Parliamentary search - Coroners and Justice Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

712 c119-31,143-91,206-14

Session

2008-09

Department

Ministry of Justice

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Coroners and Justice Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 33-EN also published.
Wednesday, 25 March 2009
Bills
House of Lords

Deposited Paper DEP2009-1875
Tuesday, 30 June 2009
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Deposited Paper DEP2009-2050
Wednesday, 15 July 2009
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde | 712 c123 (Link to this contribution) I would also like to speak to Amendments 136A and 137A. Amendment 134A is straightforward. It applie...

Lord Pannick | 712 c124 (Link to this contribution) I support the observations of the noble Baroness, Lady Dean, particularly in relation to Amendment 1...

Show all contributions (99)

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde | 712 c123 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 134A 134A: Clause 36, page 21, line 12, after second "to" insert— "(i) interested persons...

Lord Bach | 712 c128 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 138 to 140 138: Clause 36, page 21, line 35, leave out subsection (4) 139: Clause 36, ...

Lord Bach | 712 c127 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 137 137: Clause 36, page 21, line 24, at end insert "or the Coroner for Treasure" Amendm...

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde | 712 c127 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is absolutely right. Our intentions appear to be the same: to protect the families and ...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c125-7 (Link to this contribution) The rule-making power contained in Clause 36(2)(e) is intended to deal with a specific concern that ...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 712 c125 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to speak on this group of amendments, but I feel that I have to. I support the amendments...

Lord Neill of Bladen | 712 c124-5 (Link to this contribution) I support both the amendment moved by the noble Baroness for the reasons she gave and the amendment ...

Lord Bach | 712 c131 (Link to this contribution) Clause 40: Amendments to the Coroners Act (Northern Ireland) 1959 Amendment 148 148: Clause 40, pa...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 712 c145-6 (Link to this contribution) I will address Amendment 150, which has been taken over by the noble Lord. I was, indeed, a member o...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 712 c143 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 150 150: Before Clause 42, insert the following new Clause— "Reform of the law of murder ...

Lord Bach | 712 c131 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 9: Amendments to the Coroners Act (Northern Ireland) 1959 Amendment 149 149: Schedule 9, ...

Lord Clinton-Davis | 712 c148 (Link to this contribution) When does my noble and learned friend envisage that she will come forward with an appropriate soluti...

Lord Kingsland | 712 c146 (Link to this contribution) I share the views expressed by the noble and learned Lord about the legislative exercise in which th...

Baroness Murphy | 712 c146-7 (Link to this contribution) I admit to having had an interest in the law on homicide ever since serving as a psychiatrist on Lor...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c148-9 (Link to this contribution) We have to acknowledge that there is only so much time left in the current Parliament. I put it bald...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 712 c128 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 142 142: Clause 38, page 23, line 4, at end insert— "( ) In circumstances where an intere...

Lord Bach | 712 c128 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 141 141: Clause 38, page 22, line 40, leave out paragraph (l) Amendment 141 agreed.

Lord Alderdice | 712 c129 (Link to this contribution) I commend the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, for pressing this issue. It is not just a que...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 712 c128 (Link to this contribution) This is also a probing amendment. As I understand it, the clause expands slightly the list of intere...

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 712 c129 (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment because the points which my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice...

Lord Bach | 712 c129-30 (Link to this contribution) We have heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, that her Amendment 142 relates to Clause 38 and ...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 712 c130 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister. I am particularly grateful to him for clarifying on the record t...

Lord Bach | 712 c130 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 143 and 144 143: Clause 38, page 23, line 20, leave out "section 21" and insert "Chapter...

Lord Bach | 712 c130 (Link to this contribution) Clause 39: Interpretation: general Amendments 145 and 146 145: Clause 39, page 23, line 44, at end...

Lord Bach | 712 c131 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 147 147: Clause 39, page 25, line 16, at end insert— ""Treasure regulations" means regula...

Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 712 c160-1 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may offer a word of sympathy and encouragement to the noble and learned Baroness; I hope t...

Baroness Murphy | 712 c160 (Link to this contribution) I am very attracted to the ingeniously simple wording of the amendment and am a strong supporter of ...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 712 c159-60 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment. As a circuit judge, I never had to try a person for murder, but more ...

