UK Parliament / Open data

NHS Reorganisation

Opposition day on Wednesday, 17 November 2010, in the House of Commons, led by John Healey. The answering member was Lord Lansley.
Sixth opposition day debate (part one). Main question negatived on division (239 to 317).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
518 c904-53 
Session
2010-12
Department
Department of Health
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 518 c914 (Link to this contribution) Order. Some 15 Members are seeking to participate in the debate. Mr Speaker has therefore decided th...
John Baron | 518 c905 (Link to this contribution) How does the right hon. Gentleman account for the fact that the UK is still floundering in the lower...

Show all contributions (162)
John Healey | 518 c905 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor said in response to the Chancellor's spending review:"““W...
Lord Lansley | 518 c905 (Link to this contribution) I have a simple question for the right hon. Gentleman. Is he in favour of the budget that we announc...
John Healey | 518 c905 (Link to this contribution) There is a good case for more funding in social care, but the truth is, as Age UK says, that in this...
John Healey | 518 c906 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is right, and there is plenty of scope to do that. We recognised that, and we had plan...
Lord Lansley | 518 c906-7 (Link to this contribution) Before the right hon. Gentleman continues, may I remind him that the ““it”” that Sir David Nicholson...
John Healey | 518 c905-6 (Link to this contribution) We still have a lot further to go. There have been big improvements in international comparisons, bu...
Sarah Newton | 518 c906 (Link to this contribution) It is interesting that the right hon. Gentleman omitted from his list any mention of the escalating ...
John Healey | 518 c907 (Link to this contribution) I have read David Nicholson's transcripts, and he was indeed talking about £15 billion to £20 billio...
Andrew George | 518 c907 (Link to this contribution) As I was at the evidence session, I can confirm that Sir David Nicholson was clearly talking about t...
John Healey | 518 c904-5 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House believes that the Government is pursuing a reform agenda in health th...
Lord Lansley | 518 c905 (Link to this contribution) I do indeed deny that. It is very simple. The total NHS budget will rise in real terms. Resource fun...
John Healey | 518 c910 (Link to this contribution) The real question is why the right hon. Gentleman, if he had these plans, did not tell the Prime Min...
Andrew George | 518 c910-1 (Link to this contribution) It is incontrovertible that the White Paper contradicts the coalition agreement in respect of top-do...
John Healey | 518 c909-10 (Link to this contribution) This is precisely why those who understand the health service, including those who run it, say that ...
Lord Lansley | 518 c910 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, who is generous in giving way. It is never an ideal thing...
John Healey | 518 c909 (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course; we had been doing that for some years before the election and we had plans to do it ...
Baroness Keeley | 518 c909 (Link to this contribution) There is a great deal of talk about reducing bureaucracy and administration, but PCT staff work on i...
Sarah Wollaston | 518 c912 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that not all GPs will have to be involved with commissioning? ...
John Healey | 518 c911 (Link to this contribution) Quite so. Estimates of the cost of the reorganisation are up to £3 billion, but we have not had any ...
Helen Jones | 518 c911 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is something else that the Government are not telling us—...
John Healey | 518 c911 (Link to this contribution) The treatment centres, which the hon. Gentleman mentions, helped contribute to bringing waiting time...
Stephen Dorrell | 518 c907 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
John Healey | 518 c907 (Link to this contribution) Of course I will give way to the Chairman of the Health Committee.
Stephen Dorrell | 518 c907 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is right to say that Sir David was talking about the £15 billion to £20 bil...
John Healey | 518 c907 (Link to this contribution) Of course Sir David was talking about the two together, because the Select Committee was understanda...
David Evennett | 518 c909 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening to the right hon. Gentleman with great interest. I know his moderate views on ...
John Healey | 518 c908 (Link to this contribution) In a way it does not matter whether I agree; it matters much more that the National Rheumatoid Arthr...
Angela C Smith | 518 c908 (Link to this contribution) The Public Accounts Committee has identified that improving integration and co-ordination of service...
John Healey | 518 c908-9 (Link to this contribution) If two thirds of the GPs the hon. Gentleman met are in favour, one third are obviously not convinced...
Nick de Bois | 518 c908 (Link to this contribution) In my constituency, we have been holding one-to-one dialogues with GPs, particularly about the White...
Lord Lansley | 518 c914 (Link to this contribution) I will ask the House to reject the motion. As I listened to the speech of the right hon. Member for...
John Healey | 518 c915 (Link to this contribution) If the Secretary of State—who, I concede, has a six-and-a-half-year head start on me in this job—rea...
John Healey | 518 c913-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is new to the House, but he and his party are in government now. One of the frust...
Lord Lansley | 518 c915 (Link to this contribution) The answer to the first question is yes. The answer to the second question is that we in the coaliti...
Lord Lansley | 518 c915 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has just taken to heart the old saying that the job of the Opposition is to...
Andrew George | 518 c915 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) said earlier, the seventh point in t...
Lord Lansley | 518 c916 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) first, and then to ...
Lord Lansley | 518 c915-6 (Link to this contribution) We did know that at the time. [Interruption.] I will not engage in a conversation with the hon. Lady...
John Healey | 518 c912 (Link to this contribution) It is a very good thing that the Royal College of General Practitioners is trying to bring the skill...
David Tredinnick | 518 c912 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that we had GP fundholders during the previous Conservative Gov...
John Healey | 518 c912 (Link to this contribution) The GP fundholding experiment took place in a completely different context—within an NHS that still ...
Andrew Percy | 518 c912 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that there is some kind of ideological disagreement going on in...
John Healey | 518 c912 (Link to this contribution) I gave way to the hon. Gentleman, who I thought was in his place at the start of the debate. In that...
John Pugh | 518 c912 (Link to this contribution) Was the right hon. Gentleman perfectly happy about the situation under the last Government? When any...
John Healey | 518 c913 (Link to this contribution) Part of the problem is that there is so little detail in the White Paper that we simply cannot see h...
John Healey | 518 c913 (Link to this contribution) I am very concerned if those plans are being speeded up rather than slowed down, because that would ...
Rosie Cooper | 518 c913 (Link to this contribution) Is my right hon. Friend aware that yesterday the Health Committee was told by health service organis...
Steve Brine | 518 c913 (Link to this contribution) I know that the right hon. Gentleman does not have a policy of his own, but the motion seems to be s...
Lord Lansley | 518 c918 (Link to this contribution) For England, the White Paper sets out very clearly that specialised commissioning, whether currently...
Baroness Keeley | 518 c916 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State talks about protecting social care, but he must be aware that at the same tim...
David Evennett | 518 c917 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his determination to improve our national health service, and...
Lord Lansley | 518 c917 (Link to this contribution) No; I am addressing the point that the hon. Lady made. That cut in formula grant does not mean a cor...
Lord Lansley | 518 c917 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is simply completely wrong. Local government budgets are not being cut by the figure s...
Chris Bryant | 518 c917 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Margot James | 518 c918 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Frank Dobson | 518 c918 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Margot James | 518 c918 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State was discussing the disappointing cancer survival rates. A National Cancer Int...
Lord Lansley | 518 c918 (Link to this contribution) Of course. I will give way first to my hon. Friend.
Lord Lansley | 518 c919 (Link to this contribution) I said I would give way to the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson), if he st...
Lord Lansley | 518 c919 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I feel that it should. When the NHS last came under financial pressure in 2005-06, public healt...
Lord Lansley | 518 c919 (Link to this contribution) I explained to the right hon. Gentleman at health questions just a fortnight ago that we are in disc...
Frank Dobson | 518 c919 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman said that he wanted to improve treatment. How does he think the treatment o...
Lord Lansley | 518 c919-20 (Link to this contribution) In a moment; the right hon. Gentleman must allow me to make some progress. I was talking about the ...
John Healey | 518 c919 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lyn Brown | 518 c932-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will know about the health needs in Newham, where the incidence of TB is rising and t...
John Baron | 518 c934-5 (Link to this contribution) The Government's refresh of the cancer strategy, announced within two months of their taking office,...
Diana Johnson | 518 c933-4 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. My hon. Friend campaigned long and hard for families, especially low-income families, in...
Kate Green | 518 c933 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware that the Government have decided to abolish the health in pregnancy grant, w...
Diana Johnson | 518 c933 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. Although not all PCTs have operated as we would like, there is good practice throughout ...
Kate Green | 518 c935 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely appreciate the expertise that the hon. Gentleman brings to the debate, but I should lik...
John Baron | 518 c935-6 (Link to this contribution) I accept what the hon. Lady says, and I hope that the focus on outcomes will include matters such as...
Lyn Brown | 518 c935 (Link to this contribution) I am following the hon. Gentleman's excellent speech with care, and I totally agree with what he has...
John Baron | 518 c935 (Link to this contribution) The answer to the hon. Lady's question was supplied by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State i...
Yasmin Qureshi | 518 c937 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to speak in this debate. I want to ta...
Rosie Cooper | 518 c930 (Link to this contribution) We need to get more GPs to do that, and I think that is what the Secretary of State is trying to say...
Lisa Nandy | 518 c929 (Link to this contribution) May I mention the issue of GPs and safeguarding, the key role that GPs play in keeping children safe...
David Tredinnick | 518 c930-1 (Link to this contribution) I support the Opposition's motion in one respect: their call on the Secretary of State"““to listen t...
Speaker | 518 c931 (Link to this contribution) Order. I should remind the hon. Gentleman that we are not discussing the directive, amendments to th...
David Tredinnick | 518 c931 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. What I am talking about is relevant to cost savings, choice and the...
Speaker | 518 c931 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman is pushing at the margins. We are not discussing European directives; we a...
David Tredinnick | 518 c931 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for your help. I have made my point about Europe ha...
Speaker | 518 c931 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman, who is a very experienced Member of this House, has been pretty close to ...
Diana Johnson | 518 c932 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to have an opportunity to say a few words in this debate. Labour's investment in hea...
Lyn Brown | 518 c928 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the estimated cost of £2 billion to £3 billion for the reorganisation...
Rosie Cooper | 518 c927-8 (Link to this contribution) I often comment that when I became an MP I did not get two items that would have made life so much e...
Rosie Cooper | 518 c929 (Link to this contribution) It would help if I could hear the right hon. Gentleman, but never mind. The difficulties are topped...
Speaker | 518 c929 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Secretary of State does not need to shout across the Chamber. He has had his time.
Jim Shannon | 518 c928 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that when it comes to prevention and early diagnosis of diseases, the GP an...
Rosie Cooper | 518 c928-9 (Link to this contribution) Nobody could disagree with that. The NHS will be one where the area and street where people live wi...
Rosie Cooper | 518 c928 (Link to this contribution) Yes, glib. Where is the substance? Will it make any difference if the GP consortiums do not agree wi...
Stephen Dorrell | 518 c925-6 (Link to this contribution) In the brief time available, I do not want to follow the hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blo...
Paul Blomfield | 518 c925 (Link to this contribution) I can certainly talk at length about the enormous investment that we made in our hospitals and healt...
Grahame Morris | 518 c927 (Link to this contribution) In advancing that idea, does the right hon. Gentleman accept that the power to commission is being g...
Stephen Dorrell | 518 c927 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is a fellow member of the Select Committee and I know from our discussions that t...
Stephen Dorrell | 518 c927 (Link to this contribution) I have only 40 seconds left for my speech, so if my hon. Friend will forgive me I should like to con...
Diana Johnson | 518 c926 (Link to this contribution) But does the right hon. Gentleman agree that instead of taking such a big gamble with the NHS at thi...
Stephen Dorrell | 518 c926 (Link to this contribution) I shall come to the White Paper later, but I want to focus on what I regard as the key, unavoidable ...
Stephen Dorrell | 518 c927 (Link to this contribution) I cannot summarise the Government's proposals in the White Paper in three minutes, but one of their ...
Andrew George | 518 c948 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend rightly makes much of the need to stop the top-down reorganisations of the past and t...
Paul Burstow | 518 c949 (Link to this contribution) No. The hon. Gentleman arrived very late and was not in his place for much of the debate. We heard ...
Paul Burstow | 518 c948-9 (Link to this contribution) It will be very much up to the consortiums to decide how to configure their governance. What we have...
Diane Abbott | 518 c944-5 (Link to this contribution) This is a period of great challenge for the national health service, and it would be whoever was in ...
Diane Abbott | 518 c945-6 (Link to this contribution) No, I must get on. The cost of redundancies, when they are factored in, will be hundreds of thousan...
Paul Burstow | 518 c946-7 (Link to this contribution) This has been a revealing debate. Labour has come to the House today to make the case for the status...
John Healey | 518 c947 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right, of course; there is still more to do to improve health and to improve t...
Paul Burstow | 518 c947 (Link to this contribution) No, I said that the Opposition had failed and that they were defending a failed status quo. Let me g...
Jeremy Lefroy | 518 c947 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister will know, the independent public inquiry into Stafford hospital is taking place in ...
Paul Burstow | 518 c947 (Link to this contribution) We will, of course, follow the inquiry closely and ensure that we learn lessons from it. We would no...
Paul Burstow | 518 c948 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for raising that issue, as I was coming on to deal with th...
Frank Dobson | 518 c948 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is genuinely committed to getting away from top-down impositions, will he now ...
Steve Brine | 518 c941-2 (Link to this contribution) No, I want to finish my remarks. My right hon. Friend will remember discussing with those profession...
Rosie Cooper | 518 c940-1 (Link to this contribution) I would like to state on the record that the expression is glib when it is uttered by a Secretary of...
Steve Brine | 518 c941 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry I gave way; I expected something else. I do not think for one minute that it is glib. We ...
Jonathan Reynolds | 518 c940 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think that the terrible cuts that our local authorities will face in adult s...
Steve Brine | 518 c940 (Link to this contribution) No, there is absolutely no reason for them to do that. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State f...
Steve Brine | 518 c939-40 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief as I know that many hon. Members wish to speak. I am pleased to speak in the debate...
Kate Green | 518 c943-4 (Link to this contribution) Labour Members want to know whether the money spent on the restructuring of front-line care in our c...
Lisa Nandy | 518 c943 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that as well as the vast inequalities in life expectancy, the lingering is...
Kate Green | 518 c942-3 (Link to this contribution) Let me begin by wishing the hon. Member for Winchester (Mr Brine) and his partner well for the pendi...
Yasmin Qureshi | 518 c937 (Link to this contribution) We are told by the Government that the reorganisation is not ideologically driven, but is somehow a ...
Lisa Nandy | 518 c937 (Link to this contribution) In my constituency of Wigan, despite the extreme and visible progress that we have made in the past ...
Yasmin Qureshi | 518 c937-8 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. She and I have almost adjoining constituencies, and many of th...
Jonathan Reynolds | 518 c938 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend says that the reorganisation is ideologically driven. Is not it the case that when on...
Lyn Brown | 518 c937 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend must have noticed the chuntering taking place on the Government Front Bench. The same...
Speaker | 518 c937 (Link to this contribution) Order. That is a matter for me to control. The hon. Lady will continue with her speech. I am sure th...
Yvonne Fovargue | 518 c939 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the description of a consortium of GPs—a loose affinity of people wit...
Yasmin Qureshi | 518 c938 (Link to this contribution) I agree. I was about to discuss the impact of the reforms, with GP consortiums replacing PCTs. We kn...
Speaker | 518 c939 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am sorry, but time is up.
Yasmin Qureshi | 518 c939 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Some years ago, when that sort of process was introduc...
David Lammy | 518 c923 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Lansley | 518 c922-3 (Link to this contribution) I have already given way to the right hon. Gentleman, and I am now going to conclude rapidly. Contr...
Frank Dobson | 518 c923 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Lansley | 518 c923 (Link to this contribution) No. Against all the advice from the Opposition, we protected the NHS budget in the spending review....
Paul Blomfield | 518 c924 (Link to this contribution) I want to focus on one specific part of the Government's plans, which has already been mentioned by ...
Lord Lansley | 518 c923-4 (Link to this contribution) I gave way to the right hon. Gentleman before. The big gamble is not pressing ahead with reform; th...
Paul Blomfield | 518 c925 (Link to this contribution) I certainly would. To cut the tariff from 78% to 25% is the most outrageous proposal on health care ...
Lyn Brown | 518 c924 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that that puts a whole new slant on the saying, ““Women and children first...
Gordon Birtwistle | 518 c925 (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased that the hon. Gentleman has an excellent hospital in his constituency. Will he adv...
Lord Lansley | 518 c920-1 (Link to this contribution) Yes, my hon. Friend makes a good point. What we are looking for is not a league table at all, as hea...
John Baron | 518 c920 (Link to this contribution) I totally commend the Government for their focus on cancer reform and improving outcomes. I accept t...
Lord Lansley | 518 c920 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not do those things, because what I said was accurate. The specialist children's hospital...
John Healey | 518 c920 (Link to this contribution) I wanted to intervene to discuss what my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Fr...
Lord Lansley | 518 c921 (Link to this contribution) Not only is it my choice, but it is a necessity. As you said earlier, Madam Deputy Speaker, 15 Membe...
Speaker | 518 c921 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Secretary of State is indicating that he is not giving way, and that is his choice.
Lord Lansley | 518 c921 (Link to this contribution) I am not giving way, so the hon. Lady must sit down. [Interruption.]
Lord Lansley | 518 c922 (Link to this contribution) What is very clear from the Health Committee's report before the election is that, as the right hon....
Kevin Barron | 518 c921-2 (Link to this contribution) On at least two occasions in the House since the general election, the right hon. Gentleman has cite...
Baroness Keeley | 518 c917 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Chris Bryant | 518 c918 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. He has argued the need for greater localism ...
John Healey | 518 c907-8 (Link to this contribution) If the right hon. Gentleman reads the official record, he will see I have just said that I will back...
Lord Lansley | 518 c917-8 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a little progress first. The Opposition motion reveals that they have no alternative...
Lord Lansley | 518 c917 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Minister of State, Department of Health, my hon. Friend the ...
Rosie Cooper | 518 c928 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. I am sure the Secretary of State will give due cognisance to the comments being made, es...
Simon Danczuk | 518 c926 (Link to this contribution) If there is a requirement for more clinical involvement—for GPs to be more involved in commissioning...
Subjects
Cost effectiveness
Administration
Hospitals
Health services
General practitioners
NHS
Management
Public expenditure
Procurement
Primary care trusts
Waiting lists
Standards
Social services
Reorganisation
Cuts
Link
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