UK Parliament / Open data

Financial Services Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Wednesday, 10 March 2010, in the House of Lords.

Financial Services Bill. Lords committee stage first day. Clause 1 agreed to as amended. Clause 2 under consideration.

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

718 c245-301, 317-34

Session

2009-10

Department

Treasury

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

Government defeats
New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Financial Services Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 26-EN also published.
Tuesday, 26 January 2010
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Howard of Rising | 718 c326 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lady Noakes forgets the huge effort this side of the House put in the January before...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c326 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister is getting a bit carried away this evening. If we look back at the Northern R...

Show all contributions (150)

Lord Northbrook | 718 c324-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support my noble friend Lady Noakes in her opposition to Clauses 1 to 4. This Bill is th...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c325-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been an extensive and interesting debate, with a number of cross-currents. The Go...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c326 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is stretching his argument a little too far. Why was Canada not "overwhelmed"? I use hi...

Lord Whitty | 718 c322-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise to the noble Baroness that I was not in the Chamber to hear her speech, but I ...

Lord Howard of Rising | 718 c323-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I also support my noble friend Lady Noakes. Before so doing, I will say how much I agree w...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 718 c324 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will pick up the remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, about the FSA. It is rathe...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c326 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness points to an economy of far less significance than that of the United Kingdom. Al...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c330-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I salute the keenness with which the noble Baroness greets the council, in that she wants ...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c330 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a rather shorter topic than my last one. The amendment would add a new subsection ...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c330 (Link to this contribution) 12: Clause 2, page 2, line 19, at end insert— "( ) The Council must publish its meeting dates at lea...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c329 (Link to this contribution) I cannot let the Minister’s long reply go unanswered because there are important points on this clau...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 718 c329-30 (Link to this contribution) 11: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause— "Report on structure of UK financial system The...

Lord Howard of Rising | 718 c328 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask the Minister the question that I asked the noble Lord, Lord Myners, when he was he...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c328 (Link to this contribution) Why does the noble Lord think that under the structure there will be a chain of command of three equ...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 718 c327 (Link to this contribution) Would the Minister agree that the major cause of this, the devil in this country, was asset price in...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c327-8 (Link to this contribution) It is clear that we need maximum insight, intelligence and appreciation of the factors that led to t...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c326-7 (Link to this contribution) I certainly accept that point on the Banking Act. We all recognise that, but it is against a backgro...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c331 (Link to this contribution) The Minister seems to have had a transformation over the past few minutes now that we have moved on ...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c331 (Link to this contribution) 13: Clause 2, page 2, line 22, at end insert "and publish its response to those risks, whether in it...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c331-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 13 concerns the reports published by the Bank of England and the FSA dealing wit...

Lord Higgins | 718 c332-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Clause 2(2) is very strange in several respects. It suggests: ""Where the FSA or the Bank ...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 718 c333 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support my noble friend’s amendment for the reasons outlined by my noble friend Lo...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c333-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hesitate to stretch the concept of generosity at the Dispatch Box too far, although I ho...

Lord Newby | 718 c293-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was not going to speak to this amendment but I must congratulate the noble Baroness on s...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c290-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall move Amendment 6 and speak to Amendment 27, which is in this group. These amendmen...

Viscount Trenchard | 718 c293 (Link to this contribution) I also support the amendments tabled by my noble friend Lady Noakes. It is clear that if the Governm...

Lord Howard of Rising | 718 c292-3 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendments tabled by my noble friend Lady Noakes. It is difficult to see how anyone ca...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c289-90 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords who have spoken in this short debate, which I detect is ...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c289 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the ingenuity of my noble friend Lord Eccles in raising so many issues in the context of a...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c290 (Link to this contribution) 6: Clause 1, page 2, line 8, after "Council," insert— "( ) specify the powers each relevant authorit...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c290 (Link to this contribution) 5: Clause 1, page 2, line 8, after "Council," insert— "( ) specify the responsibilities of each rele...