Lord Neill of Bladen | 712 c158-9 (Link to this contribution) If a lawyer was here and did not take part in the debate on this amendment, it would be a bit like t...

Baroness Warnock | 712 c158 (Link to this contribution) I very strongly support the amendment. I rise to speak only so that there should be more than one no...

Lord Pannick | 712 c157-8 (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment for all the reasons that have been given by the noble and learned Lord, Lor...

Baroness Mallalieu | 712 c156-7 (Link to this contribution) I add my voice in support of the amendment of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd. I understand t...

Lord Joffe | 712 c163-4 (Link to this contribution) When I read the amendment of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, I immediately withdr...

Lord Low of Dalston | 712 c161-2 (Link to this contribution) I am not too sure how I should be classified, whether as a lawyer or as a layman. I never practised ...

Lord Alderdice | 712 c162-3 (Link to this contribution) I want to take a matter that has been referred to by a number of noble Lords, including the noble an...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 712 c150 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 150A 150A: Before Clause 42, insert the following new Clause— "Murder: extenuating circum...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 712 c149-50 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to all those who have taken part in this interesting debate, and particularly to ...

Lord Goodhart | 712 c153-4 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, in his Amendment 150A, to whic...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 712 c150-3 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should make it clear that unlike the previous amendment, this is not just probing in natur...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c149 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is absolutely right. That is why I say that this is delicate and difficult. It is...

Baroness Knight of Collingtree | 712 c149 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble and learned Baroness recall the time when Parliament abolished the death penalty? One...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 712 c155 (Link to this contribution) I also have put my name to the amendment. I strongly agree with the way in which it was put forward ...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 712 c155 (Link to this contribution) On behalf of these Benches, I, too, strongly support the amendment proposed by the noble and learned...

Lord Clinton-Davis | 712 c155-6 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the proposition advanced by the noble and learned Lord. For many years, I practised ...

Lord Williamson of Horton | 712 c156 (Link to this contribution) I insinuate myself briefly among the lawyers, since all the preceding speakers on this amendment wer...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c170 (Link to this contribution) I hope I made it clear when I answered the first amendment that everyone—I do not think anyone demur...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 712 c170 (Link to this contribution) What does the Minister mean about needing more time? The Law Commission reported in 2004; we are now...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 712 c169 (Link to this contribution) That is the whole point, if I may say so, of the amendment. Does the Minister not accept that there ...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c170 (Link to this contribution) That brings us right back to the substance of the general debate of how we should define homicide, a...

Baroness Murphy | 712 c169 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble and learned Baroness will give way for a moment. Does she accept that in fact that...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c169 (Link to this contribution) That is partly the point. One of the things that we aspire to achieve with these provisions is a gre...

Lord Kingsland | 712 c166-8 (Link to this contribution) I know that your Lordships will agree when I say that the Committee owes a great debt to the noble a...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c168-9 (Link to this contribution) I have found this an absolutely fascinating and insightful debate. However, as I listened carefully,...

Bishop of Winchester | 712 c164-5 (Link to this contribution) As the debate on the amendment has proceeded I am sure that I am not the only Member of the Committe...

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 712 c165-6 (Link to this contribution) I would like briefly to follow the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Winchester in expressing a l...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c171-2 (Link to this contribution) It is perfectly simple if one has a definition of what the extenuating circumstances will be in any ...

Lord Neill of Bladen | 712 c172 (Link to this contribution) That is rather discouraging, as I said a moment ago that I would ask a question. The noble and learn...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 712 c172 (Link to this contribution) I need hardly say that I entirely agree with the noble Lord. The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, said that...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 712 c172 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 151 151: Clause 42, page 27, line 11, after "functioning" insert "or developmental immatu...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c170-1 (Link to this contribution) The Government have consulted extensively on the homicide provisions, both generally and in terms of...

Lord Low of Dalston | 712 c171 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Baroness accept that she has challenged the amendment with doing far more than it se...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c171 (Link to this contribution) Of course I hear what the noble Lord, Lord Low, says, but I shall come back, if I may, to the very g...

Lord Goodhart | 712 c171 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble and learned Baroness explain what is complex about this? All the jury needs to decide ...

Lord Clinton-Davis | 712 c170 (Link to this contribution) I asked if the Government had consulted the Law Society, the Bar Council, and those practising in cr...

Baroness Murphy | 712 c177-81 (Link to this contribution) I have a number of amendments in this group. I will address developmental immaturity first, but befo...

Lord Alderdice | 712 c181-3 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak to Amendments 151 and 158 in the name of my noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford, Am...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 712 c175 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting the noble Earl but, with great respect, we ought to deal with the point...

Earl of Listowel | 712 c175-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew; that was exactly the point I wished to make. He has...

Earl of Listowel | 712 c187 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble and learned Baroness for giving way. My understanding is that the frontal lobes of...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 712 c183-4 (Link to this contribution) It is with some diffidence that I follow the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice. I question whether lawyers ...

Lord Kingsland | 712 c184-5 (Link to this contribution) My remarks will, I trust, harmonise with those already expressed during the debate on this line of a...

Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 712 c174 (Link to this contribution) The purpose of this amendment is to add aback the term "developmental immaturity", which was include...

Earl of Listowel | 712 c175 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support Amendment 151, which was so eloquently spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Carlile o...

Baroness Murphy | 712 c206-8 (Link to this contribution) I move Amendment 161 with a degree of pessimism. We have already referred to the reversed provisions...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 712 c208-9 (Link to this contribution) In the light of the Government’s refusal to recognise the concept of developmental immaturity in rel...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 712 c209 (Link to this contribution) This is a further attempt to encourage the Government to recognise that there is a real difference b...

Earl of Listowel | 712 c209-10 (Link to this contribution) I regret that I cannot support the letter of these amendments, but I certainly support their spirit....

Lord Patel | 712 c210 (Link to this contribution) I wholly support the amendment and with a greater degree of optimism than my noble friend Lady Murph...

Lord Alderdice | 712 c210-1 (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to speak in this debate, because many of the things that relate to it were discus...

Lord Bach | 712 c211-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, for Amendment 161. It is an important subject. I am very co...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c187-90 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to say that where a child’s maturity is consistent with its chronological development an...

Baroness Murphy | 712 c206 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 161 161: After Clause 43, insert the following new Clause— "Diminished responsibility: ch...

Baroness Murphy | 712 c214 (Link to this contribution) Some of us believe in original sin and others do not. Perhaps the Daily Mail is going back to the or...

Lord Bach | 712 c122 (Link to this contribution) Clause 36: Coroners rules Amendment 134 134: Clause 36, page 20, line 45, after "32(1)," insert "(...

Lord Bach | 712 c122 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 133 133: After Clause 35, insert the following new Clause— "Treasure regulations (1) The ...

Lord Bach | 712 c121-2 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 8: Investigation by Chief Coroner or by judge, former judge or former coroner Amendment 13...

Lord Bach | 712 c121 (Link to this contribution) Clause 33: Investigation by Chief Coroner or by judge, former judge or former coroner Amendment 130...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 712 c121 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for clarifying the procedure. Indeed, I found it difficult to follow t...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 712 c119-20 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 129 is about appeals. Under the Bill’s new appeals system, an interested person appeals ag...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 712 c119 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 129 is a probing amendment. It has been tabled following queries raised by Inquest with th...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 712 c119 (Link to this contribution) Clause 32: Appeals to the Chief Coroner Amendment 129 129: Clause 32, page 18, line 45, leave out ...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 712 c173-4 (Link to this contribution) This is another amendment prepared by my noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford which I beg leave to m...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 712 c143-5 (Link to this contribution) The amendment stands in the name of my noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford. I hope that the Committ...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c147-8 (Link to this contribution) I commend the noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew, for standing in so manfully in the place of the n...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 712 c185-7 (Link to this contribution) This has been a very complex debate. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, and the noble Lord, Lo...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 712 c190-1 (Link to this contribution) It falls to me as the person who moved the amendment to thank everyone who has spoken in this intere...

Lord Bach | 712 c127 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 135 and 136 135: Clause 36, page 21, line 13, leave out from "delegation" to first "of" ...

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