Parliamentary search - Coroners and Justice Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

712 c941-6,959-1002,1024-36

Session

2008-09

Department

Ministry of Justice

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

Government defeats
New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Coroners and Justice Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 33-EN also published.
Wednesday, 25 March 2009
Bills
House of Lords

Deposited Paper DEP2009-2168
Friday, 17 July 2009
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Deposited Paper DEP2009-2049
Wednesday, 15 July 2009
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c963-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for those reflections. When we write to noble Lords and set out how the n...

Lord Henley | 712 c964 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord cannot get away with that. He knows that it is more or less a nuclear option to vote ...

Show all contributions (91)

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c964 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is quite right—I was able to illustrate only one case from the recent past, and three...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c964 (Link to this contribution) We will come back to this on Report. The Minister should appreciate that the identity of an informer...

Lord Henley | 712 c964 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 183AA 183AA: After Clause 64, insert the following new Clause— "Review of investigation a...

Lord Henley | 712 c965 (Link to this contribution) In moving this amendment, I wish to speak also to Amendments 183B and 183C in the name of the noble ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c965-6 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak to Amendments 183B and 183C. I do not pursue Amendment 183B but Amendment 183C would...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c967 (Link to this contribution) My name is attached to the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, and he has set out the reasons fo...

Lord Bach | 712 c967-9 (Link to this contribution) I turn first to Amendment 183AA in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Henley, and say in passing how m...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c959 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 183A 183A: Clause 62, page 37, line 30, leave out subsection (4)

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c959-60 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendment 185ZG, which relates to the removal of Clause 86(7). When he was res...

Lord Henley | 712 c961 (Link to this contribution) The only reason I mentioned Amendment 185A is that I thought it was a bare minimum to at least make ...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 712 c961 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has given his view that clearly the idea of affirmative statutory instrument means th...

Lord Henley | 712 c960 (Link to this contribution) I added my name to the first of the noble Lord’s amendments, to leave out subsection (4), giving pow...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 712 c960-1 (Link to this contribution) The proposal concerns me. The Minister was speaking against Amendment 183ZA, which would have extend...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 712 c963 (Link to this contribution) I will make two points. First, I vividly recall the super-casino debate on the affirmative resolutio...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c962-3 (Link to this contribution) I will comment on the process of making an order. While the noble Lord is quite right that there is ...

Lord Henley | 712 c962 (Link to this contribution) I remind the Minister that it is a question not just of whether things slip through unnoticed. When ...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c961-2 (Link to this contribution) All through my life, I have found that when I think that something is straightforward and reasonable...

Lord Henley | 712 c941 (Link to this contribution) Clause 62: Qualifying offences Amendment 183ZA 183ZA: Clause 62, page 37, line 25, at end insert— ...

Lord Henley | 712 c941-3 (Link to this contribution) In moving the amendment, I shall also speak to Amendments 183ZB to 183ZD as well as Amendments 183AB...

Lord Henley | 712 c945-6 (Link to this contribution) If I have understood it correctly, the difference between what happens at the moment and what the Bi...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c943-5 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to give some explanation because the shape of the clause is necessary. We are creating a ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c943 (Link to this contribution) Since we are just entering into this area, perhaps it might be useful to draw from the Government so...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c945 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord well makes the case for the narrowness of the order. We see this as very particular, ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c945 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for that explanation. The difference from current practice is that to disclose th...

Lord Bach | 712 c975-6 (Link to this contribution) I am having that checked, but my understanding is that that is not right. I will come back to the no...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c976 (Link to this contribution) I am concerned. The noble Lord, Lord Dubs, has the documentation and I imagine that he will be able ...

Lord Dubs | 712 c969 (Link to this contribution) Clause 74: Applications Amendment 185 185: Clause 74, page 45, line 23, at end insert— "(7A) The c...

Lord Henley | 712 c969 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his very kind opening remarks in his response to the amendments. I also tha...

Lord Henley | 712 c971 (Link to this contribution) We have tabled Amendment 185ZZA, which would do something similar to the amendment in the name of th...

Lord Dubs | 712 c970 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 185 also stems from a report by the Joint Committee on Human Rights. The Joint Committee r...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 712 c973-5 (Link to this contribution) I support the spirit of the amendments and in so doing remind myself of the issue that led to the 20...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c971-3 (Link to this contribution) The amendment to which the noble Lord, Lord Henley, spoke, is really a rehash of what I proposed las...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c975 (Link to this contribution) Would I be right in thinking that the JCHR report said that something like 120 applications were mad...

Lord Bach | 712 c975 (Link to this contribution) I thank everyone who has spoken in this debate. Perhaps I may start by giving a few statistics, whic...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c981-2 (Link to this contribution) I have heard the explanations that the Minister gave on behalf of the Government. I shall consider t...

Lord Bach | 712 c980-1 (Link to this contribution) I should like to deal briefly with the three government amendments in this group—218B, 218C and 218D...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c978-80 (Link to this contribution) I want first to address Amendment 185ZE, in the previous group, for the purposes of replying to the ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c978 (Link to this contribution) Clause 75: Conditions for making order Amendment 185ZA 185ZA: Clause 75, page 45, line 34, leave o...

Lord Dubs | 712 c977 (Link to this contribution) I also understand that the Attorney-General’s guidelines state that such an invitation to appoint a ...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 712 c977 (Link to this contribution) Could the noble Lord also apply his mind to the question he has already raised: that there is no bla...

Lord Bach | 712 c977 (Link to this contribution) I shall write with the latest statistics to make the position clear to all noble Lords. I am conscio...

