European Union (Amendment) Bill

I have been extremely good in giving way to the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, sometimes to the chagrin of other Members of the Committee. There is particularly, as the noble Lord knows, a lot of chagrin behind me. This is not the moment. I am happy to give way a little later, but let me get on. I will not be long. The Government believe, for the reasons that I have given, that the treaty is fundamentally different. I understand why noble Lords will not agree with that politically. There are those who believe that we should not have a referendum whatever happens, which is a perfectly reasonable position to hold. There are those who believe that anything that has the words ““European Union”” attached to it should in any event be opposed and that Britain should be ““liberated””, which I think is the word that the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, would use. There are those who genuinely think that the treaties are the same. Sometimes there may be a bit of political expediency lurking in the undergrowth. Those are the different reasons. I do not think that I am standing here and convincing anybody, because we have been debating the undercurrent of this for weeks. I have a suspicion that noble Lords are pretty clear in their own minds. The same is true of referendums. Some people think that they are a good idea, because the people get to choose in a particular way and get the chance to debate, as do political parties. There are those who think that referendums are a bad idea, because making these decisions should be the role of democratically elected representatives in fulfilling their obligations to the people who put them here and who pay them to fulfil that role. There are also those who say that is difficult to have in a referendum a question that makes sense. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, spoke about his next-door neighbour in France, who found it difficult to read through such a lengthy and complicated document and make up his mind without the benefit of much more information. That is reasonable, too. A little bit of political expediency is in there, too, because it is sometimes useful to want a referendum for other reasons. The position of the Government is clear; we know exactly where they stand. We know exactly where the Liberal Democrats stand. I am still a little confused about where the Conservative Party will be post-ratification. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, will kill off once and for all—because it has been lurking in the undergrowth—the question whether the Conservative Party would accept ratification, because many of its members have a long history and tradition of support for and work in the European Union and I pay tribute to them. I will leave that for the noble Lord to address. The amendment should be withdrawn. We have before us an important treaty that will help 27 member states to collaborate and work more effectively in the European Union. More important, it is time that we moved to ratify this treaty so that we can get on with the business of Europe, where there is much to do to support our citizens.