Coroners and Justice Bill

I hope that the noble Lord was a bit embarrassed about reading out that nonsense. We hear yet again him trying to say that the Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform "acting personally" does not have to act personally, but that it means that a very limited number of people can do the job for him. This is a nonsense of which the noble Lord should be ashamed, as should the draftsmen who have tried to put this into the Bill. It is not clear at all. I originally raised this when I saw the words, ""the Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform"." I thought that that was a bit of a nonsense. We are all used to the expression that we see in most Bills, which refers just to "the Secretary of State". My understanding was that the Secretary of State in law was just one person, and that it was much easier when drafting a Bill just to say "the Secretary of State" because it would not need to be amended as the Prime Minister changed the names of the departments—at whim, with great regularity. We have not had a Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform for that long. Before that we had another department with another name and before that another name. At great expense, Prime Ministers change the names of departments for reasons that are beyond me. No doubt there are worthy reasons for it, but there are major costs in it. Perhaps the Prime Minister will not have time to change the name because of the amount of time that the Government have got left to cause further mischief. But, presumably, when the Prime Minister next changes the name there will be further costs and an amendment Bill will come before this House, which will no doubt be called the coroners and justice amendment Bill 2009 or 2010. It will have one clause, to change the name of the Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform to something else. At that point something might be added about "acting personally" so that we know precisely what the phrase means. I find it odd that "acting personally" means that you are not acting personally, in that other people are doing something for you. I despair of this. I remember that when we debated it, possibly late at night, the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, supported me and I was grateful for that support. I do not think I can take it further, unless she wants to come back on it, or unless the noble Lord himself wants to do so. Indeed, I now have before me the words she used in Committee; my noble friend Lord Hunt has provided me with a copy of the relevant Hansard: ""What does the Minister think a court might do with this? If the phrase is ‘acting personally’, I do not see how you can delegate".—[Official Report, 13/7/09; col. 992.]" May we have an answer to that point from the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe? I hope that he has one, and I am happy to keep on talking for a while so that a response might appear from another quarter. This is comical. The Government have tried their best but they have not tried very hard. I find it odd, particularly when, going back to Clause 103(3) the Secretary of State is acting personally, and a bit later he is not acting personally. When he is not acting personally, does he delegate to even more officials than the two officials he delegates to when he is acting personally? This is a very strange way of doing things. I do not know whether other noble Lords want to question the Minister on this, and I do not know whether he would like to try to make some sort of response. I leave it to him.