Parliamentary search - European Union (Amendment) Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

701 c1356-419

Session

2007-08

Department

Foreign and Commonwealth Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

European Union (Amendment) Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 40-EN also published.
Wednesday, 12 March 2008
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 701 c1416 (Link to this contribution) I wonder if the noble Lord realises that he is in the tradition of, I think it was, Charles James Fo...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 701 c1416 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord. Indeed, I was going to make my own contribution to the Liberal...

Show all contributions (124)

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 701 c1416 (Link to this contribution) I hope the noble Lord regards it as a compliment that the Liberal Democrat Benches are still full. M...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 701 c1415-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 167A: 167A: Clause 8, leave out Clause 8 and insert the following new Clause— ...

Lord Bach | 701 c1419 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the debate on Amendment No. 167A be now adjourned. Moved accordingly, and, on Qu...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 701 c1418-9 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord displays his lack of great experience in international commerce. Also, he may not be ...

Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 701 c1418 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord find it possible to deploy any evidence whatever that the other 26 member count...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 701 c1418 (Link to this contribution) It is true that Norway is a member of the European economic area and therefore has to follow the unf...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 701 c1417-8 (Link to this contribution) Should not the noble Lord examine a little more carefully the relationship between Norway and the Eu...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 701 c1417 (Link to this contribution) No doubt that it is a phenomenon with which the noble Lord is familiar. That leaves us with the Con...

Lord Bach | 701 c1419 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. In moving that Motion, I suggest that the Committee stag...

Lord Howell of Guildford | 701 c1414-5 (Link to this contribution) I think not. As the noble Lord will understand, Switzerland has grown up as a special kind of entity...

Lord Howell of Guildford | 701 c1412-4 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to follow the noble Baroness’s example in being reasonably brief, and I promise that I s...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 701 c1414 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord go so far as to agree with the emerging policy of the UK Independence Party on ...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 701 c1411 (Link to this contribution) But—

Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 701 c1411-2 (Link to this contribution) I have been extremely good in giving way to the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, sometimes to th...

Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 701 c1411 (Link to this contribution) It was A4, not foolscap. But no, it would not be of benefit. The noble Lord can find them; I am sure...

Lord Howell of Guildford | 701 c1395 (Link to this contribution) That is the sort of intervention that lowers the tone of your Lordships’ debates and makes me quite ...

Lord Tomlinson | 701 c1395 (Link to this contribution) It is not sophistry to argue, as I propose to do, that the reform treaty that we have before us is a...

Lord McNally | 701 c1398 (Link to this contribution) Might the explanation be that John Redwood wrote this?

Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 701 c1398 (Link to this contribution) I should like to elaborate on the words of my noble friend Lord Wallace. No self-respecting Welshman...

Lord Tomlinson | 701 c1396 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord can find a scintilla of evidence that I argued on that basis, I would be grateful ...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 701 c1395 (Link to this contribution) I understand the point that the noble Lord is making, but could he help me with my memory? Was he no...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 701 c1397-8 (Link to this contribution) We on these Benches have one technical problem with this amendment. My noble friend Lord Roberts of ...

Lord Waddington | 701 c1396-7 (Link to this contribution) Today we have a good opportunity to underline the importance and worth of this Chamber. I have alway...

Lord Kinnock | 701 c1387 (Link to this contribution) No, they had a Fortuyn.

Lord Howell of Guildford | 701 c1392-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 162: 162: Clause 8, page 4, line 8, at beginning insert ““Subject to subsectio...

Lord Blackwell | 701 c1388-90 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate and to the Minister for...

Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 701 c1388 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, adds, ““And indistinct views””, but I will leave that to one side. The...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 701 c1388 (Link to this contribution) And indistinct views.

Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 701 c1387-8 (Link to this contribution) I say to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, for whom I have highest regard, as he well knows, that...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 701 c1387 (Link to this contribution) But I am addressing that issue. Why do we need it in this Bill? Because, as I was saying when the no...

Lord Tomlinson | 701 c1387 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord knows that I conceded no such thing as a generality. I conceded a specific party comm...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 701 c1387 (Link to this contribution) I think that we have probably gone as far down that road as is necessary. I want to return to the sp...

Lord Dykes | 701 c1394 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord referred to some of our positions and mentioned William Hague’s involvement with the ...

Lord Blaker | 701 c1405-6 (Link to this contribution) Since the noble Lord, Lord Lester, has referred to the Irish case, I would like to add a brief point...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 701 c1406-7 (Link to this contribution) I found the speech of the right reverend Prelate very timely. He said certain things that have not b...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 701 c1407 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord mentioned me, I would like to ask him a question. He prays in aid and makes much o...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 701 c1407 (Link to this contribution) No, we cannot button down like that. The world about which the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, tells us is...

Lord Willoughby de Broke | 701 c1408-9 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend’s remarks. I welcome the amendment, but it surprises me that the noble Lor...

Lord Selsdon | 701 c1407-8 (Link to this contribution) I did not wish to intervene, but I have spent nearly 40 years listening to schizophrenic pontificati...

