Coroners and Justice Bill. Lords Report stage third day. New clause (Amendment 67) debated and agreed. New clauses (Amendments 74, 75A, 75B, 81 and 90) debated and withdrawn. Adjourned.
Coroners and Justice Bill
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
713 c1169-230, 1243-63
Session
2008-09
Legislative stage
Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Proceeding contributions
Lord Bach | 713 c1262-3 (Link to this contribution)
93: Schedule 16, page 173, line 27, leave out paragraph (b) and insert—
"(b) in paragraph (b)—
(i) a...
Lord Bach | 713 c1261-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, Schedule 16 implements the council framework decision of July last year on taking account ...
Show all contributions (123)
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1262 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, your Lordships will recall that I spoke at considerable length in Committee on this issue,...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1257 (Link to this contribution)
These amendments relate to powers to impose driving disqualifications and extend the principle that ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1255-6 (Link to this contribution)
90A: Schedule 15, page 157, line 23, at end insert—
"Criminal Justice (Northern Ireland) Order 1980 ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1261 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the purpose of the amendments in this group is to insert in Schedule 16 the proviso that t...
Lord Bach | 713 c1257-60 (Link to this contribution)
90B: Schedule 15, page 158, line 38, at end insert—
"(4A) If a period determined under subsection (4...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 713 c1251-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lords, Lord Goodhart and Lord Ramsbotham, have done us a great service by raisin...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1253-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we return to the issue of indeterminate sentences for public protection, which the amendme...
Lord Goodhart | 713 c1254-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to all Members of your Lordships’ House who spoke in support of the amendmen...
Lord Goodhart | 713 c1248-50 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the purpose of this amendment is to abolish indeterminate sentences, known as IPPs or DPPs...
Lord Ramsbotham | 713 c1250-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I put my name to the amendment because ever since indeterminate sentences were proposed in...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 713 c1251 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I declare an interest as the president of the Howard League for Penal Reform. I support th...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 713 c1251 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I feel confident that, in the preparatory work for this amendment, the Minister will have ...
Lord Hylton | 713 c1251 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support the amendment on grounds of certainty, rehabilitation and resettlement.
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1200 (Link to this contribution)
76P: Clause 78, page 46, line 3, leave out "any reasonable" and insert "whether any"
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1201 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, Amendments 76P and 76Q are matters of wording more than anything else, and I do not propos...
Lord Bach | 713 c1198-200 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, Amendment 76N brings us back to the topic of special counsel, or "independent counsel" as ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1201 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.
Amendment 76P withdrawn.
Amendment 76Q not moved.
...
Lord Bach | 713 c1201-2 (Link to this contribution)
77: Clause 87, page 50, line 7, at end insert—
"(2) In the case of a witness anonymity order made by...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1201 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, Amendments 76P and 76Q pick up an issue previously discussed in Committee. I have to tell ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1202 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we move swiftly to live links, another topic that we have addressed in this House quite re...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1202 (Link to this contribution)
77A: Clause 96, leave out Clause 96
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1203 (Link to this contribution)
78: Clause 103, page 61, line 13, leave out "Enterprise and Regulatory Reform" and insert "Innovatio...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1203-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Henley, will recall that these technical amendments mirror ones we ta...
Lord Henley | 713 c1204-5 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that the noble Lord was a bit embarrassed about reading out that nonsense. We hear yet again ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1205 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, once again I am sorry that the drafting may not be elegant, but I believe it is clear. The...
Lord Bach | 713 c1205-6 (Link to this contribution)
79: Clause 103, page 61, line 19, leave out "Enterprise and Regulatory Reform" and insert "Innovatio...
Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 713 c1206 (Link to this contribution)
80A: Schedule 14, page 156, line 15, leave out paragraph (g) and insert—
"( ) the media;"
Lord Ramsbotham | 713 c1212-4 (Link to this contribution)
I shall speak also to consequential Amendment 82. Thanks to the fact that the Government have taken ...
Lord Ramsbotham | 713 c1211 (Link to this contribution)
81: After Clause 111, insert the following new Clause—
"Sentencing guidelines: voting
The sentencing...
Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 713 c1211 (Link to this contribution)
I thank those noble Lords who have taken part in this brief debate, not least my hero, the noble and...
Lord Bach | 713 c1210-1 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for reminding me; anything that the noble and learned Lo...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 713 c1210 (Link to this contribution)
We have just heard the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, with his experience as the first chairman...
Lord Bach | 713 c1209-10 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her amendments. I shall deal first with Amendments 80A and ...
Lord Woolf | 713 c1209 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I need say only a few words because I agree with everything that the noble Baroness, Lady ...
Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 713 c1206-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 80B, 89ZA and 89BA, all of which are grouped with Amendme...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 713 c1217-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the purpose of this amendment is to keep the law as it is now and has been ever since the ...
