Coroners and Justice Bill

I hear what the Minister says. I have limited experience—but I have experience. What I think is not understood is the physical limitations for the use of live links. In a very busy Crown Court that I know of, which has some 17 courts operating, there are two rooms where it is possible to take instructions along the lines that the noble Lord has mentioned. Of course there is a queue. You have to wait. It is quite impossible to go back, as I said earlier, to take instructions as a case develops. That is just physically impossible. Although the equipment can work, sometimes it does not. I am afraid that we are moving towards a situation where defendants are going to be even more packaged up and removed from the ambit of the courtroom where the judge can see and hear a real person. If this goes through, the judge will be able to sentence a person without his consent to a live link. He cannot ask him any genuine real questions by live link. He cannot appreciate the atmosphere in which the case is being advanced. We are approaching what used to be called a 1984 situation, with defendants popping up on a screen and being popped away without any physical contact with the court scene. I think that this is a retrograde step, but I will not oppose the matter any further. Clause 93 agreed. Clauses 94 to 99 agreed.