Parliamentary search - Climate Change Bill [HL]

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

698 c230-93

Session

2007-08

Department

Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Climate Change Bill (HL). (Explanatory Notes HL Bill 9-EN published).
Wednesday, 14 November 2007
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Rooker | 698 c239 (Link to this contribution) I certainly hope not, as it is not intended to be either a job creation scheme for civil servants or...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 698 c239 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry if I am still being particularly stupid. I am in the business of manufacturing some metal...

Show all contributions (134)

Lord Rooker | 698 c239 (Link to this contribution) I am completely ignorant, but I thought that that was how the City worked on all the commodities in ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c239 (Link to this contribution) I have a further question for the Minister regarding the CRC. He said that it would be likely to cov...

Lord Rooker | 698 c238 (Link to this contribution) I shall come back to that issue if I may. I apologise for not answering the question about liquidity...

Earl Ferrers | 698 c238 (Link to this contribution) Would the Minister be good enough to try to help me a little further, as this seems to be becoming c...

Lord Rooker | 698 c239-40 (Link to this contribution) I do not know the answer to that and will take advice. I also remember looking at it, because some o...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c240 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for responding to this debate, which has shown what happens when you drop a peb...

Lord Rooker | 698 c236 (Link to this contribution) I do not know, but we are talking about carbon emission trading schemes. The whole point is that the...

Baroness Byford | 698 c236 (Link to this contribution) What happens then if some of these parts come in from overseas? How and at what stage is it recorded...

Lord Rooker | 698 c237 (Link to this contribution) I might have to do that at the end of the day. Obviously I have been inadequate in explaining these ...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 698 c236-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether we are being thick—I probably am—but the Minister is describing something akin...

Lord Teverson | 698 c237-8 (Link to this contribution) This comes back to what I was saying about the previous clause. Defra’s own documentation says that ...

Lord Rooker | 698 c235 (Link to this contribution) I gave the off-cuts as an example of Clause 37(1)(b), which refers to, "““the use of materials in wh...

Lord Rooker | 698 c235-6 (Link to this contribution) I hope not in the way implied in the noble Earl’s question. I see where he is coming from. The elect...

Earl Ferrers | 698 c235 (Link to this contribution) Does that mean that all these figures are going to be collected, collated and passed on to some depa...

Lord Rooker | 698 c236 (Link to this contribution) We are talking about big figures. That is the whole point of these trading schemes. We will be deali...

Lord Dearing | 698 c236 (Link to this contribution) To follow the noble Earl’s question, to what extent have the Government considered the administrativ...

Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 698 c233 (Link to this contribution) When the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, comes to respond, I wonder whether he could indicate whether the C...

Earl of Selborne | 698 c232-3 (Link to this contribution) While these trading schemes are designed to reduce emissions—indeed Clause 37(2) makes it clear that...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 698 c232 (Link to this contribution) I would be very interested to discover whether the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, and his party are in fav...

Earl Ferrers | 698 c235 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the Minister with fascination. Am I right in understanding him to say that, if yo...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c232 (Link to this contribution) I am on a similar tack. In opposing the Question that Clause 37 stand part of the Bill, we seek clar...

Lord Redesdale | 698 c232 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that very helpful reply. Clause 36 agreed to. Clause 37 [Activities to wh...

Lord Rooker | 698 c231-2 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for jumping up before the noble Lord, Lord Teverson. I thought that I had the answer to ...

Lord Vinson | 698 c231 (Link to this contribution) I remind the Minister that microgeneration schemes are very micro and need base load electricity bac...

Lord Redesdale | 698 c230 (Link to this contribution) My purpose in opposing the Question that Clause 36 stand part of the Bill is to inquire about a pote...

Lord Teverson | 698 c230-1 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for not being here right at the beginning. We wanted more discussion of Clause 36 becaus...

Lord Rooker | 698 c230 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Mov...

Lord Rooker | 698 c281-2 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for my earlier interruption. I am working from my notes, and I have this amendment down ...