Lord Higgins | 701 c1410 (Link to this contribution) The Labour Government have introduced programmes in a way that is totally different from what used t...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 701 c1411 (Link to this contribution) Would it be helpful if the Minister were to write to those who have been involved and send those 50 ...

Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 701 c1410-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that it is completely different, although I accept that it is different. My point is...

Lord Blackwell | 701 c1399-400 (Link to this contribution) We have heard many of these arguments before, with the exception of the Welsh connection, so I will ...

Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 701 c1400-1 (Link to this contribution) I cannot understand why the Government have taken the attitude they have to granting a referendum on...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 701 c1398-9 (Link to this contribution) I thought that the Committee would enjoy that. I support these amendments. From UKIP’s point of view...

Lord Higgins | 701 c1402 (Link to this contribution) It is clear from the manifestos of the major parties that they have no objection in principle to the...

Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 701 c1401-2 (Link to this contribution) We have heard about Wales and I will say a word about Ireland, where I have my holiday home. As ever...

Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 701 c1401 (Link to this contribution) Let me quote some of the countries. There is Germany: "““The substance of the constitution is preser...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 701 c1401 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for giving way, but there are 27 countries in Europe. France starte...

Bishop of Chester | 701 c1404-5 (Link to this contribution) This question has powerful arguments on both sides. I have come narrowly to the view that it would b...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 701 c1403-4 (Link to this contribution) It is always a great pleasure to follow in a debate the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, because...

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 701 c1402-3 (Link to this contribution) I thought that the proposed constitutional treaty was legally unprecedented. It would have legally a...

Lord Goodlad | 701 c1356-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 160A: 160A: After Clause 6, insert the following new Clause— ““Parliamentary c...

Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 701 c1356 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Mov...

Lord Grenfell | 701 c1360 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord. As the noble Lord, Lord Goodlad, mentioned, the noble Baroness the ...

Lord Morris of Aberavon | 701 c1359-60 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Goodlad. He has set out the case for parliamen...

Lord Harrison | 701 c1364-5 (Link to this contribution) It behoves us to pay attention to the noble Lord, Lord Goodlad, when he speaks, not only because of ...

Lord Rowlands | 701 c1360-2 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. Since I was first involved in European Union legislation—it was with the ve...

Lord Roper | 701 c1362-3 (Link to this contribution) This is an important amendment, based on the report from the Constitution Committee, which those of ...

Lord Blackwell | 701 c1363-4 (Link to this contribution) I have two brief points to make in support of the amendment. First, opt-ins are not just a question ...

Lord Waddington | 701 c1384 (Link to this contribution) It would help the Chamber if the noble Lord would confirm if it is still his party’s policy to have ...

Lord McNally | 701 c1384 (Link to this contribution) It is still my party’s policy to have a referendum on the euro—I believe that that is the policy of ...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 701 c1384 (Link to this contribution) There are rumours going round that the noble Lord may not be supporting this amendment because he ha...

Lord McNally | 701 c1384 (Link to this contribution) There we go again—the knave making a trap for fools. There is no deal with the Government. We have s...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 701 c1382 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord. He made the point earlier that the people can throw out a Gove...

Lord Clinton-Davis | 701 c1382-3 (Link to this contribution) All Governments are capable of doing that. We are not confining it to the possibility of Governments...

Lord McNally | 701 c1383-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, for bringing us back to the question at the hea...

Earl of Liverpool | 701 c1384 (Link to this contribution) I rise briefly to support my noble friend Lord Blackwell in this amendment. I brought this up on Sec...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 701 c1384-5 (Link to this contribution) What a fabulous debate this has been. I congratulate my noble friend Lord Blackwell on having initia...

Lord Brittan of Spennithorne | 701 c1385 (Link to this contribution) The answer is both. Bonaparte had many qualities, one of which was to play on the public by manipula...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 701 c1386 (Link to this contribution) I can understand the noble Lord having contempt for the electorate in view of their past decisions.

Lord Kinnock | 701 c1386 (Link to this contribution) As someone who was honoured to stand in several elections and be elected, and as someone who subscri...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 701 c1386 (Link to this contribution) I never until this moment understood how much bureaucrats hated referenda, as the noble Lord does. I...

Lord Kinnock | 701 c1386 (Link to this contribution) I do not hear anyone disputing the right of a people to vote in a referendum when a referendum is pr...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 701 c1385 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for that helpful steer. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay of Chiswick, re...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 701 c1385 (Link to this contribution) No, and that was what worried me, because to describe it as a populist device means that it is of, o...

Lord Brittan of Spennithorne | 701 c1385 (Link to this contribution) It is the difference between a popular and a populist device. A populist device is one in which poli...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 701 c1386 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord takes it in that context, of course I apologise. I was referring to the fact that ...

Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 701 c1386-7 (Link to this contribution) I remind the noble Lord that, at the same time as the referendum in France, there was a referendum i...

Lord Vinson | 701 c1377 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord agree that a manifesto commitment to having a referendum binds the hands of Parl...

Lord Brittan of Spennithorne | 701 c1377 (Link to this contribution) If I wrote the manifesto I would feel bound by it, but mercifully it is many years since I have had ...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 701 c1377 (Link to this contribution) Was Harold Wilson wrong to have a referendum on our entry into the EC?

