Parliamentary search - Equality Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

716 c298-351,367-92

Session

2009-10

Department

Government Equalities Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Equality Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 20-EN also published.
Thursday, 3 December 2009
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Graham of Edmonton | 716 c306-7 (Link to this contribution) I know the area and, so far as I know, the people there are very proud of the noble Lord. I receive...

Baroness O'Cathain | 716 c307 (Link to this contribution) Is it possible for the noble Lord to make available in the Library the statistics that he gave us? W...

Show all contributions (140)

Lord Graham of Edmonton | 716 c307 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Baroness said, they are breath-taking. I have taken a breath and I will sit down.

Lord Graham of Edmonton | 716 c305 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is a pleasure to take part in this debate, and I hang my hat on Amendment 2. I start by...

Baroness Meacher | 716 c304-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I congratulate the Government on bringing forward the Bill, which will strengthen existing...

Lord Tebbit | 716 c305 (Link to this contribution) Oxford Road.

Baroness Warsi | 716 c298-302 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to the other amendments in my name in this group as well. It is a pleasure t...

Baroness Warsi | 716 c298 (Link to this contribution) 1: Clause 1, page 1, line 7, leave out "outcome" and insert "opportunity"

Lord Tebbit | 716 c303-4 (Link to this contribution) The Labour Party has come a very long way over the past 100 years or so. When we look back to those ...

Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 716 c302-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the clause and oppose the amendments. My justification for doing so is that soci...

Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 716 c309 (Link to this contribution) My Lords—

Lord Tebbit | 716 c308-9 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend could perhaps be a bit more optimistic. Perhaps the council would think that it impo...

Lord Waddington | 716 c308 (Link to this contribution) I do not have that evidence at my fingertips, but I certainly have the evidence and will certainly l...

Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 716 c308 (Link to this contribution) As a resident of Brighton and Hove, I should be extremely grateful if the noble Lord could present m...

Lord Waddington | 716 c307-8 (Link to this contribution) I should just like to utter a few words of caution. Perhaps the Committee will forgive me if I start...

Baroness Flather | 716 c338-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having made a speech on this subject at Second Reading, I should like to add my voice on t...

Baroness Greengross | 716 c339 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I add my voice in strong support of the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Lester. B...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 716 c339 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is important that a voice from these Benches should be heard in support of this amendme...

Lord Avebury | 716 c331 (Link to this contribution) 5: Clause 4, page 4, line 17, at end insert— "caste;"

Lord Avebury | 716 c331-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have been talking for almost two and a half hours about how we reduce inequalities of o...

Lord Harries of Pentregarth | 716 c333-5 (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, has graciously suggested that I precede him in supporting this amendm...

Earl of Sandwich | 716 c335-6 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, for his expert summary. I apologise that I was n...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c336-8 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to my amendment, Amendment 16, in speaking to Amendment 5, with which it has been grou...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c338 (Link to this contribution) Does descent include factors other than caste?

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c338 (Link to this contribution) Yes, indeed it does. The Jewish example is very good. Jews are a classic example of a group defined ...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c330 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness teases me, but she has misunderstood. I was not suggesting that at all; I was sug...

Baroness Warsi | 716 c331 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful that the noble Lord, Lord Lester, has accepted that he has changed his mind—that is po...

Lord Tebbit | 716 c325 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has just said that this is what the Government have been doing for the past 12 ye...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 716 c325-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I fundamentally disagree with the noble Lord. I think that many things in our society—many...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 716 c329 (Link to this contribution) As I explained earlier, this Bill is about equality of opportunity as well as opportunity of outcome...

Lord Elton | 716 c326 (Link to this contribution) The body that the Minister was quoting said that the Bill would lead organisations to tackle the roo...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 716 c326-9 (Link to this contribution) I was not ignoring the noble Lord’s question, which I shall come to shortly. We believe that it is i...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 716 c322-5 (Link to this contribution) This has been an extraordinary discussion and a very good one. It is clear that most of us agree tha...

Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 716 c321 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I spoke about this aspect of the Bill at Second Reading. I conceded then—as other lawyers ...