Earl of Selborne | 698 c281 (Link to this contribution) I lend my support to my noble friend. Much of this Bill seeks a fair balance between mitigation and ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c282 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister detected, this was really a probing amendment to find the degree to which the Govern...

Lord Crickhowell | 698 c282 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the Minister for replying in advance to the speech that I drafted this af...

Lord Puttnam | 698 c287-8 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may act as something of a tiebreaker and speak in general terms in support of my noble fri...

Earl Ferrers | 698 c287 (Link to this contribution) I am not persuaded by that. There is no doubt that the way this is being done can only result in a h...

Duke of Montrose | 698 c286-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall respond to the presentation made by the noble Lord, Lord Lea of Crondall, in general rather ...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 698 c282-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 182B: 182B: After Clause 49, insert the following new Clause— ““The Carbon Tax...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 698 c287 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Earl for giving way, but I do not know that he can have been listening to...

Earl Ferrers | 698 c287 (Link to this contribution) May I make an observation? Earlier, the Minister said that this Bill would not make an impact on ext...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c277-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 171: 171: Clause 48, page 21, line 19, leave out from ““Kingdom”” to end of li...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 698 c277 (Link to this contribution) I thank all Members of the Committee who have spoken. In particular, I pay tribute to the work of th...

Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 698 c275-7 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting and important debate at this point in our deliberations. I am delighted...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c280-1 (Link to this contribution) The Minister had me worried there for a moment. Amendment No. 182 relates to the Secretary of State ...

Lord Rooker | 698 c280 (Link to this contribution) I apologise, but it does not say that on my note.

Lord Rooker | 698 c280 (Link to this contribution) Is that right?

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c280 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 182: 182: Clause 49, page 22, line 8, at end insert— ““( ) The Secretary of St...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c279-80 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for reaffirming the direction in which both risk assessment and progra...

Lord Rooker | 698 c278-9 (Link to this contribution) I would like to be as brief as the noble Lord in introducing this, but the issues raised are absolut...

Lord Rooker | 698 c293 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. In moving this Motion, I suggest that the Committee stag...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 698 c292 (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, disparaged as ““bureaucracy”” what I had said about the need for a com...

Lord Whitty | 698 c288-9 (Link to this contribution) In a general sense, I want to underline the argument made by my noble friend Lord Lea. A few amendme...

Earl Ferrers | 698 c290 (Link to this contribution) I had in mind the subject so dear to the heart of the noble Lord, Lord Rooker; that is, the single f...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 698 c289-90 (Link to this contribution) I hope my noble friend will stay to hear the response, because I want him to stay to withdraw his am...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 698 c289 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting and wide-ranging debate. With his usual perception, my noble friend Lor...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 698 c292 (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend Lord Rooker and other Ministers at senior level agree to write to me on the poi...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 698 c292 (Link to this contribution) The Committee probably recognises that we are moving into the expectation of dinner time against the...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 698 c290-1 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Earl will forgive me, I will not go down the single farm payments route this evening. S...

Baroness Byford | 698 c292 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Ferrers is a big chap and well able to defend himself, but I must admit that, a...

Lord Rooker | 698 c271-2 (Link to this contribution) I am thinking aloud, in a way, because I see where the noble Lord is coming from and I want to help....

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c272 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for coming back into the debate at that point and helping me to contin...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 698 c272-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 170: 170: Clause 48, page 21, line 19, after ““Kingdom”” insert ““and the rest...

Duke of Montrose | 698 c273 (Link to this contribution) This has become an interesting process as the Minister manages to distinguish between methodology an...

Earl of Selborne | 698 c273-4 (Link to this contribution) I share my noble friend’s concern that a requirement for an adaptation plan for the whole world migh...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 698 c274 (Link to this contribution) Another connection that could be helpful to the noble Baroness, although I do not think that it is q...

Lord Teverson | 698 c274-5 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment moved by my noble friend Baroness Miller. Everybody understands that there i...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c271 (Link to this contribution) We have had a useful and interesting debate and my thoughts on the matter have developed as a result...

Lord Rooker | 698 c270-1 (Link to this contribution) For the purposes of Hansard I should say that I think the noble Baroness—unless I misheard her—meant...

Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 698 c265-6 (Link to this contribution) As I read this clause, it has to be looked at in relation to the next one. As I understand it, Claus...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 698 c266 (Link to this contribution) I was not intending to speak to this amendment but, having been asked to speak to it, I suppose I ou...

Baroness Byford | 698 c264 (Link to this contribution) My amendment is grouped with this one, and it reinforces the desire to have an annual progress repor...

Lord Crickhowell | 698 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support what has been said from both Front Benches and by my noble friend who has just sp...

Lord Crickhowell | 698 c269 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may intervene before the noble Lord responds; he may be able to cover both points together...

Baroness Byford | 698 c269-70 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Crickhowell has touched on some of the ground that I wished to cover. Continuou...

Lord Rooker | 698 c266-9 (Link to this contribution) I fully understand why having the words ““from time to time”” in the Bill might send the wrong signa...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 698 c269 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may press the Minister on bringing forward proposals to respond to our debate on the need ...

Lord Teverson | 698 c263-4 (Link to this contribution) We have added our names to this amendment, and we fully endorse those tabled by the noble Lord, Lord...

Earl Cathcart | 698 c253 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 168C: 168C: Schedule 2, page 48, line 40, leave out ““51 weeks”” and insert ““...

Earl Cathcart | 698 c253 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that—I am sure that local authorities and council tax payers will like that...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 698 c249 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to support the spirit of the amendments. I shall not repeat the points that I made when...

Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 698 c249 (Link to this contribution) I have two or three points to clarify with the Minister. I think that I am right in saying that the ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c248 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 167: 167: Schedule 2, page 42, line 13, at end insert— ““( ) The regulations m...

Lord Crickhowell | 698 c248-9 (Link to this contribution) I do not intend to repeat what I said in the lengthy debate at Second Reading, to which the noble Lo...

Earl Cathcart | 698 c251-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 168B: 168B: Schedule 2, page 48, line 12, at end insert— ““( ) The regulations...

Lord Redesdale | 698 c252 (Link to this contribution) I understand the reasoning behind the amendment. Under a Private Member’s Bill on climate change loc...

Lord Rooker | 698 c250-1 (Link to this contribution) I should say at the outset that we accept the spirit of one of these amendments, which I shall come ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c251 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response and the noble Lord, Lord Woolmer, for raising the question of ...

Lord Rooker | 698 c252-3 (Link to this contribution) Having read some of this earlier in the day, I said to officials, ““This will no doubt flush out a h...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c247 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s response, which has clarified the situation considerably. I beg lea...

Lord Crickhowell | 698 c245-6 (Link to this contribution) I have noted that the wording has been changed from that which was considered previously, but I am s...

Lord Rooker | 698 c246 (Link to this contribution) I hope that we are, overall, less confused than we were when we started, because I do not have anyth...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c246 (Link to this contribution) The Minister referred to the money Bill element. Would there be no scrutiny of that element in your ...

Lord Rooker | 698 c246 (Link to this contribution) That is the case. Mr Speaker issues a certificate as to whether a Bill is a money Bill or not. We ar...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c246 (Link to this contribution) I take it that the noble Lord is saying that we will not be involved in any discussion about these a...

Lord Rooker | 698 c246 (Link to this contribution) I have not dealt with a money Bill; when there is a money Bill, a screen goes up and I run a mile. I...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c246 (Link to this contribution) I come back to the Minister’s response to my original contribution to the debate. I was trying to es...

Lord Rooker | 698 c247 (Link to this contribution) I honestly do not know. I do not have a detailed response on that. I assume that businesses—and we a...

Baroness Byford | 698 c247 (Link to this contribution) I come back to the Minister’s first response; I understand and am quite happy with the second part. ...

Lord Rooker | 698 c247 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I was not implying anything incorrect. I appreciate that it is virtually impossible to g...

Lord Rooker | 698 c242-4 (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments, and the next few that we shall discuss, concern how the trading powers und...

Lord Crickhowell | 698 c244 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord twice mentioned the Joint Committee, and he was quite right in his second reference t...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c241-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 165A: 165A: Schedule 2, page 39, line 35, leave out sub-paragraph (4) The nob...

