the debate whe...
Lord Martin of Springburn | 722 c649-51 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is not my wish to block legislation that has come out of the House which I served for m...
Lord Dubs | 722 c646-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree very much with my noble friend Lady Kennedy about the importance of being delibera...
Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 722 c644-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this Bill is a serious disappointment to me too. I think there is a need for constitutiona...
Lord Jones | 722 c660-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if the lecture of the noble Lord, Lord Norton, is half as good as his shrewd speech, his l...
Baroness Healy of Primrose Hill | 722 c659-60 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish to focus my remarks on Part 2 of the Bill as I am concerned about the proposals to ...
Lord Norton of Louth | 722 c654-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in a few hours I am catching a train back to Hull because I am teaching in the morning bef...
Lord Teverson | 722 c661-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have stayed here for so long to enjoy my two and a half minute...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 722 c597-600 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my interest in this Bill is not so much in the reduction in seats and its effect on bounda...
Lord Tyler | 722 c591-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am delighted to follow my fellow Cornishman in this debate. He may well know that I am a...
Lord Rennard | 722 c623 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am arguing that if people do not turn out to support an alternative, it is equally valid...
Lord Grocott | 722 c569 (Link to this contribution) Further to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, I hate to have to admit it in public, but w...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 722 c580-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I find myself in considerable agreement with the remarks of the noble and learned Lord, Lo...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 722 c584 (Link to this contribution) Any port in a storm. I say to my noble friend that I am supporting it because I am very much in favo...
Lord Wills | 722 c571 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. Before he moves off this point about the size of the...
Lord Plant of Highfield | 722 c651-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to concentrate my remarks on the proposals for voting reform. I agree with the crit...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 722 c569 (Link to this contribution) Is not there a big distinction, in that what the Opposition, then in government, were proposing was ...
Lord Whitty | 722 c657-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, at one point I felt that I would give up on this debate and go home, but I am glad that I ...
Subjects
Constituency size
Constituencies
Alternative vote
Costs
Electoral register
General elections
Northern Ireland
Referendums
Scotland
Voting methods
Reform
Wales
Legislation
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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