Parliamentary search - Government of Wales Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

449 c190-241

Session

2005-06

Department

Wales Office

Legislative stage

Lords amendments

Procedure

Programme motions

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Government of Wales Bill. Lords amendments.
Thursday, 13 July 2006
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Lord Hain | 449 c191 (Link to this contribution) I assume that the programme motion has been moved, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Lord Hain | 449 c191-2 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House disagrees with the Lords in the said amendment. I believe that the p...

Show all contributions (113)

Speaker | 449 c191 (Link to this contribution) Order. Moved and agreed.

Albert Owen | 449 c192 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with what the Secretary of State said about the manifesto commitment and the fact t...

Lord Hain | 449 c192-3 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, although I am not seeking to deny that there have been real improvements to the Bill as a re...

David TC Davies | 449 c205-6 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am not going to talk about the No. 73 omnibus that runs between C...

Stephen Crabb | 449 c206 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman sat through, and read the evidence sessions of, the Welsh Affairs Committee, and ...

Lembit Opik | 449 c202 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is completely right. There is a final piece of good news. If the Government’s intent...

Lord Touhig | 449 c202-3 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for mis...

David TC Davies | 449 c203 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has a point, but although that is a bizarre practice it is a fault of the proport...

Lord Touhig | 449 c203 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman and I might find ourselves in some agreement about PR, but that is perhaps a matt...

David TC Davies | 449 c203-5 (Link to this contribution) I am one of the people who the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) referred to earlier: I ...

Speaker | 449 c205 (Link to this contribution) Order.

Albert Owen | 449 c207-8 (Link to this contribution) I shall keep with the amendment that is before us. However, I agree with my hon. Friend. Our manife...

Lord Touhig | 449 c207 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that if the Liberal Democrats did not have a host of rejected parliamentar...

Albert Owen | 449 c207 (Link to this contribution) I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker. I could not resist referring to the leader of the Liberal Democra...

Albert Owen | 449 c206 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that intervention and I am very glad that my Labour colleagues in...

Lembit Opik | 449 c206 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c206 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman wants to talk about facts, he has only to look at the vote that took place in ...

Albert Owen | 449 c207 (Link to this contribution) Those two points do not relate to the clause. I think that the hon. Gentleman leads with his chin. I...

Speaker | 449 c207 (Link to this contribution) Order. First, it is not in order to refer to whoever might be in the Gallery. Secondly, let us now c...

Albert Owen | 449 c206-7 (Link to this contribution) We have had very unclear statements from the Opposition, so it is right that I read out those statem...

Lembit Opik | 449 c207 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman therefore oppose the appointment to another place of candidates who obviousl...

Albert Owen | 449 c200 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Lembit Opik | 449 c199-200 (Link to this contribution) I was momentarily distracted, Madam Deputy Speaker, by the sheep noises from the hon. Member for Val...

David TC Davies | 449 c199 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman assure us that if by any chance his party comes third, it will not seek to im...

Lembit Opik | 449 c198-9 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear that both the Conservatives and the Labour party do not want to make winners ...

Speaker | 449 c199 (Link to this contribution) Order. Although I am pleased to find such good humour among Members, perhaps we should concentrate o...

Lembit Opik | 449 c199 (Link to this contribution) The irony is lost on the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T.C. Davies), as usual. It is somewhat dog ...

Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 449 c198 (Link to this contribution) I agree with what the manifesto stated about these issues. The hon. Gentleman and I argued about thi...

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c198 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman protests too much about the Salisbury convention. Although the Liberal Demo...

Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 449 c198 (Link to this contribution) I did deals myself when I was Secretary of State for Wales, but that is another story. Whatever the ...

Roger Williams | 449 c202 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government’s proposals would not stop a successful list candidate...

Lembit Opik | 449 c202 (Link to this contribution) I have to admit that I agree with the hon. Lady. That serves to underline the reason behind my respo...

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c201-2 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman also like to acknowledge that even if the Secretary of State could not repl...

Lembit Opik | 449 c201 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman rereads a debate that we had in the past it would save me a lot of time in hig...

Wayne David | 449 c201 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman refers to the research as my research. Does he not accept that it was conducted b...

Roger Williams | 449 c201 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is very perceptive.

Lembit Opik | 449 c201 (Link to this contribution) And I am a very perceptive individual, as my hon. Friend perceptively points out. Having said that,...

Albert Owen | 449 c200-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says there is massive evidence and cited two people out of 500 who did not vote. ...