Viscount Eccles | 718 c288-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is always interesting when there is a conversion from the permissive to the mandatory—a...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c297 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is a real disappointment that the Government cannot bring themselves to agree to such a...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c297 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Baroness referred to the extent to which the memorandum of understanding was rev...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c296 (Link to this contribution) 8: Clause 1, page 2, line 11, at end insert "and if the statement has not been revised for a period ...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c295-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I did not know that there was a "one each" principle on amendments; I thought we could hav...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c294-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken to this group of amendments. I will deal ...

Lord Northbrook | 718 c294 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Lady Noakes’s Amendments 6 and 27. They cover two different but important ...

Viscount Trenchard | 718 c294 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Newby, for asking me that question. Financial regulation should be harm...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c300-1 (Link to this contribution) The Government are not being secretive about the issue. On the issue of principle—the objectives bef...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c300 (Link to this contribution) I do not quite know what to do with my amendments. On a slightly different point, the Minister said ...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 718 c299 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend on her two amendments, but I must confess that I support her with rather m...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c298-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 10 in this group. Both amendments concern a consultation o...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c299 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, has expressed some doubt about Amendment 9, but only a smal...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c300 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for clarifying his position. Perhaps I should not have prayed him in...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 718 c300 (Link to this contribution) I should make my position clear. I do not think that my noble friend’s amendment goes far enough, be...

Viscount Eccles | 718 c322 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I believe this is the answer to the noble Lord, Lord Newby, as to why it is wrong to persi...

Lord Higgins | 718 c321-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I cannot recall an occasion in either House when a debate has had such a surreal atmospher...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c301,c317 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend Lord Hamilton for his support this evening and am sorry if I disappointed hi...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c301 (Link to this contribution) The public are of course concerned about the objectives. That is bound to be the case with the impor...

Lord Northbrook | 718 c301 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord not feel that public confidence might be increased by publication?

Viscount Trenchard | 718 c320 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support my noble friend Lady Noakes in her opposition to these clauses standing part of ...

Lord Newby | 718 c319-20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we disagree with both the analysis and the prescription that the noble Baroness has just g...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c317-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have given notice that we oppose Clause 1 standing part of the Bill and, for the conveni...

Lord Northbrook | 718 c276 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, like my noble friend Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbots, I am more inclined to favour Amendment...

Lord Haskins | 718 c277 (Link to this contribution) Whatever happens to this Bill, this subject will not go away after the election. We are slightly bar...

Lord Stewartby | 718 c277 (Link to this contribution) I wish to make the same point as the noble Lord about being too big to manage. It has become apparen...

Lord Sanderson of Bowden | 718 c277-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having not spoken at Second Reading, I had not intended to intervene in the debate. Howeve...

Lord Desai | 718 c278 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise for not being in my place when the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, moved the amendm...

Viscount Trenchard | 718 c278 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, thank my noble friend Lord Hamilton for giving us the opportunity to debate this q...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c278-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, congratulate my noble friend Lord Hamilton on bringing forward this amendment. As ...

Lord Desai | 718 c279 (Link to this contribution) The only problem I want to solve is not to spend taxpayers’ money rescuing banks run by incompetent ...

Lord Myners | 718 c283-4 (Link to this contribution) I believe that what the noble Lord was saying was that it would actually be in its interests to do t...

Lord Gilbert | 718 c284 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend sits down at the end of his very interesting speech, I suggest that he draws ...

Lord Myners | 718 c284-5 (Link to this contribution) That approach is part of the thinking that the world will move to in terms of international adoption...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c285 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I did not say that individual members of my party did not have a very clear view. I said t...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c288 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move government Amendment 3 and, with the leave of the Committee, to speak to Ame...

Lord Myners | 718 c285 (Link to this contribution) The Government had an open mind in very carefully considering the implications. Let the Committee be...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 718 c285-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to what has been an interesting debate. I do not accept...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 718 c286-8 (Link to this contribution) That is precisely the point of having a report that would look into all these issues. I do not know ...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c288 (Link to this contribution) 3: Clause 1, page 2, line 1, leave out "may" and insert "must"

Lord Myners | 718 c280-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, for his contribution in introducing a wide...

Lord Higgins | 718 c282 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is of course right to distinguish between the article and the so-called Volcker rule, b...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 718 c283 (Link to this contribution) May I just put the Minister right? I do not hold any view that Goldman Sachs would ever volunteer to...

