Government of Wales Bill

The right hon. Member for Torfaen (Mr. Murphy) did not on this occasion pray in aid the piece of research from Splott market. We had an exchange on that during previous proceedings. The right hon. Gentleman said that he had discussed the matter in a few pubs in his constituency. He was asked questions about time and so on, but we will not go into that now. Suffice it to say that, on any objective view, I do not believe that there is any evidence upon which the change can seriously be put to us. Opposition Members know that, despite the sterling efforts of the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr. David) and the fantastic ground-breaking piece of research that he commissioned—it was not persuasive, but ground-breaking nevertheless—we have not been presented with very much. The right hon. Member for Torfaen said that he never did deals. For someone who has been in high office in the north of Ireland, that is difficult to understand. However, I am sure that, as always, he is telling the truth. However, a deal was struck for the proposal to go through between the anti-devolution Labour party and the pro-devolutionists. That is what it is all about. It is a piece of red meat to keep those who are against further devolution happy. That may or may not be relevant to the debate. We had a sterling speech, if a little ex-cathedra, from the hon. Member for Islwyn (Mr. Touhig). It was interesting in that he showed that he does not want to see anybody else getting elected in Wales other than Labour candidates. I believe that that is his true position. At least he is honest enough to say it, and I respect that. I will not go through the evidence again because time is short and there are other important issues that we must discuss. However, I will touch briefly on one or two matters now. When the Secretary of State opened the debate he said that the Queen must give Royal Assent to the Bill at some time between now and Tuesday. The right hon. Gentleman detailed why that must be so, and I am sure that everything he said was right. He said that over the coming weeks and months there will need to be several references to the Electoral Commission for discussions and, if necessary, to vary regulations. On two occasions during his opening speech he prayed in aid the Electoral Commission. Why then was the electoral commissioner, Glyn Mathias, roundly ignored when he said that he thought that the proposal would be a partisan move and that there was no evidence to support it? Glyn Mathias commented on the research that the commission had undertaken. He said:"““This issue did not figure in that research. We asked a whole series of questions and sought unprompted replies and this issue ""did not arise…what concerns us is that there is no evidence whatever in the White Paper to back up this proposal…therefore, we came to the conclusion that we think that the case for change has not been made.””" This is the same Electoral Commission that will be busy in the coming weeks and months when the Bill is enacted. In this instance it was roundly ignored on an important part of the Bill.