Parliamentary search - Welfare Reform Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

712 c95-154GC

Session

2008-09

Department

Department for Work and Pensions

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Welfare Reform Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 32-EN also published.
Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c141GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister continues, perhaps I may tell him very firmly that the Front Bench in the Conser...

Lord Pannick | 712 c144-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his full reply. He told us that it is not a matter of punishment, ...

Show all contributions (126)

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c145GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord will permit me, the key issue here, whatever description we put on it—he said that...

Lord Pannick | 712 c145GC (Link to this contribution) I am obliged to the noble Lord. I am not disputing that the relevant people have brought it upon the...

Lord Haskel | 712 c154GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Tuesday at 3.30 pm.

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c129GC (Link to this contribution) At last it is becoming clearer in, as I said earlier, my somewhat confused mind. I am extremely grat...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c129GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 37: The appropriate authority by which regulations under section 33 are made Amendment 170 ...

Lord Goodlad | 712 c137-8GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments are tabled in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and were unanimously ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c135-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the noble Lord’s support for the statement. I shall perhaps leave aside the extent...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c127-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, for giving me the opportunity to explain why the...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c111-3GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment is modelled on a subsection of the Health Bill that permits direct payments for health...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 712 c103GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend, as I do the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, for his intervention, which I we...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c108GC (Link to this contribution) I start by thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell, for moving this amendment, her strong leaders...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c108GC (Link to this contribution) What about accountants?

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c98GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure we can make available the type of notifications that exist under the current sanctions reg...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c96-8GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for this amendment. It gives me the opportunity, I hope, to clarify the m...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 712 c95GC (Link to this contribution) I remind the Committee that if there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committe...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c100-1GC (Link to this contribution) I offer very warm support from these Benches for this proposal, moved so ably by the noble Baroness,...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 712 c99-100GC (Link to this contribution) I am indebted to the Royal British Legion for the text of this amendment and for the accompanying br...

Lord Pannick | 712 c138-9GC (Link to this contribution) I strongly support what has been said by the noble Lord, Lord Goodlad. I apologise to him and to nob...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c145GC (Link to this contribution) This happens at the end of quite a long process when all the other mechanisms to collect money have ...

Lord Goodlad | 712 c146GC (Link to this contribution) To follow what the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, said, I am grateful to the Minister for his customary c...

Lord Goodlad | 712 c147GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister echoes what I have just said: the Bill proposes an administrative procedure costing a v...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c147GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 43: Report on operation of driving licences amendments Amendment 175 175: Clause 43, page 4...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c147-8GC (Link to this contribution) This is quite a big group of amendments, including Amendments 175, 175A, 176, 177, 178, 178ZA, 178ZB...

Lord Northbourne | 712 c145GC (Link to this contribution) The point of my intervention is that this does not seem to be at all different from money that I owe...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c154GC (Link to this contribution) But does that go on the register?

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c149GC (Link to this contribution) No, I am afraid not. I am reminded of a line from "Oklahoma", sung by the rather flighty girlfriend ...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c149-51GC (Link to this contribution) Schedule 6, introduced by Clause 46, proposes compulsory joint birth registration for unmarried pare...

Lord Goodlad | 712 c148GC (Link to this contribution) I support the sentiments expressed by my noble friend Lord Skelmersdale. The Select Committee, in pa...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c154GC (Link to this contribution) Things are becoming a little clearer. I am glad that I asked the question because I am not sure that...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c130-1GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments 171 to 174 171: Clause 37, page 42, line 26, at end insert— "(c) in relation to provisio...

Lord Goodlad | 712 c137GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 42: Disqualification for holding etc. driving licence or travel authorisation Amendment 174A...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c137GC (Link to this contribution) I can certainly bring that issue to the attention of the commission.

Lord Northbourne | 712 c137GC (Link to this contribution) After such a deluge of good news, I would have given anything to the noble Lord. I fully accept the ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c133-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, for this amendment. With the leave of the Committee, perha...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c132-3GC (Link to this contribution) During the past four weeks, and indeed at Second Reading, I felt the need to speak several times abo...

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 712 c118-20GC (Link to this contribution) This is probably one of my favourite amendments. I have waxed lyrical on this subject for 18 months....

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 712 c118GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 164 164: Clause 33, page 39, line 11, leave out from "particular," to end of line 22 and ...

Baroness Wilkins | 712 c121GC (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the amendments, which seek to ensure that the radical policy of a right to contro...

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 712 c125GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Thomas and Lady Wilkins, and the noble Lords, Lord Skelmersdale a...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c128GC (Link to this contribution) The longer these debates go on, the more confused I am becoming. Clause 31(5) specifically excludes ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c111GC (Link to this contribution) I was hoping that the noble Baroness was going to say that we could go to the Terrace.

Baroness Turner of Camden | 712 c114-5GC (Link to this contribution) I support everything that has just been said. Speaking from my own experience, a number of years ago...

Lord Northbourne | 712 c113GC (Link to this contribution) I was not intending to intervene in this debate, but the noble Baroness talked about the complicatio...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 712 c115GC (Link to this contribution) It’s the thought that counts, Roger.

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c116-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for this amendment and all noble Lords who have spoken. We have had some ...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c117-8GC (Link to this contribution) I thank all Members of the Grand Committee who have spoken and supported the amendment. Some very gr...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c115GC (Link to this contribution) I second the view of the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell. Of course I agree that access to peer suppor...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c118GC (Link to this contribution) We started a consultation process around the right to control a couple of weeks ago. Where we go wit...

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 712 c103GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 31: Relevant services Amendment 162 162: Clause 31, page 38, line 9, leave out subsections ...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c103GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot tell the noble Lord precisely what discussions have gone on thus far, but it is clear that ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c110GC (Link to this contribution) I do not have a work-in-progress report from the Law Commission. As I said, the work is underway and...

Countess of Mar | 712 c101GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, give the amendment my warm support. Most of these people will not be in the income tax brack...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c98GC (Link to this contribution) I do not have the document in front of me, but I believe that that is focused on the progression-to-...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c98-9GC (Link to this contribution) There is a case for saying that the first sanction across all regimes should be a warning letter. Th...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c98GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the support for the amendment around the Grand Committee. I am a bit confused, how...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c139GC (Link to this contribution) I have very little to add to what the noble Lords, Lord Goodlad and Lord Pannick, have said, except ...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c139-41GC (Link to this contribution) Many Members of this Committee will remember the Child Maintenance and Other Payments Bill of 2007 v...

Baroness Meacher | 712 c146GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that I may be forgiven for intervening but I am very impressed by the arguments that have bee...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c147GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting the noble Lord again. To pick up on one point raised by the noble Baron...

Baroness Crawley | 712 c154GC (Link to this contribution) No, it is in order to locate the father. Secondly, the registrar, as I understand it, has to take th...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c149GC (Link to this contribution) Schedule 6: Registration of births Amendment 178ZBA 178ZBA: Schedule 6, page 93, leave out line 10...

Baroness Crawley | 712 c151-3GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, for putting forward his amendments. I understand their pr...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c148-9GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, for the amendments, whose effect would be to make the dis...

Baroness Crawley | 712 c154GC (Link to this contribution) I should be delighted to talk quietly later and, if the noble Lord would wish it, to write to him. T...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c154GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that; I am not worried about that. I am worried about a situation where the name of the...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c130GC (Link to this contribution) All social security law applies across the whole of the United Kingdom, even though individual bits ...

Lord Northbourne | 712 c131GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 174ZA 174ZA: Before Clause 42, insert the following new Clause— "Parental responsibility ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c129GC (Link to this contribution) I am happy to be pinned down on this—or I think I am. The Government have committed to include in tr...

Lord Northbourne | 712 c137GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 174ZA withdrawn.

Lord Northbourne | 712 c131-2GC (Link to this contribution) We now turn to the aspects of the Bill that relate to child maintenance. Part 3 is about improving t...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c121-2GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Wilkins, is considerably braver than I would dare to be when referring to h...

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 712 c121GC (Link to this contribution) Belligerent?

Lord Geddes | 712 c125-6GC (Link to this contribution) It has been suggested that this might be a convenient moment to break for 15 minutes. The Committee ...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 712 c127GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment in one respect. I said in a debate on a previous amendment, referring to my ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c128-9GC (Link to this contribution) The structure of the Bill sets out the types of services and funding streams that would be envisaged...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c111GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 33: Power to make provision enabling exercise of greater choice and control Amendment 163 1...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 712 c111GC (Link to this contribution) It has been suggested that, in view of the temperature, it might be for the convenience of noble Lor...

Baroness Wilkins | 712 c113GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, in this amendment. I absolutely agree with her that direc...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c115-6GC (Link to this contribution) Thank you. They may well have concerns about employing their own staff, or not be aware of exactly w...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c118GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister very much for that offer, and I shall examine exactly what he said in his earli...

Lord Geddes | 712 c118GC (Link to this contribution) The next amendment is Amendment 164, to be moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell of Surbiton.

Baroness Turner of Camden | 712 c102GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend the Minister for that response and noble Lords for contributing to the debat...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c101-2GC (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my noble friend Lady Turner on moving this amendment. She may have come close to unif...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c102-3GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may quickly intervene before the noble Baroness withdraws the amendment. The Minister said...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c105GC (Link to this contribution) I am very glad to be able to support the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell, in this amendment, and final...

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 712 c103-5GC (Link to this contribution) Before I speak to the amendment, I should inform the Committee that, due to weather conditions and m...

Countess of Mar | 712 c105-6GC (Link to this contribution) The Equality and Human Rights Commission has written to me asking me to support these amendments, wh...

Baroness Wilkins | 712 c106GC (Link to this contribution) Speaking for myself, I strongly support this amendment. It removes the exclusion of community care s...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c108-10GC (Link to this contribution) Accountants are much more objective. In 2005, the Government made public their commitment to work t...

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 712 c110-1GC (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have supported the amendment: the noble Countess, Lady Mar, the noble Ba...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c95-6GC (Link to this contribution) My view is and has always been that we are dealing with sanctions for violent conduct—in other words...

Countess of Mar | 712 c96GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, in her amendment. We must be not only fair but seen...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c141GC (Link to this contribution) I start by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Goodlad, for this amendment. I think that the debate we are...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c141-4GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that that is right. Amendments 174A and 174C to 174F remove from the commission the power ...

Lord Northbourne | 712 c145GC (Link to this contribution) Why is this then not a simple matter of debt collection?

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c146GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord finally withdraws the amendment, I want to ensure that I have clearly on the r...

Lord Goodlad | 712 c146-7GC (Link to this contribution) I believe the noble Baroness to be absolutely correct. I have not developed the point because it wou...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c153-4GC (Link to this contribution) I suppose that in the spirit of the past eight days that was a conflated response to a conflated set...

Baroness Crawley | 712 c154GC (Link to this contribution) I underline two points. First, yes, the registrar can write to the last known address; it does not h...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c154GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Tuesday at 3.30 pm.

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c130GC (Link to this contribution) Yes. The amendment reflects the difference in the state of devolution between Scotland and Wales. Le...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c129GC (Link to this contribution) At last it is becoming clearer in my confused mind, to which I referred earlier. I suspect that Amen...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c130GC (Link to this contribution) I shall also speak to the other government amendments in the group. Since introducing the Bill my mi...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c129GC (Link to this contribution) I know, because we were told earlier, that the Minister does not like being pinned down, but can he ...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c135GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Minister is about to turn to this particular amendment, but every Member of the C...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c120-1GC (Link to this contribution) It is very disappointing that the language of the Bill does not appear to reflect the policy intende...

Baroness Wilkins | 712 c121GC (Link to this contribution) We cannot repeat this pattern under a right to control. It must be different. I know that much of t...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c124-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether the Minister was choosing his words particularly carefully when he said, "I am...

Lord Northbourne | 712 c122GC (Link to this contribution) Without having any great expertise on this particular issue, the basic issue is whether the services...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c122-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for the amendment. I am pleased that it is her favourite as it is the one...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 712 c125GC (Link to this contribution) We, in this context, are the Government. As in all of these things, I am very happy to have a shared...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c126GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 167 167: Clause 34, page 40, line 34, leave out subsection (3)

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c126GC (Link to this contribution) Having had several interesting and instructive debates about the merits of direct control, the benef...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c127GC (Link to this contribution) Is the phrase "in all the circumstances" going to be spelt out in regulations?

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 712 c115GC (Link to this contribution) I am not going to hold the Committee up by supporting the amendment again at too great a length, but...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 712 c113-4GC (Link to this contribution) If the Committee will indulge me, I will repeat an incident that happened to me over Easter when I w...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c106-8GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Campbell, started with what I can only describe as a devastating critique o...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c110GC (Link to this contribution) I picked up three things from what the Minister said. First, he spoke of putting people first, and i...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c98GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister pointed out that sanctions already exist in the field of actively seeking work under th...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c95GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 26: Attendance in connection with jobseeker's allowance: sanctions Amendment 158 158: Claus...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 712 c95GC (Link to this contribution) In moving the amendment, I am well aware that the Minister has said in terms that the first sanction...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c100GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, and I support her in this endeavour—rare though th...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 712 c99GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 161A 161A: After Clause 28, insert the following new Clause— "Income-related benefits In ...

Lord Skelmersdale | 712 c98GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful.

Subjects

Council tax benefits

Disability

Child support

Children

Disclosure of information

Devolved matters

Curriculum

Community care

Absent parents

Direct payments