Lord Myners | 718 c283 (Link to this contribution) Oh, really? I knew that it could not possibly be a decision that the Chancellor took on his own, and...

Lord Myners | 718 c283 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that it has been particularly close. The last time that Goldman Sachs gave any advice...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 718 c283 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I thought that Goldman Sachs was the adviser that encouraged the Government to sell ...

Lord Myners | 718 c282 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord bears with me, I shall get to that point in a moment. I hope that I shall continue...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 718 c283 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for bringing the Committee’s attention to my interests, but has not the relatio...

Lord Higgins | 718 c334 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said, "and the actions proposed". That is precisely what my noble friend’s amendment is...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 718 c334 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord is saying that there is no obligation to produce a report on action not taken, tha...

Lord Myners | 718 c286 (Link to this contribution) How small does the noble Lord think an organisation needs to be to fail? My experience was that even...

Lord Myners | 718 c263-4 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, for once again evidencing the fact that I still have mu...

Earl Ferrers | 718 c263 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, is the noble Lord going to be elected to the Government?

Lord Myners | 718 c264 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, for that intervention. I am happy to reassure him and other...

Viscount Eccles | 718 c264 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Minister sits down, with regard to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord N...

Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 718 c264 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will not delay the House very much longer.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 718 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) No, this is Committee stage; you can talk as many times as you like. The noble Lord should not delay...

Lord Myners | 718 c265 (Link to this contribution) I note what the noble Lord says, which of course applies to this Bill and to others, but I understan...

Lord Howard of Rising | 718 c265 (Link to this contribution) I am not quite clear. Although the noble Lord says that this new council is not an executive body an...

Lord Myners | 718 c265 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have no doubt that the chairman and chief executive of the FSA, the governor and deputy ...

Lord Newby | 718 c257 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I believe that they are to be transferred to the consumer financial education body.

Lord Higgins | 718 c257 (Link to this contribution) It did not seem to me that I was in any way out of order. I merely wanted to ask the noble Lord, Lor...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 718 c257 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may remind noble Lords what the Companion says about interruption to speeches. I...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 718 c261 (Link to this contribution) I shall resist the temptation to follow the Minister’s political bait. He is waxing eloquently about...

Lord Myners | 718 c257-61 (Link to this contribution) I was going to answer my noble friend’s point at an appropriate stage. Perish the thought that I wou...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 718 c257 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting the Minister, but in all the hubbub he may have forgotten that he has n...

Lord Myners | 718 c257 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not aware that that is the case. I certainly do not think that there is any basis on ...

Lord Myners | 718 c261-3 (Link to this contribution) I can speak to the effectiveness of the tripartite group during the middle and later stages of the f...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c269 (Link to this contribution) I am interested to hear what the noble Lord, Lord Peston, says because I know he believes that the a...

Lord Peston | 718 c269 (Link to this contribution) Several noble Lords have made that kind of point. To my certain knowledge, not a single economist of...

Lord Peston | 718 c269 (Link to this contribution) A major financial crisis falls within the field of economics rather than politics, to put it mildly....

Lord Myners | 718 c269 (Link to this contribution) The language I used was "no material expenditure".

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 718 c269 (Link to this contribution) I thought we had an absolutely clear undertaking from the Minister that no expenditure had been incu...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c269 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps we will learn in due course what "material" actually means. It is one of those words that is...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c269-70 (Link to this contribution) I say to the noble Lord, Lord Peston, that analyses were done by, for example, the Bank of England, ...

Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 718 c270 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Baroness answer a question for me? We heard a lot about this phrase, "wash-up". I thou...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c270 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that my party would never do a deal, dirty or otherwise, with this Government. Ther...

Lord Peston | 718 c268 (Link to this contribution) There is a meeting of the Labour group and my noble friend Lord Barnett has a commitment to be there...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c267-8 (Link to this contribution) The Minister rather spoilt it at the end. I was going to thank him for accepting Amendment 5, but I ...

Lord Myners | 718 c267 (Link to this contribution) I think I detect a tactic at work here. Notwithstanding the fact that the Opposition Benches talk ab...

Lord Howard of Rising | 718 c267 (Link to this contribution) If it is such a superior product and all these senior people had been meeting on such a regular basi...

Lord Myners | 718 c266-7 (Link to this contribution) In response to the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, throughout its life the tripartite arrangement involved...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 718 c265-6 (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to detain the Committee, and I think that there is general agreement that whatever we ...

Lord Myners | 718 c268 (Link to this contribution) I think the noble Baroness is on the verge of abusing process. She fully understands that I have no ...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c268 (Link to this contribution) The reason is that there has been much talk in this Committee about the process of wash-up, but the ...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c268 (Link to this contribution) That is an even more interesting piece of information. We can see where the priorities of the noble ...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c245 (Link to this contribution) 1: Clause 1, page 1, line 12, at end insert ", and ( ) where appropriate, direct the relevant author...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c245-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it a pleasure to find oneself among friends again as we start this Committee. The Minister...

Lord Newby | 718 c248-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I start by taking up the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Barnett. At one level it is high...

Lord Peston | 718 c256 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may interrupt for a moment. The only way I can make sense of the Minister’s repl...

Lord Higgins | 718 c256 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, will he say to which body—

Lord Myners | 718 c255-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I should start by addressing the point made by my noble friend Lord Barnett about ...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 718 c256 (Link to this contribution) I was responding to a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Newby, who said that not only were resource...

Lord Myners | 718 c256 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, knows, much as the noble Lord, Lord Newby, would make an excellent ...

Lord Northbrook | 718 c254 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lady Noakes on trying to clarify who is...

Lord Howard of Rising | 718 c254-5 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lady Noakes. As was pointed at Second Reading...

Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 718 c252 (Link to this contribution) I did not take part in the Second Reading of the Bill either, but I have sat this afternoon listenin...

Viscount Trenchard | 718 c252-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I echo what has been said by other noble Lords and express a certain amazement that we are...

Lord Higgins | 718 c251-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if one thing has been clear in the economic chaos of recent times, it is the failure of th...

Lord Stewartby | 718 c251 (Link to this contribution) There is a serious point. The Bill is very difficult to understand and to get a grip on regarding wh...

Lord Peston | 718 c251 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I did not take part in the Second Reading debate, although I have put in a lot of work rea...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c251 (Link to this contribution) Always.

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 718 c249-50 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support my noble friend’s amendment. The noble Lord, Lord Newby, has just put a torpedo ...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 718 c270 (Link to this contribution) 2: Clause 1, page 1, line 12, at end insert— "( ) Within 6 months of this section coming into force,...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 718 c270-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendment 2 in my name in this group. First, I declare an interest as a direct...

Lord Newby | 718 c273-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton of Epsom, on finding such an ingenious way of...

Lord Higgins | 718 c274 (Link to this contribution) Even if some parts of the Bill are eventually washed in, rather than washed out, the possibility tha...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 718 c275 (Link to this contribution) I, too, am attracted by my noble friend’s amendments, especially Amendment 11, as it would permit a ...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c296-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 8 amends Clause 1(7). As we have discussed in our debates today, Clause 1 allows...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c279-80 (Link to this contribution) That is a very good problem to be solved. I just wonder whether it will be solved by living wills. P...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 718 c253-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish to ask the Minister a question, and perhaps I should declare an interest as I am re...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 718 c323 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support my noble friend in opposing that these clauses stand part of the Bill. In ...

Lord Newby | 718 c256 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for making another interruption, but I should like to clarify what I said about staff cu...

Lord Stewartby | 718 c250-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was very interested to hear the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Barnett, about the way f...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c297 (Link to this contribution) 9: Clause 1, page 2, line 14, at end insert ", and ( ) such other persons who the Treasury consider ...

Baroness Noakes | 718 c334 (Link to this contribution) We could carry on debating the transparency that may be achieved for the Council for Financial Stabi...

Lord Barnett | 718 c248 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when my noble friend replies to this amendment—if he wants to bother—will he be so kind as...

Subjects

EU law

Financial services

Financial institutions

Insolvency

Financial markets

Economic situation

Property transfer

Parliamentary scrutiny

Staff

Regulation

USA

Legislation

Financial Services Bill 2009-10

Link

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