Coroners and Justice Bill

My Lords, the House will not be surprised to hear that I am not going to defend the elegance of the drafting of the clause. However, I will try to defend its value, why it should be retained, why we have taken this course of action and why fears that noble Lords have raised are properly addressed. Amendment 66B would remove Clause 64 from the Bill. Clause 64 amends Section 1A of the Criminal Law Act 1977 to correct a small but significant anomaly in the law of England and Wales in relation to conspiracies to commit criminal offences within other parts of the United Kingdom. At present, there is no offence of conspiring in England and Wales to commit an offence in Scotland or Northern Ireland, whereas it is an offence to conspire to commit an offence in England and Wales or to commit an offence outside the United Kingdom. Clause 64 therefore amends Section 1A(2) of the 1977 Act by replacing the words "the United Kingdom" with the words "England and Wales". The effect of Clause 64 is to widen the scope of the first condition in Section 1A(2) of the 1977 Act. This currently applies only to agreements by two or more people to pursue a course of conduct that would involve one or more of them in an act or the happening of an event intended to take place outside the United Kingdom as a whole. The amendment ensures that the condition is satisfied where the act or event is intended to take place outside England and Wales, thus including acts in Scotland or Northern Ireland. The introduction of these provisions will ensure that conspiracies in England and Wales to commit a crime within the UK can be prosecuted in the most appropriate jurisdiction—for example, where most of the evidence relating to the conspiracy is to be found and where investigatory resources can best be utilised. That may be especially advantageous in cases where the conspirators are caught before the intended crime is committed. Clause 64 does not make any retrospective provision. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas, has expressed concern on this point and I thank him for the time that he has taken to explain his concern. The proposed new subsection (15) of Section 1A expressly ensures that the change we are making does not affect conspiracies that predate our change coming into force. The effect of subsection (15) is that where a conspiracy is entered into before our change comes into force, the current law will continue to apply to such a conspiracy, so a conspiracy entered into before our clause takes effect will always be governed by the current law. Those who enter into conspiracies before the change we are proposing to make comes into force will not therefore be affected by the change at all. I should also mention subsection (14), the effect of which was queried in the other place. That subsection simply re-enacts the existing provision at subsection (14)(a) of Section 1A. That provision specifically exists in the Act in order to prevent it having any retrospective effect. Section 1A was inserted into the Criminal Law Act 1977 by the Criminal Justice (Terrorism and Conspiracy) Act 1998. The existing subsection (14)(a) provides that nothing in the section applies to a conspiracy entered into before the date that the 1998 Act was passed. That Act was passed on 4 September 1998. Clause 64 does no more than continue to ensure that Section 1A does not impose criminal liability for conduct taking place before the section was passed. Far from having retrospective effect, these clauses are drafted explicitly to prevent any retrospection. I assure the noble Lord that people who enter into a conspiracy before this change comes into force will not be affected by the change in the law. I hope that he will be satisfied with my explanation of that point and agree to withdraw his amendment. However, the specific provision that the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, raised concern about previously and alluded to in his speech is directed at specific actions that might have to be taken in the course of official duty. It is certainly not its purpose to give civil servants or anyone else complete freedom to break the law. First, I must make clear that this provision is already on the statute book in relation to this offence. All the clause does is to replicate it in removing the current jurisdictional anomaly in the provisions. To do otherwise would be inconsistent with the current position, and to remove it altogether would be a radical change to the current position, far beyond the scope of the minor extension of jurisdiction that we propose. There are a range of circumstances in which technical breaches of the conspiracy provisions may arise. For example, if the police or Customs were planning an undercover operation involving infiltration of an organised crime group, a consignment of drugs or trafficked children, it might be tracked to a number of different parts of the UK. There would obviously be no question of prosecution here in those circumstances. I believe it is right to retain a specific protection of this kind in the 1977 Act, since its removal would hinder law enforcement agencies involved in dangerous undercover work. That said, we accept that the exemption seems very wide. It raises complex and sensitive issues which require much fuller consideration than can be afforded them in the context of the Bill and the small amendment that we are discussing. There will be an appropriate opportunity to address them in the context of a full review of the laws on conspiracy and attempts, which the Law Commission has carried out and will report on shortly. In looking at the Law Commission’s recommendations, we will consider whether the existing provision remains the right one or, as seems more likely, whether things have moved on since Parliament enacted the 1998 Act. It appears from the concerns that have been raised both in this House and the other place that a different formulation might be needed. When I set this out in Committee, the noble Lord said at the end of the debate: ""I accept his explanation … and I look forward to reading the report from the Law Commission in due course".—[Official Report, 7/7/09; col. 664.]" I hope that he will similarly accept my explanation today and agree to withdraw his amendment.