Lembit Opik | 449 c200 (Link to this contribution) In a moment—we have one robust piece of research from the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr. David), wh...

Wayne David | 449 c195 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has questioned the objective credentials of the Bevan Foundation on numerous occasions...

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c195-7 (Link to this contribution) I was not casting aspersions on the Bevan Foundation—I was just saying that I doubt that it is happy...

Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 449 c197-8 (Link to this contribution) I do not question the fact that Opposition parties should debate the manifesto of the winning party,...

Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 449 c197 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for being a little late for our debate. The Assembly elections will be held in about 10...

David TC Davies | 449 c197 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is far wiser and has more experience of the House than I, but according to ...

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c193-5 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State took the words out of my mouth. He appears to be suffering. I am sorry that h...

Lord Hain | 449 c193 (Link to this contribution) Having a permatan does not prevent one from getting a cold.

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c193 (Link to this contribution) First, may I welcome the Secretary of State to the Dispatch Box? It may be the hottest day of the ye...

Nick Ainger | 449 c228 (Link to this contribution) I think I have given the hon. Gentleman the answer: it will not be used in those circumstances. That...

Nick Ainger | 449 c228 (Link to this contribution) Let us talk about the reality. The provision will be used extremely rarely, and as I have said, indi...

Nick Ainger | 449 c227 (Link to this contribution) I cannot use those terms, because it is not possible to use them. I can only tell the hon. Gentleman...

Nick Ainger | 449 c226-7 (Link to this contribution) I note that the right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer) is fundamentally opposed to any ...

Lembit Opik | 449 c226 (Link to this contribution) Yes, the right hon. Gentleman has missed it. There is no point in pursuing a dialogue with him any f...

Lord Deben | 449 c226 (Link to this contribution) I would therefore advise the hon. Gentleman to suggest something different. I suggest that he says t...

Lord Hain | 449 c213 (Link to this contribution) No; I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman and do not propose to introduce such a provision at this ...

Lembit Opik | 449 c213 (Link to this contribution) If the Secretary of State and the Government are so concerned about giving voters a choice, will the...

Dominic Grieve | 449 c218 (Link to this contribution) What the Under-Secretary said is not the same as the comments of Lord Evans of Temple Guiting in his...

Nick Ainger | 449 c217-8 (Link to this contribution) The amendments would limit the effect of the powers to make retrospective provision in Orders in Cou...

Speaker | 449 c217 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to take Lords amendments Nos. 21 and 22 and the Government motions t...

Nick Ainger | 449 c217 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House disagrees with the Lords in the said amendment.

Dominic Grieve | 449 c219-21 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful that the Under-Secretary acknowledged that the clause, which was amended in the other ...

Nick Ainger | 449 c219 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I can give an example. Let us imagine that both Houses of Parliament agreed a measure that rela...

Lord Deben | 449 c219 (Link to this contribution) As a Minister, I always found that, when civil servants said, ““Minister, you have to do this becaus...

Nick Ainger | 449 c218-9 (Link to this contribution) Let me continue with my argument. Such a provision would never be used retrospectively to amend a co...

Lord Deben | 449 c221 (Link to this contribution) Did not my hon. Friend hear the explanation that the Minister gave as an example of when it would be...

Lembit Opik | 449 c222-3 (Link to this contribution) I am interested to hear talk of a Lib-Lab pact. I presume that the hon. Member for Beaconsfield (Mr....

Dominic Grieve | 449 c221-2 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is exactly right. This is what troubles me so much about the measure. Lord Evan...

Lembit Opik | 449 c224 (Link to this contribution) I said a few moments ago that I was reading the amendment tabled by Lord Kingsland, so the hon. Gent...

Dominic Grieve | 449 c223 (Link to this contribution) May I point out—the hon. Gentleman may already be aware—that that is exactly what the amendments pas...

Speaker | 449 c225 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the right hon. Gentleman of the nature of the amendment being considered.

Lord Deben | 449 c224-5 (Link to this contribution) The whole House should be grateful to the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) for explaini...

Lembit Opik | 449 c225-6 (Link to this contribution) I recognise the intellectual genius of the right hon. Gentleman. He and I usually agree in the Chamb...

Lord Deben | 449 c225 (Link to this contribution) I stand corrected. I return to the nature of the amendment and repeat that on this occasion the Lib...

Lord Deben | 449 c226 (Link to this contribution) I am still bemused because the hon. Gentleman is now saying that were the amendment carried, the cla...

Wayne David | 449 c210 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman answer this simple question: how on earth will it benefit the Labour party?

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c209 (Link to this contribution) In the document before me, it says that"““the Electoral Commission is an independent body establishe...

Mark Tami | 449 c209 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman refers to the Electoral Reform Society as if it does not have an agenda. It clear...

Elfyn Llwyd | 449 c209 (Link to this contribution) I differ slightly from what the hon. Gentleman says about Lord Richard. I think that Lord Richard di...

Elfyn Llwyd | 449 c208-9 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Member for Torfaen (Mr. Murphy) did not on this occasion pray in aid the piece of res...

Elfyn Llwyd | 449 c210 (Link to this contribution) That has already been explained fully. [Interruption.] How many times do hon. Members want to hear i...

Lord Hain | 449 c210 (Link to this contribution) I was gently rebuked by my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) for being too diplomati...

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c210 (Link to this contribution) It is not a question of rubbishing, ignoring or talking down the Salisbury convention, it is just th...

Lord Hain | 449 c211-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady obviously did not listen to what I was saying. I said that the issue had arisen and th...

David TC Davies | 449 c212 (Link to this contribution) Many of us here are astounded that at these many meetings that he attended there was so much anger a...

Lord Hain | 449 c212 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment. The voters should be in charge. If the voters kick somebody out in the...

Lord Hain | 449 c210-1 (Link to this contribution) I would have been happy to do a deal with the hon. Lady, if she had shown the same support for the p...

Lord Hain | 449 c211 (Link to this contribution) I just want to carry on with this point. A fistful of evidence has been presented during the debates...

Lord Hain | 449 c212-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is a vocal but junior Member of the House. I was talking about consultation on th...

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c235 (Link to this contribution) I grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way, because he is having his love-in and his little...

Lord Hain | 449 c235-6 (Link to this contribution) I find that the most extraordinary of the contributions that the hon. Lady has made during the debat...

Lord Hain | 449 c234-5 (Link to this contribution) The resolution of that problem does not lie in the Lords amendment, because even if the Lords amendm...

Lord Touhig | 449 c234 (Link to this contribution) I am following my right hon. Friend’s argument. Will he confirm that, under our constitutional arran...

Lord Hain | 449 c234 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely the case. I agree with my hon. Friend. I could not have put that better myself. T...

Lembit Opik | 449 c233 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the Secretary of State’s comments with great interest and I acknowledge that he i...

Lord Hain | 449 c233-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and I appreciate the open-minded and constr...

Lord Hain | 449 c231-3 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House disagrees with the Lords in the said amendment. This amendment remov...

Nick Ainger | 449 c228 (Link to this contribution) I think I have responded to all the points that have been made, and I am conscious of the time. Que...

Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 449 c236 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has made the constitutional points extremely well and I agree with him. But d...

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c236-7 (Link to this contribution) If there is a commitment to devolution, it is necessary to ask why the Secretary of State would want...

Lord Hain | 449 c236 (Link to this contribution) Again, I could not agree with my right hon. Friend more. He is absolutely spot on. The proposal in t...

Albert Owen | 449 c206 (Link to this contribution) It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T.C. Davies), with whom I agre...

Albert Owen | 449 c206 (Link to this contribution) I hate to correct the hon. Gentleman on facts and detail, but I was not a member of the Welsh Affair...

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c195 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to give way to the hon. Gentleman who sponsored the research.

Lembit Opik | 449 c228 (Link to this contribution) I suffered the most appalling attack from the right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer), a...

Pete Wishart | 449 c209 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will recognise the booklet that is in my hand—the Arbuthnot report...

Lembit Opik | 449 c227 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s reassurance. To save a bit of time, I ask him to confirm that as fa...

Elfyn Llwyd | 449 c209 (Link to this contribution) What agenda does the Electoral Commission have? Would the hon. Gentleman care to speculate on that? ...

Cheryl Gillan | 449 c211 (Link to this contribution) I am certainly not trying to promote the Secretary of State, who is clearly struggling. [Hon. Member...

Lembit Opik | 449 c234 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is right to say that, throughout, the Liberal Democrats have sought to improv...

Lembit Opik | 449 c198 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman cites as the core element of his argument the rule that a manifesto commitm...

Lembit Opik | 449 c201 (Link to this contribution) The reason is fairly obvious to all of us on the Opposition Benches and, I suspect, to a number of m...

Elfyn Llwyd | 449 c209-10 (Link to this contribution) This will go down as probably the most partisan change in the law in the last five years. Hon. Membe...

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Government of Wales Bill 2005-06

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