Lord Ouseley | 716 c321-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is more than 100 minutes since the noble Baroness, Lady Warsi, invited the Minister to ...

Lord Elton | 716 c322 (Link to this contribution) When the noble Baroness comes to answer, will she give great weight to the question asked by my nobl...

Baroness Northover | 716 c322 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I did not intend to intervene, given the length of time that we have spent discussing this...

Lord Borrie | 716 c320 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was sorry to hear the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, suggest that the clause was...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c320-1 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord agree that the problem is that, unlike in those other statutes, the target duty ...

Lord Borrie | 716 c321 (Link to this contribution) I agree that it is not legally enforceable, in either civil or criminal law, and I am sure that the ...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 716 c319-20 (Link to this contribution) This has been an absolutely fascinating discussion. Listening to people’s histories, I have ranged b...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c319 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the noble and learned Lord agrees with me that not only does Part 1 create no enfor...

Lord McIntosh of Haringey | 716 c317 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, ought to hear me out and think about not just what Michael Young wrote ...

Lord McIntosh of Haringey | 716 c316-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if Michael Young—Lord Young of Dartington—were here now he would be holding his head in hi...

Lord Tebbit | 716 c317 (Link to this contribution) If we are to have equality of outcome, can the noble Lord tell me what the point is of equality of o...

Lord Stevenson of Coddenham | 716 c316 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise for not participating in the Second Reading debate. I intended to do so, but I...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c314-5 (Link to this contribution) I am not a Minister of the Crown. I am sure the Leader of the House will be able to answer that ques...

Lord Morris of Handsworth | 716 c315-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall refrain from entering the debate about good schools and bad schools. Mine was at n...

Lord Ouseley | 716 c367-8 (Link to this contribution) The purpose of this new clause is to put protection based on association or perception into the Bill...

Lord Ouseley | 716 c367 (Link to this contribution) 7: After Clause 4, insert the following new Clause— "Association and perception (1) Reference to a p...

Baroness Warsi | 716 c369-71 (Link to this contribution) I have three amendments in this group: Amendment 24, which adds protection for those who are perceiv...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 716 c368-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Ouseley, and in so doing speak to my Amendment 21A, which i...

Baroness Wilkins | 716 c371 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support this amendment. It seems to offer very helpful clarification of the new rights th...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c371-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Government have done something splendid in moving beyond the old discrimination law. O...

Lord Avebury | 716 c351 (Link to this contribution) In that case, I have great pleasure in withdrawing the amendment. Amendment 6 withdrawn. Clause 4 ...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c351 (Link to this contribution) I am certainly very happy to take that suggestion forward.

Lord Avebury | 716 c348 (Link to this contribution) 6: Clause 4, page 4, line 17, at end insert— "being a Scottish Gypsy Traveller;"

Baroness Thornton | 716 c348 (Link to this contribution) The consultation on this Bill took place in the latter half of 2007. At that time, we did not receiv...

Lord Avebury | 716 c351 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for those reassurances. I will make one additional request o...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c349-51 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendments 6, 19, 30, 41, 50 and 53 all seek explicitly to list being a Scottish Gypsy Tra...

Lord Harries of Pentregarth | 716 c349 (Link to this contribution) For the reasons given by the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, I support the amendment. Clearly, there is a ...

Lord Avebury | 716 c348-9 (Link to this contribution) We come now to the question of Scottish Gypsy Travellers. I do not expect that there will be quite a...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c347 (Link to this contribution) That is part of the consideration and thinking that is going on and the wider discussion going on wi...

Baroness Warsi | 716 c348 (Link to this contribution) Much has been made of the need for further research and evidence. The Minister referred to the lack ...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c344-7 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is much too much of an experienced lawyer to say that one or two words in a Bill are ...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c344 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt but I simply do not understand why research is needed. The Minister has agre...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c347 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as I have said, the Government are in the process of commissioning further research as rec...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c347 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for that explanation. What it comes to is that the Government accept that one has...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c344 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure what the truth of that is. Who said what to whom and in what order is often a matter o...

Lord Avebury | 716 c344 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the Minister yet again—I know that she is trying to get on with her speech—b...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c344 (Link to this contribution) The reason why I am saying that we are determined to do this is that we will proceed with this resea...

Lord Harries of Pentregarth | 716 c344 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt again. I am glad to hear that strong statement about research if the Governm...

Bishop of Chester | 716 c347 (Link to this contribution) If the research that the Government intend to undertake indicates that there is a problem that requi...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c343-4 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the noble Lady is not suggesting that we should not consult those organisations. They...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c343 (Link to this contribution) Yes. However, as I hope to explain, that is already covered by other parts of the Bill. Furthermore...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c343 (Link to this contribution) Leaving aside evidence and dealing only with principle, suppose there is one case of an employer dis...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c342 (Link to this contribution) I accept the noble and right reverend Lord’s point that this is distressing and I hope that I may be...

Lord Harries of Pentregarth | 716 c342 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister accept that what is felt to be intrusive questioning is distressing for the affect...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c341-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, these amendments are all linked. Amendment 5 seeks to add caste to the list of protected c...

Baroness Warsi | 716 c340-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have heard a full and interesting speech from the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, and very in...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c340 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Lester, is thought to be appropriate, it would be...

Baroness Flather | 716 c343 (Link to this contribution) We keep coming back to the Hindu Forum and the Hindu Council, which are formed by caste Hindus—the t...

Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 716 c309 (Link to this contribution) I was not intervening. I thought that the noble Lord had concluded. If he has concluded, perhaps I m...

Lord Waddington | 716 c309 (Link to this contribution) I think that I had better reply to my noble friend first. Certainly, if such a clause was in a Bill,...

Earl of Onslow | 716 c309 (Link to this contribution) I was actually too stupid to go to university, but I was very privileged to go to Eton. Every time I...

Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 716 c309 (Link to this contribution) I give way briefly.

Lord Tebbit | 716 c310 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord enjoyed going to university; that was denied to me for economic reasons. However, whe...

Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 716 c310 (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl was no doubt fortunate in his circumstances. But to hear grammar schools defended on ...

Lord Waddington | 716 c309 (Link to this contribution) No, I have not. I am sorry, but I will conclude in only a moment. At this time of all times, when t...

Earl of Onslow | 716 c309 (Link to this contribution) I must intervene.

Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 716 c309 (Link to this contribution) It would be a travesty if the ambition of equality of outcome, or, indeed, equality of opportunity, ...

Baroness Greengross | 716 c311 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I ask noble Lords to support Clause 1. I declare an interest as a member of the Equality a...

Baroness Whitaker | 716 c310-1 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for doing the wrong thing in my haste to respond to the question asked by noble Baroness...

Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 716 c310 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord omits to notice that several words in his legislation have been amended, although I s...

Earl of Onslow | 716 c314 (Link to this contribution) I know the noble Lord knows that I have great respect for him, but if it is not justiciable and is n...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c314 (Link to this contribution) I would not give anyone any encouragement to think that that duty could possibly give rise to a succ...

Lord Tebbit | 716 c314 (Link to this contribution) I lack the noble Lord’s legal expertise but subsection (2) states: ""In deciding how to fulfil a dut...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c313-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, after 10 speeches I do not propose to add to the autobiographical material that has been p...

Bishop of Chester | 716 c312-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think it was President Coolidge of the United States who attended church one Sunday and,...

Earl of Onslow | 716 c311-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may add a small amount to this debate. It is worth pointing out that historicall...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c372-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the proposed new clause under Amendment 7 and similarly veined Amendments 21A, 24, 38 and ...

Lord Ouseley | 716 c375 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for her response and those who have contributed in support of the pro...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c375 (Link to this contribution) I shall look into that. Thank you.

Baroness Warsi | 716 c375-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 8 is designed to address how long-term conditions fit into the provisions of the...

Baroness Warsi | 716 c375 (Link to this contribution) 8: Schedule 1, page 129, line 16, at end insert— "( ) Without prejudice to the operation of sub-para...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c377-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment would make an addition to the provisions in Schedule 1 for some people who ...

Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 716 c381 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I fully understand the sentiment with which this amendment has been moved. I listened care...

Bishop of Chichester | 716 c378-81 (Link to this contribution) I move this amendment in the name of my right reverend friend the Bishop of Chester, who apologises ...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c383-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that explanation. I still find it difficult to understand how this is a process. I...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c383 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment would mean that transsexual people would have protection from discriminatio...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c382-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, arising out of this amendment, I would like to know what the Government intend by the refe...

Bishop of Chichester | 716 c378 (Link to this contribution) 10: Clause 7, page 5, line 15, at end insert "under medical supervision"

Baroness Warsi | 716 c378 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her response. This was a probing amendment, and at this stage I am content ...

Bishop of Chichester | 716 c385 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister and to all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. F...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c385 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Lester, and I have explained that we are attempting to protect people who are u...

Baroness Coussins | 716 c386 (Link to this contribution) 11: Clause 8, page 5, line 27, leave out "marriage" and insert "marital status"

Baroness Thornton | 716 c384 (Link to this contribution) The point I was making is that that is the range of things that could happen for a transsexual perso...

Baroness O'Cathain | 716 c384-5 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may pursue this. I promise that it will not be for long. We received a document from the E...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c384 (Link to this contribution) Would I be right in saying that "process" refers to the course of conduct that leads someone who is ...

Baroness O'Cathain | 716 c384 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask for clarification. I thank the Minister for giving way. The first thing that she s...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c384 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has explained it much better than I did. That is exactly the point that I was trying ...

Baroness Coussins | 716 c391-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her response and other noble Lords who have spoken. Clearly I am disappoint...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 716 c391 (Link to this contribution) I listened with interest to those comments. It would seem that those are excellent employers and the...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c391 (Link to this contribution) Has the noble Baroness any comment on the equal opportunities policy in relation to employment in th...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c389 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief. I personally support the amendment, provided that it is confined to employment. Tr...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 716 c388 (Link to this contribution) I very much support the amendment tabled by my noble friend Lady Coussins. Indeed, I thought that I ...

Baroness Morris of Bolton | 716 c388 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, given that this is the first time I have spoken in Committee and the wide-ranging nature o...

Baroness Coussins | 716 c386-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, all the amendments in my name in this group are on the same small and specific point. They...

Lord Waddington | 716 c309 (Link to this contribution) Certainly, if that was in the Bill, people would know what the Bill meant.

Baroness Warsi | 716 c329-30 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for a long response. I also thank all noble Lords from across the Hou...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c319 (Link to this contribution) My view, for what it is worth, is that, as presently drafted, it would be very difficult indeed to m...

Lord Low of Dalston | 716 c371 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support these amendments, particularly as they relate to disability. The Bill makes it possi...

Lord Avebury | 716 c348 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would accept that the Government were moving as fast as they could if it had not been fo...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c375 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may make a practical suggestion. I know it is the first day in Committee and we are far fr...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 716 c381-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree with everything that the noble Baroness, Lady Gould, has just said. I represented ...

Lord Tebbit | 716 c329 (Link to this contribution) I thought that I had made it clear that if there is equality of outcome, there is no point in having...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c317-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall say a word or two about the drafting of the clause and what it really seems to be ...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c372 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should possibly declare an interest as vice-president of the Princess Royal Trust for Ca...

Baroness Thornton | 716 c384 (Link to this contribution) The point that is being made in the Bill is that discrimination takes place against people who are t...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 716 c389-91 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendments 11 to 15 would add marital status, including those who are unmarried, widowed o...

Subjects

Disability

Conditions of employment

Civil partnerships

Depressive illnesses

Employment

Equality

Gender

Harassment

Discrimination

Ethnic groups

Public sector

Minority groups

Racial discrimination

Married people

Scotland

Religion

Travellers

Widowed people

Single people

International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

Hinduism

Dalits

Transgender people

Legislation

Equality Bill 2008-09 to 2009-10

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk