Coroners and Justice Bill

I support the amendment. I especially support the speech just made by the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, and the important point that a sentencing council should be advisory, rather than in some senses intimidating and certainly, if not carefully arranged, leaning on the judiciary. Clearly, it is important to have advice. All sentencers require it. I am very attracted by the wording of the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, because it emphasises three separate matters. With all three, I entirely agree, but I am especially attracted by new paragraphs (b) and (c). It is extremely important that the effectiveness of sentencing is monitored, that research is done—especially research to see the extent to which prison is really working and the extent to which young people, especially those aged under 18, get the right approach from the courts and from those who are taking them to the courts. I am also really attracted by the provision in new paragraph (c) about informing, consulting and engaging with the public on penal issues. That seems highly desirable. I give just one instance. The public are very punitive about young people. The public often see children and young people as evil rather than as children who may have had very bad backgrounds that have caused them to behave in a way that is totally unacceptable to the public. If the council were to "inform and engage" with the public on penal issues, a great deal of good could be done in the public perception, fuelled as it is by the press, especially the popular press, of the offences of some children. Some children are bad and have no good reason to be behaving as they do. Others have considerable mitigating reasons for their offending. It is extremely important that the sentencing council should have that really very valuable role, and, if I may respectfully say so, I commend the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, for this amendment. As the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, has said, the amendment cuts across Clauses 113 to 115, and I boldly suggest to the Minister that it would be very useful at the beginning of this part of the Bill. Almost everything else in Clauses 113 to 115, if really needed, could most usefully go into guidance and not be part of primary legislation.