UK Parliament / Open data

European Union (Amendment) Bill

Debate on bills and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Tuesday, 4 March 2008, in the House of Commons.
European Union (Amendment) Bill. Committee stage tenth day. Motion for an instruction on the Bill that it have power to make provision in the Bill for the holding of a referendum on the UKs continued membership of the European Union. Negatived on division (68 votes to 471). Amendment 286 negatived on division (57 votes to 329). Amendment 47 negatived on division (245 to 305). Amendment 20 negatived on division (240 votes to 307). Clauses 6 and 7 agreed to on division (301 votes to 238).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
472 c1598-716, (corrigendum) 473 c126 
Session
2007-08
Department
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
European Union (Amendment) Bill. (Explanatory note Bill 48-EN published).
Monday, 17 December 2007
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Ed Davey | 472 c1598 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That it be an Instruction to the Committee on the European Union (Amendment) Bill tha...
Speaker | 472 c1598 (Link to this contribution) I have selected the motion for an instruction on the European Union (Amendment) Bill, in the name of...

Show all contributions (318)
Ed Davey | 472 c1598 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman could not be more wrong. Let him debate that matter tomorrow. I and my colleagues...
Philip Davies | 472 c1598 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows as well as most people in the House what my view is on the European Union. ...
Ed Davey | 472 c1598 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in a moment. Let us be clear what the instruction is not about. It is not about th...
Speaker | 472 c1599 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady would help the Chair if she did not make a point of order like that.
Ed Davey | 472 c1599 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Lord Robathan | 472 c1599 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr. Davey) give way?
John Redwood | 472 c1599 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Ed Davey | 472 c1599 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman had attended all our debates, he would know that we do not believe that the co...
Speaker | 472 c1599 (Link to this contribution) Order. Every hon. Member shows integrity, so the hon. Gentleman should not speak like that.
Lord Robathan | 472 c1599 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman confirm that he and his party stood on a manifesto commitment to have a refer...
David Leslie Taylor | 472 c1600 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal policy on the referendum is apparently encapsulated in early-day motion 1083, which was ...
Ed Davey | 472 c1599-600 (Link to this contribution) If the right hon. Gentleman looks at our amendments, he will see that they are absolutely clear. The...
John Redwood | 472 c1599 (Link to this contribution) With the hon. Gentleman's in-out referendum now, would it be in, with or without the Lisbon treaty a...
Ed Davey | 472 c1599 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some progress, so I shall give way to the right hon. Gentleman later. Hon. Members m...
Ed Davey | 472 c1600 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely not. The hon. Gentleman should vote for the instruction, so that he can challenge us in d...
Ed Davey | 472 c1600 (Link to this contribution) We believe that it amounts to the same thing. If the right hon. Gentleman had listened to my right h...
Iain Duncan Smith | 472 c1600 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman clarify a simple point? When the constitutional treaty, as he said, was arou...
Ed Davey | 472 c1601 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. Both the Prime Minister and the then leader of the Liberal Democrats talked in exactly those...
Adrian Sanders | 472 c1601 (Link to this contribution) If there had been a vote on the constitution, it would have been a vote against a rulebook. How can ...
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 472 c1601-2 (Link to this contribution) If we are committed to democracy, we can disagree with the rulebook while remaining committed to the...
Ed Davey | 472 c1601 (Link to this contribution) I was grateful for the hon. Gentleman's support on 14 November, when he and five other Conservative ...
Peter Bone | 472 c1600 (Link to this contribution) I recollect that very amendment to the Gracious Speech, because I supported it and voted for it. We ...
Ed Davey | 472 c1601 (Link to this contribution) The message is clearly not getting through, which is yet another reason why we should have the debat...
Bernard Jenkin | 472 c1601 (Link to this contribution) In response to my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr. Duncan Smith), ...
Ed Davey | 472 c1602 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is entitled to her view, but I ask her to back our instruction to allow us to have a f...
Ed Davey | 472 c1602 (Link to this contribution) It will appear to people outside the House that the other parties are afraid of open, public debate....
Speaker | 472 c1602 (Link to this contribution) Order. Hon. Members must allow the hon. Gentleman to speak.
Speaker | 472 c1602 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman has indicated that he will not give way.