Lord Dubs | 712 c977 (Link to this contribution) If I have misled the Committee on the figures, I apologise, but I do not think I have. I am relying ...

Lord Bach | 712 c976-7 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that that refers to the number of applications for anonymity witness orders, not for speci...

Lord Dubs | 712 c976 (Link to this contribution) My information is that the concern of the Joint Committee was the very small number of cases in whic...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c993 (Link to this contribution) I have every faith in those who drafted these clauses. I am sure that when we come back and probably...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 712 c992 (Link to this contribution) What does the Minister think a court might do with this? If the phrase is "acting personally", I do ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c990 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the Minister says. I have limited experience—but I have experience. What I think is not ...

Lord Bach | 712 c988-90 (Link to this contribution) At present, consent is required for the use of a live link for certain sorts of hearing, while it is...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c987-8 (Link to this contribution) Clause 93 seeks to remove the requirement of the consent of an accused person before a live link is ...

Lord Henley | 712 c992 (Link to this contribution) This is complete nonsense. I suggest that the noble Lord takes the amendment away, goes back to his ...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c992 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Henley, makes the case for spelling out which Secretary of State quite well. I ...

Lord Henley | 712 c991-2 (Link to this contribution) I am somewhat intrigued by these amendments, which we are told are minor and technical. In my experi...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c991 (Link to this contribution) These are purely technical amendments which do not affect the substance of the clause. Clause 100 ex...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c987 (Link to this contribution) We do support the clause. I have had the experience of defending a person who was absolutely deaf an...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c985-7 (Link to this contribution) I think that the noble Lord, Lord Henley, and I were expecting the amendment to the clause to be mov...

Lord Henley | 712 c987 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful, as always, to the Minister for his response to my opposition to the clause stand...

Lord Bach | 712 c982 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 185A 185A: Clause 86, page 50, line 34, leave out subsection (3) and insert— "(3) In sect...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c983-4 (Link to this contribution) The provisions in Clause 86 form part of the Government’s strategy to tackle gun and knife crime, wh...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c982 (Link to this contribution) We submit that special measures should be used only if their use does not compromise the defendant’s...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 712 c984 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may say something about Clause 87 from the perspective of a former family judge. My own ex...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c984 (Link to this contribution) It is my fault that I did not address Clause 87 earlier, but perhaps I may make one or two points ab...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c984-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble and learned Baroness for her support. I should re-emphasise the role of the court....

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 712 c1000-1 (Link to this contribution) As always, I am grateful to the noble Lord for what he has said and for offering certain alternative...

Lord Brett | 712 c998-1000 (Link to this contribution) Before I respond to the amendment, I pass on the apologies of my noble friend Lord West of Spithead,...

Baroness Stern | 712 c1028-30 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, and to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford,...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 712 c1030-1 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. I especially support the speech just made by the noble Baroness, Lady Stern...

Lord Henley | 712 c1031-2 (Link to this contribution) I will add a few brief words to this debate. First, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, for ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c1032 (Link to this contribution) In supporting the amendments in the name of my noble friend Lady Linklater, I reflect over a somewha...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 712 c1024 (Link to this contribution) Clause 104: Sentencing Council for England and Wales Amendment 187A 187A: Clause 104, page 64, lin...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 712 c1025-8 (Link to this contribution) Having not yet spoken on this Bill and not having been present earlier due to my flight being delaye...

Lord Borrie | 712 c1028 (Link to this contribution) I say at once that the noble Baroness has expressed sentiments in relation to the late Lord Kingslan...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 712 c993-4 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 187 187: After Clause 103, insert the following new Clause— "Independent Commissioner for...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 712 c997 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment. It is very important that not only the terrorist suspect but his fami...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 712 c997 (Link to this contribution) This matter was debated at length on a previous occasion when the noble Lord, Lord West of Spithead,...

Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 712 c996 (Link to this contribution) I assure the Minister who is about to reply that my support for this proposal has not diminished in ...

Lord Hylton | 712 c996-7 (Link to this contribution) I intervene to support the amendment as a trustee of an English charitable organisation, Forward Thi...

Lord Elton | 712 c996 (Link to this contribution) I am a complete amateur in this matter. I have just one question to ask the noble and learned Lord, ...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 712 c996 (Link to this contribution) I could certainly foresee the commissioner being appointed for, say, five years. I should have thoug...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 712 c994-6 (Link to this contribution) The purpose of the amendment is to require the Secretary of State to appoint an independent commissi...

Lord Condon | 712 c996 (Link to this contribution) As a former police commissioner, I support the amendment, but not without reservations. I see a numb...

Baroness Neville-Jones | 712 c997-8 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment put forward by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd. The Government ...

Lord Bach | 712 c1034 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to escape entirely from answering the noble Lord’s question today but we will be debat...

Lord Bach | 712 c1032-4 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to see the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, taking part in Committee. We have missed...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 712 c1034-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for his very kind opening remarks, which I greatly appreciate. I thank other ...

Lord Henley | 712 c985 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister will deal with a couple of queries. As he is well aware, Clause 91 deals with t...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 712 c1028 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord makes a very fair point. I feel that there are recurring themes. Rather like doing a ...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 712 c1034 (Link to this contribution) In the case of R v Martin in 2007, the Court of Appeal said that guidelines are guidelines and no mo...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c991 (Link to this contribution) Clause 100: Powers in respect of offenders who assist investigations and prosecutions Amendment 185...

Lord Dubs | 712 c966-7 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 184 stands in my name. It stems from a recent report of the Joint Committee on Human Right...

Subjects

Disability

Children

Crime

Bail

Administration of justice

Detainees

Crimes of violence

Custodial treatment

Evidence

Homicide

Intimidation