Lord Redesdale | 698 c242 (Link to this contribution) I speak to Amendment No. 166. One of the major flaws with the whole ETS was that the allowances allo...

Lord Redesdale | 698 c241 (Link to this contribution) We on these Benches are in favour. It might help if I make that policy statement.

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c241 (Link to this contribution) It is not my job to defend the Government’s legislation or even to use the opportunity to make a pol...

Lord Rooker | 698 c245 (Link to this contribution) I fully accept that. There has not been criticism of this, but the way in which paragraph 5(3) has b...

Lord Rooker | 698 c245 (Link to this contribution) I will have to take advice on that. I am not sure whether the noble Lord was accusing me of misquoti...

Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 698 c245 (Link to this contribution) I agree that the Joint Committee’s report was as read to the Committee by the Minister. However, par...

Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 698 c240 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, will he take this opportunity to clarify the position of Her Majest...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 698 c240-1 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Woolmer, has tempted me to comment on that now, because it was very late when w...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c262-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 169: 169: Clause 48, page 21, line 18, leave out ““from time to time”” and ins...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c262 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister. I had no intention of trying to catch him out. As he said, you have to look in...

Lord Rooker | 698 c262 (Link to this contribution) A sunset clause must be there and I would welcome some help in finding it. Definitions are made in s...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c261 (Link to this contribution) Where can the sunset clause be found in the Bill? I have been looking for it.

Lord Rooker | 698 c261 (Link to this contribution) I will have to take advice on that because as far as I can see the provision was purely based on ele...

Lord Teverson | 698 c261 (Link to this contribution) I just want to come back to the Minister on that. He was very helpful with regard to our earlier con...

Lord Rooker | 698 c260-1 (Link to this contribution) I say at the outset that to the lay person—that is, us and people outside—the use of language in leg...

Lord Rooker | 698 c258 (Link to this contribution) Those who are sitting in the Chamber as former Ministers will be well aware of the procedure. If you...

Duke of Montrose | 698 c258-9 (Link to this contribution) We are in very tricky territory, and the Minister is doing very well trying to sort his way through ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c259-60 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 168F: 168F: Schedule 4, page 53, line 21, leave out paragraphs (b) and (c) Th...

Duke of Montrose | 698 c256-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 168E: 168E: Schedule 3, page 51, line 26, leave out from beginning to end of l...

Duke of Montrose | 698 c256 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for explaining in a bit more detail some of the thinking behind the clause. We ...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 698 c258 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has now said on two occasions that the Bill is before this House with the agreement of ...

Lord Rooker | 698 c257-8 (Link to this contribution) We are in quite different territory here with the Bill; we are on to the devolution process and Orde...

Earl Cathcart | 698 c254 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for explaining that. In the Bill, it looks particularly cack-handed. It seems q...

Lord Rooker | 698 c253-4 (Link to this contribution) I hope I will be able to answer the noble Earl on the devolution point, because it might be quite in...

Lord Rooker | 698 c255-6 (Link to this contribution) We appreciate that the power of the regulation made in Part 3 of the Bill to repeal or revoke existi...

Duke of Montrose | 698 c254-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 168D: 168D: Clause 40, page 19, line 39, leave out paragraph (g) The noble Du...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 698 c289 (Link to this contribution) I withdraw what I said. I did not realise the distinction with which my noble friend would be able t...

Lord Rooker | 698 c271 (Link to this contribution) I will do so in due course.

Lord Rooker | 698 c233-5 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Taylor, is getting a taste of what it is like to be on the receiving end of the...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 698 c291 (Link to this contribution) I have to thank my noble friend for that reply, but I thought that it was very poor. The Treasury br...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c241 (Link to this contribution) I have no need to take a lead from the Lib Dems on these matters. I was seeking to suggest that I wa...

Lord Rooker | 698 c230 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, has—

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 698 c271 (Link to this contribution) In that case, I will move on. This has become almost a matter of linguistics again in the sense that...

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Carbon dioxide

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