UK Parliament / Open data

Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Bill [HL]

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 23 January 2008, in the House of Lords.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
698 c103-56GC 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Bill (HL). (Explanatory Notes HL Bill 7-EN published).
Thursday, 8 November 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Viscount Colville of Culross | 698 c152GC (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Lord add a further point to his letter? Suppose that the local authority makes a mista...
Lord Bach | 698 c107-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 33: 33: Clause 7, page 4, line 25, at end insert— ““(3A) Where a direction und...

Show all contributions (127)
Baroness Turner of Camden | 698 c107GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord mentioned representative bodies and I am inclined to agree with him. Do they include ...
Lord Colwyn | 698 c103GC (Link to this contribution) I shall make the usual routine announcement. If there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitt...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c143GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 56: 56: Clause 17, page 7, line 30, leave out ““may”” and insert ““shall, when...
Lord Bach | 698 c148GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 61: 61: Clause 18, page 8, line 32, leave out ““under this Part”” and insert “...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c140GC (Link to this contribution) I have a very short question. I notice that on page 15 the guide that we have been given says that, ...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c140GC (Link to this contribution) I have Amendments Nos. 50 and 53 in this group and they pretty much speak for themselves. We have co...
Lord Bach | 698 c138-9GC (Link to this contribution) The purpose of the clause is to ensure that, where the LBRO works to minimise unnecessary burdens im...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c132GC (Link to this contribution) Clearly my amendment is faulty in that it does not use the word ““persons””. But, as the noble Lord,...
Lord Desai | 698 c132GC (Link to this contribution) I am thinking of the possibility that people may want the body they represent to be listed but not t...
Lord Borrie | 698 c136-7GC (Link to this contribution) These amendments are extraordinarily wide in their scope. One of the examples just given by the nobl...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c124-5GC (Link to this contribution) I used the term ““jaw-jaw”” followed by ““war-war””. We have had 54 minutes of fairly heavy artiller...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c123-4GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that I am following the proper procedure if I make one or two comments now. The noble Lord sa...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c112-3GC (Link to this contribution) I will speak to the Question whether Clause 7 should stand part of the Bill, which is grouped with t...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c117-8GC (Link to this contribution) I share the concern of the noble Baroness and my noble friend Lord Eccles over this clause because o...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c148-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 65: 65: Clause 20, page 9, line 6, after ““person”” insert ““, or a group of p...
Lord Bach | 698 c151GC (Link to this contribution) I take the point. I think that I made an error in saying that the database would, as it were, be run...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c154GC (Link to this contribution) We stand behind my noble friend Lord Cope and strongly support the amendment. As he says, its wordin...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c153-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 67: 67: Clause 24, page 10, line 13, after ““agreed”” insert ““in writing”” T...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c109GC (Link to this contribution) I repeat that I am a member of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. I have not seen...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c109-10GC (Link to this contribution) We are very sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Jones, who is supposedly leading on the Bill, is again, ...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c105GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 31: 31: Clause 6, page 4, line 5, after ““giving”” insert ““, varying or revok...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c103GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 30: 30: Clause 6, page 4, line 2, at end insert— ““( ) must be given by LBRO i...
Lord Borrie | 698 c144-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that the noble Lord, Lord Cope, has now spoken to both amendments. He rightly quoted ...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c145GC (Link to this contribution) It was not reading; it was listening to the Second Reading speeches.
Lord Bach | 698 c145GC (Link to this contribution) Yes. Every possibility is before me but I commend the noble Lord, Lord Cope, for his almost religiou...
Lord Borrie | 698 c137GC (Link to this contribution) I am much obliged. I did not have any further remarks in any case.
Viscount Eccles | 698 c139-40GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 49A: 49A: Clause 15, page 7, line 8, leave out ““general or”” The noble Visco...
Lord Bach | 698 c141GC (Link to this contribution) I need to respond to both the noble Viscount and the noble Lord, Lord Cope. The noble Lord asked abo...
Lord Bach | 698 c143GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 55: 55: Clause 16, page 7, line 27, at end insert— ““(5) The Welsh Ministers m...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c141-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 51: 51: Clause 15, page 7, line 10, after ““must”” insert ““lay before both Ho...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 698 c141GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his thoughtful—I think that is the right word—reply. I am no parli...
Lord De Mauley | 698 c142GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Lord Cope in these amendments. They seem a reasonable and considered way o...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c132GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister and to the noble Lord, Lord Desai. I do not think that we shall e...
Lord Bach | 698 c132GC (Link to this contribution) We are not arguing that it is essential there should be complete anonymity. We are saying that the d...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c130GC (Link to this contribution) I find that extremely helpful. I am glad to know the spirit that lies behind the provision and I beg...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c135GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Lord Colville. I was struck forcibly when reading the evidence given to Ro...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c135-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 42B: 42B: Clause 12, page 6, line 16, leave out ““to which this section applie...
Lord Bach | 698 c121-3GC (Link to this contribution) There would be a duty to consult any relevant regulator. That would clearly be a regulator who was b...
Lord Bach | 698 c120-1GC (Link to this contribution) As is my noble friend Lord Borrie. I am surprised that they have shown such restraint when it was su...
Lord De Mauley | 698 c119-20GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to detain your Lordships further and will try to be brief, but this is clearly an importa...
Lord Bach | 698 c120GC (Link to this contribution) We have had a full debate on Clause 7; in many ways it deserves a full debate. The approach taken by...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c119GC (Link to this contribution) On the point that the noble Lord made about urgent matters such as avian flu, there are later amendm...
Lord Bach | 698 c127GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can try to answer the hypothetical question. The answer is: possibly. It would have been p...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c127-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 37: 37: Clause 9, page 5, line 13, at end insert— ““( ) LBRO must give advice ...
Lord Borrie | 698 c128-9GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Cope of Berkeley, is interesting, but he has recognis...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c112GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 34: 34: Clause 7, page 4, line 32, leave out ““in such manner as it considers ...
Lord Bach | 698 c111-2GC (Link to this contribution) Let me try to do a bit better than before, and I will move forward a bit. The point of Clause 7 is a...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c111GC (Link to this contribution) We have language like ““backstop”” and ““compulsory””, and a letter the noble Lord, Lord Jones, wrot...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 698 c118GC (Link to this contribution) This is a new regime, and a new and apparently important Bill with the LRBO. That being the case, th...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c114-7GC (Link to this contribution) I wish that I were comforted by the persuasive arguments of the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, but I am no...
Lord De Mauley | 698 c149GC (Link to this contribution) On behalf of my noble friend Lord Hodgson I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 65A and 65B, which are gr...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 698 c149-50GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that we can have clarity about this. I understand what the noble Lord, Lord Jones, said at Se...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c156GC (Link to this contribution) On Amendment No. 67, I am most grateful for what the Minister said. It is not a huge point, but it i...
Lord Bach | 698 c156GC (Link to this contribution) Before she gets to her feet, the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, is about to move an important amendmen...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 698 c109GC (Link to this contribution) In seeking clarification, I may reveal ignorance, which certainly exists. Do the amendments have thi...
Lord Bach | 698 c107GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord can push as hard as he likes but he has given the answer to his own amendment. I can ...
Lord Bach | 698 c104GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment would transform the way in which the LBRO operated. Clause 6 sets out its function of ...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c104-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, for her sympathy. I expected that the Minister wou...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c103-4GC (Link to this contribution) I have a lot of sympathy for what the noble Lord has just said but a point occurs to me. Local autho...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 698 c143GC (Link to this contribution) I should tell the Committee that if Amendment No. 56 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 57 by...
Viscount Eccles | 698 c145GC (Link to this contribution) It would be a pity if the Government did not maintain their ability to change and modernise things a...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c144GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise. I forgot to speak to Amendment No. 57 which is also in the group. I was not trying to p...
Lord Bach | 698 c145-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure the noble Lord remembered them word for word when he came to write his amendments. I apolo...
Lord Bach | 698 c146GC (Link to this contribution) I do not for one moment think that it will fail. I am confident that it will succeed, but we have to...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 698 c148GC (Link to this contribution) I should inform the Committee that if Amendment No. 61 is agreed to I cannot call Amendment No. 62 b...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c138GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 44: 44: Clause 13, page 6, line 27, leave out ““unnecessary”” and insert ““dis...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c138GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister and I accept the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, about ““mu...
Lord Bach | 698 c137-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to both the noble Lord who moved the amendment, and to my noble friend Lord Borrie for...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c142GC (Link to this contribution) Assuming the Minister does so, and I dare say there will be a number of letters as a result of this ...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c130-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 41: 41: Clause 11, page 5, line 42, after ““publish”” insert ““forthwith”” Th...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c131-2GC (Link to this contribution) I am disappointed about this because, although I understand the fall-back on the old argument about ...
Lord Bach | 698 c137GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for giving way. I am advised that subsection (1) of Clause 14, which is the ...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 698 c133GC (Link to this contribution) I want to ask the Minister a question on this because I have just become aware of the guide to which...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c133-4GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee because this matter was included in an earlier group, but some of today...
Lord Bach | 698 c134GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that Clause 11 is taken forward. I am grateful for the contribution of the noble Viscount; he...
Lord Bach | 698 c134-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Viscount. Something I should have known, but did not, is the fact that Schedule 3 ...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 698 c135GC (Link to this contribution) With respect, it is not an answer to the question. Although it deals to some extent with housing man...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c121GC (Link to this contribution) To consult whom? The amendment makes the same point as in the previous group and relates to those co...
Lord Bach | 698 c129GC (Link to this contribution) As is so often the case, my noble friend Lord Borrie has got this right. I take the amendment of the...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c127GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that point. It occurred to me that it would be right to check on the extent of the LBRO...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c126-7GC (Link to this contribution) That is helpful and I am grateful to the Minister. As we are on this territory—it arises from a poin...
Lord Bach | 698 c150-1GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Viscount has added a lot of clarity and has put our position well. What he said was right....
Viscount Colville of Culross | 698 c151GC (Link to this contribution) I respectfully say to the Minister that it does not clarify the position. We will have a system with...
Lord Bach | 698 c151GC (Link to this contribution) It will be necessary for the local authority to ask the necessary questions to ensure that its datab...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 698 c151GC (Link to this contribution) The local authority in whose area the tenanted pub or individual franchise operates currently has th...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c152GC (Link to this contribution) I was seeking clarity in this matter and I am afraid that I cannot say that I have achieved it, exce...
Lord Bach | 698 c152GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think so for a moment, but I want to make two points. The first is that on contact with the...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c153GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Viscount, Lord Colville, has put much greater precision on what I said about when it comes...
Lord Bach | 698 c153GC (Link to this contribution) I will ensure that the letter that I write to the noble Viscount, which of course will be given to o...
Lord Geddes | 698 c156GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Monday 28 January at 3.30 pm.
Lord Bach | 698 c154-5GC (Link to this contribution) We believe that there is a strong case for considering Amendment No. 67, which would require any vol...
Lord Bach | 698 c153GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 66: 66: Clause 22, page 9, line 32, at end insert— ““( ) An order under subsec...
Lord Bach | 698 c110-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to Members of the Committee for discussing these important amendments. I will do my be...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c107GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment has no restriction on any representative body. I wish every representative body to be ...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c107GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that reassurance. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, wit...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 698 c107GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 32A: 32A: Clause 6, page 4, line 9, after ““persons”” insert ““and representat...
Lord Bach | 698 c105-6GC (Link to this contribution) As the Explanatory Notes and the guide accompanying the Bill make clear, the Government have every e...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c106-7GC (Link to this contribution) We are all accustomed, when the spirit of an amendment is accepted by the Government, to having it t...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c144GC (Link to this contribution) It may be sensible for me to speak to whether Clause 17 should stand part of the Bill because one of...
Lord Desai | 698 c145GC (Link to this contribution) The best way to deal with these two amendments is to combine them and say, ““when the objective of t...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c146GC (Link to this contribution) I am no clearer about how long the Minister thinks it will take to achieve all these objectives. Ind...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c146-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am reassured by that. The Minister has explained a little of what is in the Government’s mind and ...
Lord Bach | 698 c147GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 59: 59: Clause 18, page 8, line 31, leave out ““An order under this Part is to...
Lord Bach | 698 c147GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 58: 58: After Clause 17, insert the following new Clause— ““Dissolution of LBR...
Lord Bach | 698 c147-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 60: 60: Clause 18, page 8, line 31, at end insert— ““( ) A statutory instrumen...
Lord Bach | 698 c148GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 63 and 64: 63: Clause 18, page 8, line 34, at end insert— ““( ) A statutory ...
Lord Bach | 698 c140-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity presented by these amendments to give assurances regarding the use...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c139GC (Link to this contribution) Better that I be confused than those who have to comply with the Bill when enacted. I am still not c...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 698 c141GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Cope mentioned that the guide says that the list of priorities will be given st...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c142GC (Link to this contribution) In the light of that sympathy, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdraw...
Lord Bach | 698 c142GC (Link to this contribution) We do not see any relationship between this clause and Clause 7, on which we have rightly spent so m...
Lord Bach | 698 c142-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 52: 52: Clause 15, page 7, line 15, at end insert— ““(5) The Secretary of Stat...
Lord Bach | 698 c130GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, part of the point behind Clause 9(2) is that Ministers will ask for advice on future legislatio...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c131GC (Link to this contribution) I want to make a small addition in support of what my noble friend has already said about publishing...
Lord Bach | 698 c131GC (Link to this contribution) Local authorities have repeatedly requested the Government to provide clarity regarding their priori...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 698 c134GC (Link to this contribution) I would be happy for the noble Lord to write to me but I am astonished that Mr Rogers did not consid...
Baroness Hamwee | 698 c125-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 35: 35: Clause 9, page 5, line 2, leave out ““proposals”” and insert ““recomme...
Baroness Wilcox | 698 c129GC (Link to this contribution) We fully support the amendments of my noble friend Lord Cope, which concern the better regulation th...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c129GC (Link to this contribution) I will defend my drafting in one respect at least. I grant the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, his point th...
Lord Cope of Berkeley | 698 c130GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the spirit in which the Minister replied. In effect, he said that the LBRO will sp...
Lord Bach | 698 c126GC (Link to this contribution) These amendments give me an opportunity to say a little about the reasons for creating the LBRO. Of ...
Lord Borrie | 698 c113-4GC (Link to this contribution) I notice that the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, has referred to the briefing from LACORS because of h...
Lord Desai | 698 c118-9GC (Link to this contribution) I hate to disagree with my noble friend, but I have always been puzzled in Committee on this Bill. E...
Subjects
Business
Anti-social behaviour
Charity Commission
Gambling Commission
Franchises
Highways Agency
Local government
Office of Fair Trading
Regulation
Local Better Regulation Office
Legislation
Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Bill (HL) 2007-08
Link
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