Government of Wales Bill

I note that the right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer) is fundamentally opposed to any retrospection in legislation. He also said, however, that the use of Orders in Council was a back-door method, a trick and so on. Let us consider how the process would work in principle. Were a measure identified as defective, or being used in a way that was ultra vires, the Assembly would have to propose an order that would come to this place for pre-legislative scrutiny. Once the measure had been scrutinised—I am sure that at that stage any individuals who might be affected by it would make their views known—it would have to return to the Assembly with any suggested amendments. The Assembly would have to abide by the European convention on human rights; it could then send the House of Commons a draft measure which would be debated in both Houses. Given all those checks and balances, I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that the proposal is intended only to correct any technical defects and deal with any issues that are ultra vires. I can also assure him, as did my noble Friend Lord Evans, that the Orders in Council and the ultimate Assembly measure could not overturn a court decision. I hope he appreciates that. What concerns everyone—I understand the concern—is the possibility that, in principle, an individual’s rights could be affected. Let us consider what has happened in Scotland. Since 1998 this provision has been used once to deal with an ultra vires issue, a technical defect in legislation passed in the Scottish Parliament. That is why we want the clauses to remain as they are. I hope I have been able to reassure the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) that the proposal is intended to deal with technical defects and issues that may turn out to be ultra vires, that there is no intention of using the procedure to overturn any court decision, and that the rights of the individual will be protected.