Equality Bill

I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, for his expert summary. I apologise that I was not present at Second Reading and realise that that gives me no excuse to go on at length. This raises an issue that is fundamental to the discussion we have had in the past two hours. I have worked for years with organisations concerned with caste, such as Christian Aid and Anti-Slavery International. I know the dalit organisations that work alongside these outcaste organisations. I have recently become a patron of the Dalit Solidarity Network. I have lived in India and I am familiar with the facts there but, until recently, I had not appreciated the extent to which the caste system has been imported into this country. I have carefully read the Solicitor-General's reply in the summer to the Public Bill Committee, and I fully understand that there was insufficient evidence of discrimination from the earlier scoping survey. However, in that debate she said that, ""it is socially divisive to have legislation against something that is not happening and is needed by no one".—[Official Report, Commons, Equality Bill Committee, 11/6/09; col. 179.]" At that time, the Government seemed to have set their face against this, which seems extraordinary. Since then, as my noble and right reverend friend Lord Harries pointed out and as was pointed out at Second Reading, the Anti Caste Discrimination Alliance, which represents 23 organisations, has published the report Hidden Apartheid. It contains new evidence of discrimination. My noble and right reverend friend has already given examples. The Minister knows that dalits form a very high proportion of Indians, both Hindu and Sikh, in this country, and they are still regarded as outcasts many years after they have left India. In other words, there are some who are outside the caste system altogether. There can be no doubt that members of such a group are, or may be, victims of discrimination. I do not think the Leader of the House gave a very satisfactory answer to my noble and right reverend friend at Second Reading when she said that much of the new evidence was still anecdotal. Some of it is, but what she said implies that most of it is not. Just now, she said that drawing on the available evidence is what is important in the Bill. She said that a research project had to be undertaken by the Equality and Human Rights Commission on caste discrimination—the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, mentioned this—but nothing has happened since Second Reading as far as we can tell. We are told that the Government are in discussion with the commission, and we would like to know the position. More research will be needed, but the principle must be in the Bill first. My noble friend Lord Ouseley said earlier that if there are inequalities in our society, we must be rid of them, and we must be careful who gives us the information. My noble and right reverend friend Lord Harries and the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, have already said that the Hindu bodies do not necessarily speak for the dalit community, but ACDA will certainly guide the government statisticians. I hope that the Minister does not underestimate the number of organisations involved in this campaign, many of which were demonstrating this morning. Whatever the Ambedkar reforms have achieved in India and south Asia, we know that an ancient system of caste is not going to abolished—thousands of campaigners are still working on that in India—but to find it transposed into British society is something else. Quite simply, it is morally wrong, and it cannot be allowed to happen if it is shown to lead to discrimination in our society.