Lord Ramsbotham | 713 c1217 (Link to this contribution)
Before the Minister sits down, could he shed any light on why it has taken five and a half years to ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1215-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, these amendments provide for the replacement of the current provision on voting rights for...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1217 (Link to this contribution)
I do not feel that that would add to the issue of the debate. That is about the past and I have set ...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 713 c1214 (Link to this contribution)
After that Ciceronian speech by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, if he wishes to test the opinion of...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 713 c1215 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I declare my interest as a partner in the national commercial law firm, Beachcroft LLP. I ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1214 (Link to this contribution)
In accordance with the Liberal Democrat policy over a long time, we would support the noble Lord if ...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 713 c1224 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this has been a fascinating debate and an extremely difficult issue has been discussed. Th...
Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 713 c1222-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I feel that I must speak, not only because my hero has just spoken but to defend myself ag...
Lord Woolf | 713 c1221-2 (Link to this contribution)
The position that I was going to come to is this: that whatever precise wording we have regard to, t...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 713 c1221 (Link to this contribution)
Does my noble and learned friend accept the view of the Gage committee that the test now proposed by...
Lord Woolf | 713 c1221 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is an unhappy situation to find myself not in total agreement with my noble and learned...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 713 c1220-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we too have added our support to the first two amendments in this group, along with the no...
Earl of Listowel | 713 c1219-20 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support these amendments, to which I have attached my name, having had concerns raised w...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1247 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am most grateful for that reply. I take issue with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, about the ...
Lord Bach | 713 c1246 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we agree almost entirely with what the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, said on this issue. Amendmen...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1247 (Link to this contribution)
89D: Clause 122, page 73, line 40, leave out "demand for" and insert "resources required for the pro...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1247 (Link to this contribution)
89BA: Clause 120, page 73, line 6, leave out "demand for" and insert "resources required for the pro...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 713 c1228-30 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord. At the beginning of his response, he said that it wa...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1243 (Link to this contribution)
89A: Clause 119, page 72, line 36, leave out "may" and insert "must inform, consult and engage with ...
Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 713 c1230 (Link to this contribution)
89ZA: Clause 117, page 71, line 43, leave out "demand for" and insert "resources required for the pr...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 713 c1245-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lord’s amendment would place a duty on the sentencing council to ""inform, consu...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1243-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this amendment stands in my name and in the name of my noble friend Lady Linklater. It con...
Lord Bach | 713 c1173 (Link to this contribution)
67: After Clause 64, insert the following new Clause—
"Abolition of common law libel offences etc
Th...
Lord Bach | 713 c1173 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak also to Amendments 119, 126, 127, 129, 131, 135, 140, 141 and 142. These amen...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1177 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, there is no more evidence about the attitude of the peoples of Northern Ireland than about...
Baroness D'Souza | 713 c1177 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my name is on Amendment 75A and I shall speak briefly to it. Most of the issues have been ...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1173-7 (Link to this contribution)
As the Minister said, during the sixth day of Committee, on 9 July I moved amendments to abolish the...
Lord Henley | 713 c1178 (Link to this contribution)
Because, my Lords, these issues raise what one might refer to as heartfelt emotions, and it would th...
Lord Henley | 713 c1177-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I start by saying that we are perfectly happy with the government amendments in the group,...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1178 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I apologise for interrupting. Can the noble Lord explain why we should do this on sedition...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1169 (Link to this contribution)
66B: Clause 64, leave out Clause 64
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1169-70 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I express my thanks to the Minister for having a discussion with me about the amendment, w...
Lord Henley | 713 c1170 (Link to this contribution)
Before the Government attempt to respond to this, we want to add our thoughts to what the noble Lord...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 713 c1172 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I do not quite understand why this amendment—small though it may be—is being made now, ahe...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1172 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is the view of Her Majesty’s Government that once an anomaly, which may have some subst...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1172-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister for a very full explanation. However, it would be a bol...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 713 c1186 (Link to this contribution)
I thought the noble Lord advanced all these arguments under Amendment 75A at an earlier stage. Do we...
Earl of Sandwich | 713 c1184-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I congratulate my noble and learned friend on her perseverance. As she said, she and I met...
Baroness Young of Hornsey | 713 c1185 (Link to this contribution)
I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate, and it is gratifying to gauge the extent...
Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 713 c1184 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Baroness, Lady Young, for her persistence in this issue and the Go...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1183 (Link to this contribution)
I have nothing to declare by way of family friendship or kinship at this stage. I simply should like...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 713 c1184 (Link to this contribution)
I was pleased that I was able to speak at Second Reading and in Committee on these issues and was ab...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1183 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my name is attached to the amendment. I thank the Government for their consideration of th...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 713 c1183 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, have added my name to this amendment. I very much support what the noble Baroness,...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1185 (Link to this contribution)
75A: After Clause 64, insert the following new Clause—
"Abolition of blasphemy in Northern Ireland
T...
Lord Browne of Belmont | 713 c1179 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, first I declare an interest as a Member of the Northern Ireland Assembly. As the Minister ...
Lord Bach | 713 c1179-80 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken, particularly for what seems to be the support of t...
Baroness Young of Hornsey | 713 c1180 (Link to this contribution)
74: After Clause 64, insert the following new Clause—
"CHAPTER 4
Servitude and forced or compulsory ...
Bishop of Winchester | 713 c1178-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I think that there probably is an answer to the question that the noble Lord, Lord Lester,...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1179 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, does the right reverend Prelate recognise that, because of those strong feelings, Northern...
Bishop of Winchester | 713 c1179 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I hear what the noble Lord says and I do not deny his description of the state of the law ...
Baroness Young of Hornsey | 713 c1180-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I start by thanking all those in the House who have supported these amendments. I also ver...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1181-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, with the leave of the House, and in no way to suppress discussion, I think it might be hel...
Lord Henley | 713 c1182-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Minister has spoken. Indeed, there is a convention in this House that he can speak ear...
Lord Henley | 713 c1194-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am, as always, grateful to the Minister for his response and particularly so because he ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1193-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, to refresh our memories briefly, the new investigation anonymity orders are designed to as...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1192-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, if the principle of anonymity in investigations is accepted, as it is by the noble Lord, L...
Lord Henley | 713 c1191-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in moving this amendment I will also speak to a number of amendments in the name of the no...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 713 c1198 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak briefly in support of the proposal that special advocates should be available...
Lord Henley | 713 c1198 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak briefly to the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, as I have added my n...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1196-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we move on to witness anonymity orders in Chapter 2 of Part 3. In particular, we need to l...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1196 (Link to this contribution)
76N: Clause 77, page 45, line 25, at end insert—
"( ) For the purposes of considering an application...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1190-1 (Link to this contribution)
I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this short debate. We have removed "insulting" from the r...
Lord Henley | 713 c1191 (Link to this contribution)
76: Clause 65, page 37, line 36, leave out subsection (4)
Lord Bach | 713 c1189-90 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, for moving the amendment. We share his c...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 713 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
The procedure is that I have to put the Question as the noble Lord has spoken to the amendment. The ...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1186-7 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for the noble and learned Lord’s rebuke, but if he cares to read Hansard tomorrow he w...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
75B: After Clause 64, insert the following new Clause—
"Causing harassment, alarm and distress: rest...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
I begged to move my amendment purely to see whether anyone else wished to speak to it. I now beg lea...
Lord Monson | 713 c1188 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, although I came across the amendment only a short time ago, as a layman I warmly welcome i...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1187-8 (Link to this contribution)
This is on a completely separate matter. I move this amendment on behalf of the Joint Committee on H...
Lord Henley | 713 c1189 (Link to this contribution)
I listened carefully, as I always do, to the noble Lord, Lord Lester, and the others who spoke. We s...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 713 c1217 (Link to this contribution)
83: Clause 115, page 69, line 30, leave out "follow" and insert "have regard to"
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1260 (Link to this contribution)
92A: Schedule 16, page 168, line 18, at end insert—
"( ) This section does not apply if the defendan...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 713 c1170-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the House will not be surprised to hear that I am not going to defend the elegance of the ...
Lord Bach | 713 c1202-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the current use of live links—these are being piloted as we speak—is inconsistent. Defenda...
Lord Ramsbotham | 713 c1217 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful for that. I am also grateful to those who have spoken and for the Minister’s...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1224-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Bach, in a letter to Lord Kingsland on 8 July gave some idea of the G...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 713 c1177 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have a short question. Is there any evidence that the people of Northern Ireland want to...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 713 c1185-6 (Link to this contribution)
I want to move this amendment despite having already spoken at some length on the issue, but first I...
Lord Pannick | 713 c1188 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, support the amendment. I agree also with my noble friend Lord Monson. I find it ve...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1200 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister for his reply. He says that this is an entirely new pro...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 713 c1203 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Minister says that the use of live links is inconsistent. Some need consent, while oth...
Lord Bach | 713 c1226-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, Amendments 83 to 89 return our attention to the duty on sentencers to follow guidelines. T...
Lord Goodhart | 713 c1247-8 (Link to this contribution)
90: After Clause 127, insert the following new Clause—
"Imprisonment and detention for public protec...
Subjects
Librarians' tools
Timestamp
2025-01-04 09:26:54 +0000
URI
http://data.parliament.uk/pimsdata/hansard/PROCEEDING_80482
In Indexing
http://indexing.parliament.uk/Content/Edit/1?uri=http://data.parliament.uk/pimsdata/hansard/PROCEEDING_80482
In Solr
https://search.parliament.uk/claw/solr/?id=http://data.parliament.uk/pimsdata/hansard/PROCEEDING_80482