Coroners and Justice Bill

I have found this an absolutely fascinating and insightful debate. However, as I listened carefully, a number of things became clear. First, although the noble and learned Lord says that he accepts that the mandatory life sentence will remain, perhaps I may respectfully suggest that the effect of the amendment would be that it was, de facto, expunged. Let me explain why that is so. We are dealing with a set of partial defences which at the moment would reduce a conviction for murder to one for manslaughter. The amendment proposes to say to the jury, "You may find the person guilty of murder but then you may affect the sentence of murder so that it is capable of being dealt with as if it were manslaughter by using the defence of extenuating circumstances". So there is almost—I hope that the Committee will take this in the spirit in which it is meant, because it is ingenious—a different, benign conspiracy to try to ignore the fact that we have accepted that there will not be any expunging of the mandatory life sentence. Before I come to the way in which the amendment would work, perhaps I may take up some of the points raised. First, I say to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, that I absolutely understand the position of the soldier’s family. Indeed, the privilege extends not only to those who have been subjected to a murder in the ordinary way; the noble and learned Lord will remember that one also has an opportunity to listen to families who go the other way. It is very similar to the one-punch murder/manslaughter case, where the family is devastated that someone who has done something that in one sense looks ridiculous and unintended is dealt with quite firmly. Therefore, I understand the desire here. I also understand all those who have spoken about wanting to mitigate the harshness of what would appear to be the mandatory life sentence. The noble Lords, Lord Elystan-Morgan and Lord Goodhart, put their finger on some of the issues that cause us difficulty. First, the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, says—and he is right—that one will not be able to determine what any particular jury in any particular part of the country might decide amounts to extenuating circumstances. Although the judge can give guidance about that, what criterion will the judge be invited to exercise in determining what can or cannot make up an extenuating circumstance? The right reverend Prelate asked whether I could intervene as Attorney-General and, under the provision is crafted, exercise my power under Section 36 of the 1988 Act, which relates to sentence. The answer is that I could not, because that is a power to refer in relation to sentence and not in relation to conviction. It does not relate to the verdict, and a finding of extenuating circumstances under this amendment is not a sentence. Therefore, I would envisage that if the jury in a case of mercy killing—we have talked a lot about the difficulties of cases where mercy killing is in issue—came to the conclusion, and the judge agreed, that such an extenuating circumstance justified the reduction in sentence, they would be entitled to say so. There is then the very interesting question of whether Parliament is content that individual jurors in individual circumstances would be able to determine what the law was going to be on a particular day at a particular time. It is for Parliament—