James Clappison | 472 c1619 (Link to this contribution) Does not my right hon. Friend's amendment touch on the problem? Are not the passerelle clauses a rec...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c1618 (Link to this contribution) Order. That is certainly taking us outside the scope of the amendments and getting us ever closer to...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1618-9 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, Sir Alan. I shall observe in response only that the European Union has altered out of all re...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1618 (Link to this contribution) I will, of course, observe your strictures, Sir Alan, but it is necessary to dwell briefly on the qu...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1614 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 48, page 2, line 39, leave out subsection (1) and insert—
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c1615 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 286, page 2, line 39, at be...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1617 (Link to this contribution) It is a relief to return to the Bill after that excursion into the Liberal Democrats' embarrassment,...
Mark Harper | 472 c1617 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend mentioned that when countries vote no in referendums, they are often asked to t...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c1617-8 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am sorry to interrupt, but I am at present having some difficulty in seeing these amendment...
Speaker | 472 c1609 (Link to this contribution) Order. Let the hon. Gentleman speak.
Bob Russell | 472 c1610 (Link to this contribution) You're the president of the club.
Tony Cunningham | 472 c1610 (Link to this contribution) rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put. Question, That the Question be...
Lord Cormack | 472 c1610 (Link to this contribution) I would certainly not wish to be a president of any club that that gentleman could join. [Hon. Membe...
Ian Davidson | 472 c1609 (Link to this contribution) I wish to clarify the implications of accepting the instruction, because I am anxious if I vote for ...
Simon Hughes | 472 c1609 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Ian Davidson | 472 c1609 (Link to this contribution) Do I take it that the Liberal position is to have a vote on in or out, but vote against someone like...
Speaker | 472 c1609 (Link to this contribution) Order. We should be debating the instruction before us.
Speaker | 472 c1609 (Link to this contribution) Order. I understand that the hon. Gentleman has finished his speech.
Lord Cormack | 472 c1609 (Link to this contribution) I will be very brief. It seems to me that this is an extraordinary example of sanctimonious chicaner...
Simon Hughes | 472 c1609 (Link to this contribution) I will give the hon. Gentleman the answer. We have made it clear that our preferred option is to vot...
Ian Davidson | 472 c1609 (Link to this contribution) What is the Liberal Democrat position on whether there should be two questions in a referendum?
Simon Hughes | 472 c1609 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is wrong in his interpretation of this debate. If the instruction is given, tomor...
Ian Davidson | 472 c1609 (Link to this contribution) I have some sympathy with the Liberal position—[Hon. Members: ““Surely not.] It is not only because ...
Richard Shepherd | 472 c1608 (Link to this contribution) They said that, if this were a vote on—[Hon. Members: ““Give way!””] I have the floor, if the House ...
Chris Huhne | 472 c1608 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I was also extremely grateful that he joined us in th...
Richard Shepherd | 472 c1608 (Link to this contribution) I can only hope that the hon. Gentleman's electors out there heard his shouting. They will hear his ...
Richard Shepherd | 472 c1607 (Link to this contribution) There is a smell of fear over this Chamber this afternoon. We know perfectly well what this is about...
Richard Shepherd | 472 c1607-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must forgive me—I quite understand the difficulty of his position. That is why—[H...
William Cash | 472 c1606 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that it would not be sensible to promote a referendum to stay in wit...
George Howarth | 472 c1606 (Link to this contribution) I want to make three brief points. First, I was filled with horror at the prospect of my hon. Friend...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1606 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend moves on to the terms of a referendum, which is beyond the scope of our debate on the...
Philip Davies | 472 c1605 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Liberal Democrats do not even want a referendum on in-or-ou...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1605-6 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree. The full absurdity of the Liberal Democrat leadership's position is that it want...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1604 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted and surprised in equal measure to have the opportunity to debate our instruction toda...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1604-5 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has spoken briefly, and I will attempt to do the same. In a way, this gives rise to a h...
Andrew Mackinlay | 472 c1603-4 (Link to this contribution) A little while ago, a good friend and colleague came up to me and said, ““Andrew, we don't need to s...
Speaker | 472 c1602 (Link to this contribution) Order. Whatever you do, do not draw me into the argument.
Speaker | 472 c1602 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman is not giving way, Mr. Cash—[Hon. Members: ““He's frit!””] Whatever his re...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1632 (Link to this contribution) The fact that the hon. Gentleman is able to raise the point illustrates the ability that Members rep...
Stewart Hosie | 472 c1632 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman refers to the prime democratic authority, and he is talking about Ministers of th...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1632 (Link to this contribution) I was about to finish, but I give way.
Stewart Hosie | 472 c1632 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Jon Trickett | 472 c1631-2 (Link to this contribution) I am familiar with the tactics of my hon. Friend, as I think the House probably is. He is often an e...
Rob Marris | 472 c1631 (Link to this contribution) I have to say to my hon. Friend that I like the last five lines of his amendment at the end of propo...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1631 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to my hon. Friend before I do so.
Jon Trickett | 472 c1631 (Link to this contribution) I am concerned that the treaty envisages new competences in certain limited areas of health provisio...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1638 (Link to this contribution) Enough has been said about that to allow us to move on. Other services mentioned in the amendments—
Robert Smith | 472 c1638 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris) made a slight mistake in suggesting that ...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1639 (Link to this contribution) I do agree. People will know that despite some difficulties in doing the external work of the Europe...
David Drew | 472 c1638-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend, who has largely stolen my thunder; my speech, if called, will be very short....
Michael Connarty | 472 c1637-8 (Link to this contribution) I see no contradiction between those approaches. I think we should focus on how best we can satisfy ...
Rob Marris | 472 c1638 (Link to this contribution) I caution my hon. Friend who, I suggest, is confusing two things: one, the liberalisation of postal ...
Stewart Hosie | 472 c1636 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that he prefers the approach he has just described, in some detail,...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c1633 (Link to this contribution) Order. Will the hon. Gentleman address the Chair, because that helps the microphone to pick up his w...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1633 (Link to this contribution) I understand that people often deal with principles and have those principles to the fore, but do no...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1633 (Link to this contribution) I look forward to the Minister's reply, and I pay tribute to the work that the Select Committee has ...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1633 (Link to this contribution) For the benefit of the microphones, I certainly will. Has my hon. Friend taken the trouble to look ...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1635-6 (Link to this contribution) I am becoming quite accustomed to listening to the speeches of the hon. Member for Forest of Dean (M...
Mark Harper | 472 c1633-5 (Link to this contribution) I shall not dwell at length on the detail of the various passerelle measures in the treaty, because ...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1636 (Link to this contribution) As I pointed out yesterday, the defence protocols are very clear. They maintain people's right to wo...
Mark Harper | 472 c1636 (Link to this contribution) I am perfectly prepared to accept that the present Polish Government have views about the European U...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1642 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman and I obviously have different views on this issue. When the Government negotiate...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1639-40 (Link to this contribution) I know of the report that the hon. Gentleman mentions and I was not going to go into the detail of i...
William Cash | 472 c1639 (Link to this contribution) The Chairman of the Scrutiny Committee has almost an obligation to give way in such matters. We are ...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1639 (Link to this contribution) I do not really want to —[Interruption.]
James Clappison | 472 c1642 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is tempting me down not a passerelle, but a cul-de-sac. I am happy to go down it, how...
William Cash | 472 c1642 (Link to this contribution) As a fellow member of the ESC, my hon. Friend will recall the recommendation we made in the 35th rep...
Mark Harper | 472 c1641 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) drew attention to a much nar...
Kelvin Hopkins | 472 c1640 (Link to this contribution) The idea that the Prime Minister would telephone my hon. Friend to consult him on decisions is a spl...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1640 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the usual channels will put that to the Prime Minister. If he has looked at my perfor...
Baroness Hoey | 472 c1628 (Link to this contribution) I am following my hon. Friend's remarks closely. I, too, agree with everything that he has said abou...
William Cash | 472 c1623 (Link to this contribution) Earlier, my right hon. Friend mentioned the external action-specific provisions on the common foreig...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1623-5 (Link to this contribution) It is perfectly true that there are additional provisions for majority voting in the field of CFSP. ...
William Cash | 472 c1625 (Link to this contribution) May I amplify what my right hon. Friend is saying? The cases of Macarthy's Ltd v. Smith under Lord D...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1625-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who is a constitutional lawyer, for his endorsement of what I have ...
William Cash | 472 c1627 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to dismay the hon. Gentleman by agreeing with him, because that might cause him some e...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1627-8 (Link to this contribution) I was not quite sure by the end of that intervention whether the hon. Gentleman agreed with me or no...
Kelvin Hopkins | 472 c1628 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech and I agree with every word. He has focused on the import...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1628 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree with my hon. Friend's point, although my amendment goes beyond that and says that ...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1623 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend's observation is accurate, and it is emphasised by the point I am about to make. The...
James Clappison | 472 c1623 (Link to this contribution) I know that my right hon. Friend wants to make progress, so I am grateful for his generosity in givi...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1622 (Link to this contribution) The so-called passerelle procedure means that all Governments must give up the veto on policy making...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1622 (Link to this contribution) I shall turn later in my remarks, and in debates on other groups of amendments that cover the matter...
Angela Watkinson | 472 c1621 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that, if there were no real intention to use the passerelle mechanis...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1622 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. All the clauses have a purpose. They are not decorative or descriptive, the...
Mark Harper | 472 c1622 (Link to this contribution) It is not good enough to rely on the Prime Minister's promise that the House will get a vote. He pro...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1623 (Link to this contribution) I agree that there is no substitute for primary legislation. That is how we make important agreement...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1622 (Link to this contribution) I know the case that the right hon. Gentleman is making, but sadly, he does not admit that the Prime...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1622 (Link to this contribution) I concede that it is a modest advance in the powers of the House that a vote will be required, but I...
Peter Bone | 472 c1621 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way; he is being extremely generous. Is not the dif...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1621 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is correct. The phrase ““simplified revision procedure”” gives the game away. T...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1621 (Link to this contribution) I have made the point that when the EU reaches a roadblock, it never retreats or even stops. It find...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1621 (Link to this contribution) I do not recall the passerelle provisions being the object of great fear at the time of Maastricht, ...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1621 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Indeed, I have a note of the existing passerelles. They deal with such matt...
Iain Duncan Smith | 472 c1621 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to my right hon. Friend for intervening again, as I know that he wants to make progress....
Philip Hollobone | 472 c1620 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that the great British public have virtually no idea about the effec...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1620 (Link to this contribution) It is my regret that the instruction to simplify the EU was never carried out. If we had a simpler d...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 472 c1620 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way, and I shall not interrupt him again. He has ri...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1620 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is a shrewd observer of these matters and he is right. It is a fond national my...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1619 (Link to this contribution) That may be the view of several commentators, but if one looks at the content of the treaty, one fin...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1619 (Link to this contribution) I had the privilege of speaking at a conference on Friday, attended by several Members of the Europe...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1619 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right; indeed, he anticipates my next remark. The rest of Europe has not abandoned...
Adrian Bailey | 472 c1629 (Link to this contribution) My apologies, Sir Alan. I shall reorientate myself. The subsidy that the Government provide is abou...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c1629 (Link to this contribution) Order. It would be helpful if the hon. Gentleman addressed the Chair. There would then be a better c...
Mark Harper | 472 c1630 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point about the hon. Member for West Bromwich, West (Mr. Bai...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1629 (Link to this contribution) I look forward to listening to my hon. Friend explaining to the people of his constituency why the p...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1630 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the hon. Gentleman's underlining a point that I have already made.
James Clappison | 472 c1630 (Link to this contribution) I am following the hon. Gentleman's argument carefully. Is he aware that, under the relevant title o...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1630 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way many more times now. There are certain public services that no one envisage...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1628-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a powerful point and many people in the country will agree with her. They, too,...
James Clappison | 472 c1642-3 (Link to this contribution) I have three points. First, historians will have an interesting time analysing the processes by whic...
James Clappison | 472 c1643-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. The wider point is that we shall simply have to get used to the fact that t...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 472 c1646 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has just referred to the mechanism under which the Council can decide that qualif...
James Clappison | 472 c1646 (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to be unkind to the hon. Gentleman, but I do not think that he has followed the whole ...
Rob Marris | 472 c1644-5 (Link to this contribution) If I have misunderstood the hon. Gentleman, I hope he will correct me. He was talking about QMV prov...
James Clappison | 472 c1645 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman has highlighted that, because I am coming to it. I am followi...
James Clappison | 472 c1645 (Link to this contribution) I shall certainly give way to the hon. Gentleman, who is an expert in these matters.
David Drew | 472 c1650 (Link to this contribution) More than anyone, my hon. Friend is a great advocate of the importance of the CWU and how it operate...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1650 (Link to this contribution) So if our postal workers, the members of the Communication Workers Union, are to be denied access to...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c1652 (Link to this contribution) Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will confine his remarks to the first group of amendments on c...
William Cash | 472 c1650-2 (Link to this contribution) I support the excellent amendment No. 48, tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wells (Mr. H...
Lord Spicer | 472 c1653 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend say a little more about why he wants a specific reference to the 1972 Act? What ...
William Cash | 472 c1652-3 (Link to this contribution) Of course I defer to your judgment, Mrs. Heal. However, clause 6(1) includes the phrase,"““unless Pa...
William Cash | 472 c1653 (Link to this contribution) Hopefully, we will vote on that tomorrow evening after the vote on the referendum. It relates to the...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c1653 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman is correct: that debate and discussion is for tomorrow evening, rather tha...
Rob Marris | 472 c1653-4 (Link to this contribution) I wish to make two brief points, the first of which relates to something that the hon. Member for He...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 472 c1646 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman rightly says, it has been a theme throughout his speech that there is somethin...
David Drew | 472 c1647-9 (Link to this contribution) I tabled amendment No. 284 and I also support amendments Nos. 286, 66, 283, 67 and 287. It is disapp...
James Clappison | 472 c1647 (Link to this contribution) I am about to finish my speech. The hon. Gentleman will have a chance to make his own contribution. ...
Rob Marris | 472 c1647 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
James Clappison | 472 c1646-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not know how much of the debate the hon. Gentleman has heard, but if he had been in his place t...
David Drew | 472 c1649-50 (Link to this contribution) That was a telling intervention. I tell my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk th...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1649 (Link to this contribution) I sympathise with my hon. Friend's points. We have a directive that said that postal services would ...
David Drew | 472 c1650 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way one last time.
Jon Trickett | 472 c1660 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether my hon. Friend has noticed, but the European Property Federation is in convers...
Baroness Hoey | 472 c1660-1 (Link to this contribution) I agree. Those are the sorts of issues that our constituents care about. They are frustrated when th...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c1661 (Link to this contribution) Order. I hope that the hon. Lady is not going to stray too far. I understand her passion on the subj...
Baroness Hoey | 472 c1661 (Link to this contribution) I will not, Mrs. Heal. I am sure that there will be another day for that. However, let us not hide t...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1659 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. There may be ways of ensuring parliamentary scrutiny through the timetabling of the House an...
Iain Duncan Smith | 472 c1659 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has proceeded pretty quickly and it has been difficult to follow her. Will she be clea...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1659 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to repeat myself for the right hon. Gentleman: I feel very much minded to vote for amendm...
Baroness Hoey | 472 c1659-60 (Link to this contribution) I would like to say a few words on amendments Nos. 286 and 284, with particular reference to the lat...
Mark Francois | 472 c1663-5 (Link to this contribution) As my right hon. Friend the Member for Wells (Mr. Heathcoat-Amory) has already introduced his amendm...
Lord Horam | 472 c1661-3 (Link to this contribution) I am always delighted to follow the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey), particularly on this occas...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1655-7 (Link to this contribution) I have hon. Friends with me today, which is welcome. Parliament should be involved in the balance o...
Rob Marris | 472 c1655 (Link to this contribution) Even I do not know the Government's position. I say that because the Minister for Employment Relatio...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1655 (Link to this contribution) It is always enjoyable to follow the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris). I feel ...
Rob Marris | 472 c1654-5 (Link to this contribution) I am, however, attracted to the flavour of my hon. Friend's amendment, which would insert additional...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1655 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a thoughtful speech—hon. Members would expect me to say that, given that I ...
David Heath | 472 c1658 (Link to this contribution) Such issues are crucial. It seems to me that we need, if necessary, to make the parliamentary timeta...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1658 (Link to this contribution) That is certainly my state of mind at the moment. The Minister has not yet spoken or given us a wond...
Mark Francois | 472 c1657 (Link to this contribution) I was listening carefully to the hon. Lady. Do I take it from her remarks that if amendment No. 47 w...
William Cash | 472 c1666 (Link to this contribution) It is just possible that the Minister gave the Chairman of the European Scrutiny Committee the benef...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1666-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk is not here, so we may have to go through ...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1665-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman, who is a member of the Better Off Out group, may say that—at least he is honest....
Jo Swinson | 472 c1669 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the Minister's use of semantics. If he is saying that the present wording is effe...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1669 (Link to this contribution) There is a basic principle that we should not accept redundant amendments, on the basis that they ar...
David Drew | 472 c1668 (Link to this contribution) One way in which the Government could really show their commitment would be to ensure that all the b...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1668-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has continued to argue that case strongly, today and on previous occasions. We contin...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1665 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to have the opportunity to respond to this evening's debate. The right hon. Member fo...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1669 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not think that it would be better, in such a scenario, for the timetabling to be s...
William Cash | 472 c1681-2 (Link to this contribution) I very much endorse much of what my right hon. Friend has said—[Hon. Members: ““All of it!””] I said...
Ed Davey | 472 c1681 (Link to this contribution) We intend to support the right hon. Gentleman's amendment, because we believe that parliamentary con...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1681 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's statement that he will be with us in trying to ensure that th...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c1670 (Link to this contribution) Order. Conversations are breaking out in different parts of the House and I am finding it very diffi...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1669-70 (Link to this contribution) It is just an issue about whether we wish to tie the Government to a position where, under primary l...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c1679-80 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 50, page 3, leave out line...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1680-1 (Link to this contribution) One of the aspects of the treaty that has caused so much concern in the House and in the country is ...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 472 c1670-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friends, particularly to my hon. Friends the Members for Hertsmere (Mr. Cla...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1679 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 19, page 3, leave out lines 21 to 35.
William Cash | 472 c1691 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague) has made some extremely important po...
Nicholas Winterton | 472 c1690 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady not accept that the answer that my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) ga...
William Cash | 472 c1691-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, the Whip on duty, may say that, but it is extremely difficult to be generous with th...
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 472 c1690 (Link to this contribution) I am beginning to wonder whether I am right as I agree with the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbito...
William Cash | 472 c1690 (Link to this contribution) The short answer is that, on one or two occasions, after recommendations from the European Scrutiny ...
Ed Davey | 472 c1689-90 (Link to this contribution) We could hold a long debate about different names—super majorities, qualified majority voting and so...
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown | 472 c1687 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has made a cogent case. These are indeed very serious clauses. Can he envisage ...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1687 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to stray too far from the amendments, Sir Michael, but my hon. Friend is absolutely co...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1687-8 (Link to this contribution) It is possible for the scenario to become even worse, although my hon. Friend the Member for Maccles...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1689 (Link to this contribution) The position of the Conservative party that I explained at the party conference was that there shoul...
Ed Davey | 472 c1688-9 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure, for once during our proceedings, to agree almost entirely with what the right hon....
William Cash | 472 c1689 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is in danger of confusing himself. Amendment No. 60 does not propose qualified ma...
Ed Davey | 472 c1689 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that clarification, which describes a significant difference. Moving from unanimit...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1687 (Link to this contribution) Thank you. If we are ever to sort that out, the British Government will be required to use their neg...
Bob Spink | 472 c1687 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the auditors have failed to sign off the accounts for 13 cons...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1687 (Link to this contribution) With his customary passion, my hon. Friend makes a point relevant to the multi-annual financial fram...
Nicholas Winterton | 472 c1686-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall be delighted to continue to listen to my right hon. Friend because he is making a lot of sen...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1686 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made a good point. Under the terms of the Bill as drafted, there might be a short...
Lord Cormack | 472 c1686 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend remind himself and the Committee that this Government introduced deferred ...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1685-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is pursuing a familiar argument, which was advanced during the consideration of a pre...
William Cash | 472 c1685 (Link to this contribution) Implicit in clause 6 is a provision whereby QMV could follow parliamentary approval. In those circum...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1684-5 (Link to this contribution) I believe that that issue was covered in the debate on the previous group of amendments. This group ...
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 472 c1684 (Link to this contribution) I should have read the amendments more carefully, but I have not quite worked out whether they would...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1684 (Link to this contribution) I had not considered that point, which the hon. Gentleman makes powerfully. One need consider such m...
Nicholas Winterton | 472 c1683 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has been a high flyer since the beginning of his parliamentary career. Some of ...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1682 (Link to this contribution) In the last vote, the Conservative party voted. We abstained on the previous vote, but then a commit...
William Cash | 472 c1683 (Link to this contribution) I was glad to hear my right hon. Friend agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Sir N...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1683 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has had many moments of high flight in his parliamentary career, which has been much ...
Brian Binley | 472 c1682 (Link to this contribution) Before my right hon. Friend continues with his speech, which is excellent as usual, does he agree th...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1682 (Link to this contribution) I endorse the whole of what my hon. Friend just said. He must not be too hard on me for missing some...
Ed Davey | 472 c1682 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. Gentleman is talking about the last Division, will he say whether the Conservative...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1682 (Link to this contribution) Yes. We have just seen a split in the Labour party's ranks during the last Division and now we see t...
Stewart Hosie | 472 c1683-4 (Link to this contribution) Is there not another reason to support that amendment? If an Act of Parliament was required and had ...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1683 (Link to this contribution) Again, my hon. Friend makes a powerful point, and I have much sympathy with his amendment, on which ...
Nicholas Winterton | 472 c1698 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) on the case he has presented. As someo...
Andrew Selous | 472 c1698 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that more Labour Members should be emboldened to take the principled stand...
Nicholas Winterton | 472 c1699 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I am a kind man. I believe that after a good many years in this place one perhaps moderates ...
Nicholas Winterton | 472 c1699 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, who has a great parliamentary career in front of her and who has recently been speak...
Theresa Villiers | 472 c1699 (Link to this contribution) The Government's main argument on the passerelle clauses, with which the amendments are concerned, s...
Nicholas Winterton | 472 c1699-700 (Link to this contribution) No. I must tell the hon. Gentleman that I have some experience under my belt, but it does not go bac...
Lord Cormack | 472 c1700-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to make a long speech; nor do I wish to embarrass the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgb...
William Cash | 472 c1696 (Link to this contribution) I will not become involved in discussing the Human Rights Act because it is not the subject of this ...
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown | 472 c1696 (Link to this contribution) The Merchant Shipping Act 1988 relates to circumstances that were not specifically foreseen. My hon....
William Cash | 472 c1697 (Link to this contribution) I am absolutely determined not to go there under any circumstances. I am saying that the most import...
William Cash | 472 c1697 (Link to this contribution) The short answer is that it is precisely because of the judicial activism that we discussed earlier ...
Nicholas Winterton | 472 c1696 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a most encouraging case. He has given an example in which the courts have u...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 472 c1697 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman almost anticipates me. I was about to say that he would perhaps face a ste...
Nicholas Winterton | 472 c1697 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may take a long time to say what he has to say, but he knows more about European trea...
William Cash | 472 c1697 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for having at times to explain things at greater length than even I would like. [Laughte...
Peter Bone | 472 c1694 (Link to this contribution) Although I agree with the thrust of my hon. Friend's argument, would it not be better to accept the ...
William Cash | 472 c1694 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to go into the specific details of the ““notwithstanding”” formula now, except to say ...
Lord Cormack | 472 c1695 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend and neighbour has taken us a little beyond the point at which I wanted to intervene, ...
William Cash | 472 c1694 (Link to this contribution) The short answer is that if I were to choose between the amendments, I would most emphatically choos...
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 472 c1694 (Link to this contribution) As an aside, I recommend to every Member a recent book on the Putney debates, written by a member of...
William Cash | 472 c1695 (Link to this contribution) Yes, indeed. The hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston has been reading about the Putney debates. An...
Nicholas Winterton | 472 c1695 (Link to this contribution) I respect my hon. Friend's knowledge of the history of this country and the development of laws over...
William Cash | 472 c1695 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point, and basically he is right. There is an increasing tendency ...
James Clappison | 472 c1695 (Link to this contribution) May I take my hon. Friend back to 1649, and its direct relevance to the amendments? Given the lack o...
Iain Duncan Smith | 472 c1693 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has moved on slightly from the point on which I wanted to intervene on him. I just wa...
William Cash | 472 c1692-3 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly give way to my right hon. Friend in a moment. I just want to get this on the record...
William Cash | 472 c1692 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in a moment. The reality is that that case demonstrated the assertion of primacy b...
William Cash | 472 c1694 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Lady first, and then to my hon. Friend.
William Cash | 472 c1693-4 (Link to this contribution) I am very glad to hear that, because these are matters of English historical significance. I simply ...
William Cash | 472 c1693 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is right in his general principle, but let me add one or two points to what he ...
Iain Duncan Smith | 472 c1693 (Link to this contribution) No, the hon. Lady was not laughing.
Jim Murphy | 472 c1706 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is well regarded by hon. Members on both sides of the House. I say to him that th...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1705-6 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that. The House will reach a decision on the rules that govern it, and it is not for...
Lord Cormack | 472 c1706 (Link to this contribution) The Minister must acknowledge what my hon. Friend the Member for Cotswold (Mr. Clifton-Brown) said a...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1703-5 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to have the opportunity to respond to the debate on this group of amendments. I am de...
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown | 472 c1705 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister accept that his argument sounds reasonable, until one examines it in detail? The p...
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown | 472 c1701-2 (Link to this contribution) I have not participated in any of the Lisbon treaty debates up until now. I am moved to participate ...
James Clappison | 472 c1702-3 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow those of my hon. Friends who have spoken to this amendment. Their f...
William Cash | 472 c1706 (Link to this contribution) The Minister must understand that the European Scrutiny Committee resolutions are absolutely integra...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1706 (Link to this contribution) Very briefly, because I wish to allow the shadow Foreign Secretary the chance to respond.
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1707-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton and I have not seen eye to eye throughout most of today's ...
Lord Hague of Richmond | 472 c1706-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Mr. Clappison) said that so strong had been the arguments p...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1706 (Link to this contribution) We continue to discuss all such issues with the Chairman of the European Scrutiny Committee and all ...
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 472 c1690 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that, but I think that we all agree that the House is not very effective in holdin...
Nicholas Winterton | 472 c1698-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I have always considered the Prime Minister to be a man of Chris...
William Cash | 472 c1697-8 (Link to this contribution) And may I say, ““With some relief,”” Sir Alan, because I know that we are time-limited. To summaris...
David Drew | 472 c1638 (Link to this contribution) Before my hon. Friend leaves postal services, will he give way?
William Cash | 472 c1639 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
James Clappison | 472 c1641-2 (Link to this contribution) I will go away and refer to some dusty tomes and study passerelles, but I remember in the Maastricht...
Ed Davey | 472 c1602 (Link to this contribution) If the other parties in this House are not prepared to vote for this instruction and to have the deb...
Michael Connarty | 472 c1638 (Link to this contribution) They are actually all tied up. The Post Office used to cross-subsidise the postal network, including...
William Cash | 472 c1643 (Link to this contribution) Are not decisions taken on a vast range of matters by the United Kingdom representatives? In other w...
William Cash | 472 c1653 (Link to this contribution) We cannot debate it, but hopefully we will vote on it. I will simply say that the provision is an ov...
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 472 c1690-1 (Link to this contribution) That is very much my take. Most Governments can get their way and will even whip primary legislation...
William Cash | 472 c1695-6 (Link to this contribution) On 3 May 1660, if we want to be absolutely precise. My hon. Friend is right. That is why the kind o...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 472 c1598-9 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I may be getting very old and my hearing may be going as well as e...
Iain Duncan Smith | 472 c1619 (Link to this contribution) In light of the comment by the Chairman of the European Scrutiny Committee, the point is that we hav...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 472 c1618 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend reflect on the fact that the only nationwide referendum in this country wa...
James Clappison | 472 c1640-1 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty), who i...
Jim Murphy | 472 c1670 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Sir Michael. I was, of course, coming to the conclusion of my comments—[Hon. Members: ““H...
Jon Trickett | 472 c1626-7 (Link to this contribution) I listened carefully to the points made by the right hon. Member for Wells (Mr. Heathcoat-Amory), so...
William Cash | 472 c1621 (Link to this contribution) Having taken some part in the Maastricht debates, I can confirm what my right hon. Friend has said. ...
Ed Davey | 472 c1602 (Link to this contribution) I shall obey your instruction totally, Mr. Speaker. I hope that all Members will now do the House a...
Ed Davey | 472 c1602 (Link to this contribution) Mr. Speaker, I am genuinely grateful to you for calling this instruction today. You have done this H...
Adrian Bailey | 472 c1629 (Link to this contribution) I do not recognise my hon. Friend's description of the European engagement with the Post Office. Doe...
Notes
Daily Part printing error - Official Report, 4 March 2008: Col. 1714, in Division No. 116, under Ayes, insert: Taylor, David
Subjects
Criminal proceedings
Administration of justice
Closures
Housing
Health
EU countries
Finance
Education
European Union
EU institutions
Prime ministers
Prosecutions
Referendums
Parliamentary scrutiny
Ministers
Parliament
Post offices
Treaties
UK membership of EU
Council of Ministers
European Council
Qualified majority voting
Treaty of Lisbon
Legislation
European Union (Amendment) Bill 2007-08
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
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