Lord Brittan of Spennithorne | 701 c1377 (Link to this contribution) I did not want to enter into partisan matters, particularly ones going back so far in history. If my...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 701 c1377-8 (Link to this contribution) In moving the amendment, the noble Lord said it was uncontentious, a point which has not found unive...

Lord Tomlinson | 701 c1379 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord refers to the Maastricht referendum. Can he give us the details of it, because it pas...

Lord Leach of Fairford | 701 c1379 (Link to this contribution) I was referring to the Maastricht referendum in Denmark. An enterprising Danish academic asked 10 qu...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 701 c1379 (Link to this contribution) Invoking the Swiss example is going too far, since Switzerland operates a system of decision by refe...

Lord Leach of Fairford | 701 c1379-80 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for making exactly the point in the context of the Swiss about why referendum...

Lord Kinnock | 701 c1380 (Link to this contribution) First I have a comment and then a question, the comment being that I have sat through most of the pr...

Lord Leach of Fairford | 701 c1380 (Link to this contribution) I am certainly not advocating the daily or weekly use of referendums, but I thought I heard from one...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 701 c1381 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, will he accept that the reason why Dicey, previously an academic au...

Lord Leach of Fairford | 701 c1381 (Link to this contribution) I can only thank the noble Lord very much for the history lesson.

Lord Clinton-Davis | 701 c1380 (Link to this contribution) Is there not an effective sanction in the form of a general election? If, for example, a party misle...

Lord Leach of Fairford | 701 c1381 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention. It could be satisfactory if the election were immediately to pr...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 701 c1382 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord is referring to the Maastricht treaty, on which there was an issue about whether w...

Lord Clinton-Davis | 701 c1382 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is being rather unsubtle, but for very good reasons. We had plenty of opportunities t...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 701 c1381-2 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Lord Blackwell. I am sorry that my noble friend Lord Brittan is not in his...

Lord Clinton-Davis | 701 c1382 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has forgotten the past. He was a member of the Administration who did not resort to r...

Lord Howell of Guildford | 701 c1367-8 (Link to this contribution) This is, or ought to be, a parliamentary matter and not a party matter, so in a way I hesitate to ta...

Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 701 c1367 (Link to this contribution) I am right. The view of the Government is that they should make the decision after discussion in the...

Lord Grenfell | 701 c1368 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should clarify the point. When I was talking about more time I was not talking about month...

Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 701 c1367 (Link to this contribution) I—

Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 701 c1367 (Link to this contribution) Let me continue. Although there should obviously be discussion in the various committees—the Constit...

Lord Howell of Guildford | 701 c1366 (Link to this contribution) This is of course a—

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 701 c1365-6 (Link to this contribution) I have some history in this area, having been chair of the relevant sub-committee of the EU Committe...

Lord Brittan of Spennithorne | 701 c1376-7 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend said one thing about which I was a little surprised in his opening remarks. I have a...

Lord Tomlinson | 701 c1375-6 (Link to this contribution) We are beginning to make progress towards a consensus. I agree fairly substantially with the noble L...

Lord Blackwell | 701 c1374-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 160B: 160B: Before Clause 7, insert the following new Clause— ““Referendum req...

Lord Goodlad | 701 c1373-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness the Leader of the House for her speech and for her undertaking that the G...

Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 701 c1373 (Link to this contribution) I intend to. I had not sat down. Had I sat down, the noble Lord would be have been correct to preven...

Lord Howell of Guildford | 701 c1372-3 (Link to this contribution) I hope the Minister will forgive me for interrupting because she is trying to cover this in great de...

Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 701 c1369-72 (Link to this contribution) This has been an extremely interesting debate on an area which, I agree with noble Lords, is of grea...

Lord Howell of Guildford | 701 c1368-9 (Link to this contribution) ““As far as it goes””, would be my answer to the noble Baroness. It is my passion that we should mak...

Baroness Quin | 701 c1368 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. Will he therefore welcome the fact that in the treat...

Lord Howell of Guildford | 701 c1368 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to hear that that is the idea. But it would be good to hear rather more about this extr...

Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 701 c1398 (Link to this contribution) Speaking as a member of the UK Independence Party—

Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 701 c1409-10 (Link to this contribution) This has been an extremely interesting debate. I feared that there would be nothing new, as we have ...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 701 c1385-6 (Link to this contribution) I hate to give a piece of anecdotal evidence to the noble Lord, but I was actually in France at the ...

Lord Leach of Fairford | 701 c1378-9 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Tomlinson, is surely right that the amendment should be unnecessary. We can all...

Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 701 c1366 (Link to this contribution) I—

Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 701 c1366 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord speaks for the Opposition, let me make one point. I am pleased that this amend...

Lord Jopling | 701 c1365 (Link to this contribution) I have recently taken an interest in the matter of opt-ins and opt-outs as a member of both the Euro...

Subjects

Constitutional and administrative law

EU law

European Union

European communities

Economic and monetary union

Referendums

Parliamentary scrutiny

Sovereignty

Treaty of Lisbon

Legislation

European Union (Amendment) Bill 2007-08

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk