UK Parliament / Open data

European Communities (Finance) Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 19 November 2007, in the House of Commons, led by Andy Burnham. The answering member was Lord Hammond of Runnymede.
European Communities (Finance) Bill. Second reading debate. Agreed to on division (312 to 215). Programme motion on proceedings in Committee, on Report and Third reading. Agreed to on question. Money resolution agreed to on question.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
467 c976-1069, (corrigendum) 1168;467 c976-1069 
Session
2007-08
Department
Treasury
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Programme motions
Money resolutions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
European Communities (Finance) Bill. (Explanatory Notes Bill 2-EN published).
Wednesday, 7 November 2007
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Ian Davidson | 467 c1050 (Link to this contribution) Indeed they are. Not only are we trying to break the third world by forcing economic partnership agr...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1050 (Link to this contribution) Is not the monthly transfer all the more absurd these days, when people are so concerned about their...

Show all contributions (336)
David Drew | 467 c1049-50 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with that point. My worry is about the current economic partnership agreements, w...
Charles Walker | 467 c1051-2 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for calling me to speak at the end of this important debate, Madam Deputy Speaker. I shall...
David Leslie Taylor | 467 c1052 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is probably right in one respect: there is relatively little concern about the un...
Speaker | 467 c1050 (Link to this contribution) Order. I do not want this debate to stray into carbon footprints.
Ian Davidson | 467 c1050-1 (Link to this contribution) I certainly do not want to stray into carbon footprints either. The hon. Gentleman is entirely corre...
Charles Walker | 467 c1053 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Gentleman's point. If anything, the EU is too much about agriculture. The EU is obse...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1052-3 (Link to this contribution) If the argument were about giving from the rich to the poor, there might not be so much opposition t...
Charles Walker | 467 c1052 (Link to this contribution) I share many of the hon. Gentleman's concerns, and I will tell him why. My constituency faces signif...
Lee Scott | 467 c1053 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that my constituents, like his, are annoyed that the rest of Europe is lau...
Charles Walker | 467 c1053 (Link to this contribution) I accept my hon. Friend's observations. There is and must be a sense of frustration out there among ...
Speaker | 467 c1053 (Link to this contribution) Order. I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman could confine his remarks to the Bill, which is about fin...
Charles Walker | 467 c1053-4 (Link to this contribution) I will take your lead, Madam Deputy Speaker. All I am saying is that as Europe grows, and as more pe...
Speaker | 467 c1054 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Bill is about financing the EU budget, so could the hon. Gentleman ensure that his remark...
Charles Walker | 467 c1054 (Link to this contribution) I shall, of course, take my lead from you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and not from the Chief Secretary to...
Peter Bone | 467 c1054 (Link to this contribution) Would it not surprise the general public to know that the budget settlement means that in gross term...
Charles Walker | 467 c1054 (Link to this contribution) I have to disagree with my hon. Friend: I do not think that it will surprise the public. I think tha...
Charles Walker | 467 c1054 (Link to this contribution) I take your guidance once again, Madam Deputy Speaker. We need a much wider debate. The debate that...
Speaker | 467 c1054 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the hon. Gentleman once more that we are discussing the budget for European Communit...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1043 (Link to this contribution) Could not the argument be made that the issue is not actually about subsidies at all? The rate of gr...
John Redwood | 467 c1043 (Link to this contribution) This is not a debate about Scottish independence, but I agree that cutting the tax rate is a very go...
Julia Goldsworthy | 467 c1043 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is correct that there is still a large gap between Cornwall and the rest of...
John Redwood | 467 c1043 (Link to this contribution) Growth rates in London and the south-east are far greater than that in Cornwall, which demonstrates ...
John Redwood | 467 c1043 (Link to this contribution) I see the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Julia Goldsworthy), a Cornish seat, becoming agitat...
Julia Goldsworthy | 467 c1044 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman think that there is a benefit to investing in high-risk projects? Thos...
John Redwood | 467 c1044 (Link to this contribution) Again, the hon. Gentleman makes a helpful and sensible intervention. I hope that Ministers are liste...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1044 (Link to this contribution) Some economists argue that the agriculture subsidies not only did not help the Irish economy but hin...
John Redwood | 467 c1044 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for my hon. Friend's endorsement of my case. So much European money went into the agri...
William Cash | 467 c1043-4 (Link to this contribution) On the Irish economy, my right hon. Friend might not have been here when I made the point that there...
John Redwood | 467 c1045 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. As others have revealed in this debate, it is not even clear ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1045 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way again; he has been very kind. To control mi...
John Redwood | 467 c1045-6 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to personalise the debate in that rather unsophisticated way. However, I make common c...
Ian Davidson | 467 c1046 (Link to this contribution) ““We surrender; now let us negotiate.”” That seems to have been the Government's stance when they we...
John Redwood | 467 c1044-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady should read a history of the 1970s, when we had a Government who thought that backing ...
Oliver Heald | 467 c1045 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that the French position is that the major reform of agriculture has...
Ian Davidson | 467 c1049 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, I had already touched on that. Why are we giving more money to Belgium and Luxembourg? If mo...
John Redwood | 467 c1049 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making an excellent speech. Did he know that Luxembourg and Belgium—two of the...
John Redwood | 467 c1040-3 (Link to this contribution) In 1984, as a young man, I was the chief policy adviser to the then Prime Minister. One of my proude...
Austin Mitchell | 467 c1040 (Link to this contribution) No, I am grinding slowly to a halt. It is a painful process for the House that I do not particularly...
David Drew | 467 c1039 (Link to this contribution) Recently there has been a softening of attitudes towards the euro, especially by the UK media. The e...
Austin Mitchell | 467 c1039-40 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful that we did not join the euro. Our present Prime Minister kept us out. The euro is goi...
Austin Mitchell | 467 c1038-9 (Link to this contribution) The countries that have done best economically are outside the European Union, especially smaller co...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1038 (Link to this contribution) It is argued that one of the benefits of EU membership involves fiscal transfers. Does the hon. Gent...
Austin Mitchell | 467 c1038 (Link to this contribution) If I accepted that specious point I should be criticising my leader and I would never ever do that. ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c1038 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the amount of money that will flow out of our coun...
Austin Mitchell | 467 c1036 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to make changes: I just want to scrap it. That would be the sensible thing to do, beca...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1036-7 (Link to this contribution) In some ways, I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Indeed, if one looks further north—latitude may have ...
Austin Mitchell | 467 c1037-8 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that point. The Bill will increase our gros...
Austin Mitchell | 467 c1035-6 (Link to this contribution) The so-called concession on the CAP was not worth the paper that it was not written on. Our experien...
David Leslie Taylor | 467 c1036 (Link to this contribution) I am not even sure that the trend is downwards. The overall proportion of allocated expenditure that...
Austin Mitchell | 467 c1036 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is a fount of wisdom and sagacity, and I am always delighted to be corrected on any i...
Stewart Hosie | 467 c1036 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentions the CAP. There is no question but that it needs reform and we all have o...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c1034 (Link to this contribution) No. The hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford said that he did not want to give an analysis on Icela...
David Leslie Taylor | 467 c1035 (Link to this contribution) The previous Prime Minister, when negotiating rebate reform, stated that European partners had arriv...
Austin Mitchell | 467 c1034-5 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to follow on from what the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) s...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c1031 (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course I retract that and apologise, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We are also one of the few countri...
Kitty Ussher | 467 c1031 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman talks about helping the Poles. Does he think it would be helpful to them if we—th...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c1031 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not wish Turkey to be a member of the European Union. As I said, we are currently £700 bill...
Speaker | 467 c1031 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am happier if the word ““misleading”” is used as little as possible in debates, and, if it ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c1033-4 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not want that, but I want the accounts to be properly vetted so that there is more transpar...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1034 (Link to this contribution) With the greatest respect to the hon. Gentleman, rather than arguing against giving money to the eas...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c1031-2 (Link to this contribution) Nobody is talking about us getting a windfall from them. Conservative Members are scrutinising the G...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c1032-3 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman confront for a moment a point that I put, which is the truth: the criticism ...
Andy Burnham | 467 c1030 (Link to this contribution) Given the thrust of the hon. Gentleman's remarks, does he agree with the comments of his party leade...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c1030 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for calling me to speak in this important debate, Mr. Deputy Speaker. If the Bill is pass...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c1026 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows something about economics, and about something called a dynamic model, in w...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c1026 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr. MacNeil) who is going to ask me, o...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1026 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman chooses to answer his own question, he is more than welcome to do so. I was go...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c1026-7 (Link to this contribution) Having been shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland for three years, I know a little about Ir...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c1027-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I do not burn the midnight oil to discover the rates of paymen...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c1029-30 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give me a moment? I do not think the Eurosceptics should be proud of that a...
John Redwood | 467 c1026 (Link to this contribution) At the next election the hon. Gentleman might wish to fight a seat representing people in a much poo...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c1025-6 (Link to this contribution) I did not listen to that speech, but I do not think for a moment that the Foreign Secretary suggeste...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c1025 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that this is only the start. Further waves of relatively poor countries wil...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c1025 (Link to this contribution) I rarely agreed with the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale, West (Mr. Brady) when I sat on the sam...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c1024 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is not here at the moment, but we will watch carefully to ascertain whether...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c1023-4 (Link to this contribution) Indeed—and a few good men and true on the Labour Benches. As my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymed...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c1023 (Link to this contribution) It is puzzling at the very least—incomprehensible is how most of our constituents would view it. Th...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c1022-3 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Member for Rotherham talked a great deal, but he missed out one key possibility that ...
David Wright | 467 c1022 (Link to this contribution) You have no one to talk to in Europe.
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c1021-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes his point well, as ever. We are debating a small, defined Bill that will i...
Kelvin Hopkins | 467 c1021 (Link to this contribution) I should have said that when we talk about such issues, it is a matter of not left or right, but dem...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c1022 (Link to this contribution) I shall try not to end that state of affairs. It is a pleasure that we tend to attract the same ca...
Speaker | 467 c1022 (Link to this contribution) Order. All the speeches I hear in this House are a pleasure.
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1020 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a thoughtful argument about the need to abolish the CAP. Does he have s...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c1021 (Link to this contribution) I realised, slightly to my surprise, that I had been missing EU debates over the past few months, so...
Kelvin Hopkins | 467 c1020-1 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The hon. Gentleman is right to mention that. There may not be a lot of fishing in Luton, Nor...
Kitty Ussher | 467 c1064-5 (Link to this contribution) I am not giving way. Perhaps the Conservatives will use the money that would have gone to reconstru...
Kitty Ussher | 467 c1064 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is very persistent but I am not giving way. It would be remiss of me not t...
David Gauke | 467 c1057-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to wind up today's debate. Those of us who deal with Treasury matters are use...
Nia Griffith | 467 c1056 (Link to this contribution) We could discuss for ever individual figures and what goes where at any particular time. However, we...
Sion Simon | 467 c1058 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Gauke | 467 c1058 (Link to this contribution) I was quoting from the report of the European Scrutiny Committee, which summarised exactly what the ...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c1058 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman simply checks the Court of Auditors' report, he will find that there is no res...
David Gauke | 467 c1058 (Link to this contribution) I will, but I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not get too excited, as he did during his speech.
David Gauke | 467 c1059 (Link to this contribution) No, I am going to finish. I think we know how that was understood. The report continued by stating:...
Sion Simon | 467 c1059 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Gauke | 467 c1058-9 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a little bit of progress. We are short of time, and the hon. Gentleman has not been p...
Julia Goldsworthy | 467 c1055 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that it is not necessarily appropriate to try to compare the growth of the ...
Nia Griffith | 467 c1054-5 (Link to this contribution) First, Madam Deputy Speaker, I apologise that I was unable to be here at the beginning of the debate...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1055 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that London has not only all those advantages but a Government who tailor t...
Nia Griffith | 467 c1055 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. The comparison was made with London, which has enormous financial institutions of world ...
Ian Davidson | 467 c1055 (Link to this contribution) Surely if the Duke of Westminster feels no shame about taking EU money, neither should Wales.
Nia Griffith | 467 c1055 (Link to this contribution) I must disagree. We have ways in which to disburse funding and we are beginning to make a genuine di...
Speaker | 467 c1055 (Link to this contribution) Order. We have had more than enough such references to people who are in no position to answer back....
Nia Griffith | 467 c1055 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, especially given that we are somewhat poorer than the Duke of Westminster.
Peter Bone | 467 c1056 (Link to this contribution) When we joined the European Economic Community, 32 per cent. of our exports went to it. Now, only 25...
Nia Griffith | 467 c1055-6 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Let us revert to the CAP, which needs reform. That is on the EU ag...
Kitty Ussher | 467 c1064 (Link to this contribution) I could not agree more. I shall now make my concluding remarks.
Rob Marris | 467 c1063-4 (Link to this contribution) May I put to my hon. Friend the question I put to our right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary earlier?...
Kitty Ussher | 467 c1063 (Link to this contribution) I listened to the speech made by the right hon. Member for Wokingham. I have responded to the points...
Speaker | 467 c1063 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Lady is not giving way.
Kitty Ussher | 467 c1063 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give way. I have already responded to the right hon. Gentleman's points. I listened—[Hon. M...
Kitty Ussher | 467 c1063 (Link to this contribution) The deal is as set out by my right hon. Friend the then Chancellor, which is that the UK abatement w...
David Gauke | 467 c1063 (Link to this contribution) The Economic Secretary disputes the figures given by my right hon. and hon. Friends for the addition...
Kitty Ussher | 467 c1063 (Link to this contribution) I do apologise. The right hon. Gentleman made, as always, an eloquent speech, but one that was econo...
David Gauke | 467 c1060 (Link to this contribution) No. We are entitled to vote this down. Under article 269 of the European Union treaty this deal cons...
Sion Simon | 467 c1060 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c1062 (Link to this contribution) The Economic Secretary says that the deal is good for Britain, so why did the then Chancellor—now Pr...
Kitty Ussher | 467 c1060-2 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting debate in which several Members, not least the hon. Member for South-West...
David Gauke | 467 c1059-60 (Link to this contribution) Well, let us not then just take the words of The Sunday Times; why do we not take the words of the t...
Sion Simon | 467 c1060 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Kitty Ussher | 467 c1062-3 (Link to this contribution) He did not do that. The own-resources negotiations that took place after December 2005 implemented t...
Andy Burnham | 467 c983-4 (Link to this contribution) I say yes to the first question. My hon. Friend has tempted me to give a non-new Labour answer to th...
Rob Marris | 467 c983 (Link to this contribution) If we cut to the chase, are there not two key questions? One is: is the United Kingdom a member of t...
Andy Burnham | 467 c982-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is correct that that is how the rebate is calculated. Indeed, the first line of artic...
Ian Davidson | 467 c982 (Link to this contribution) May I clarify one point with the Minister? He says that our rebate is going up, but will he confirm ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c984 (Link to this contribution) I feel very cross with the Minister for suggesting that we do not want to help the eastern European ...
Andy Burnham | 467 c982 (Link to this contribution) This was a deal that the former Prime Minister and the current Prime Minister jointly agreed, and if...
Andy Burnham | 467 c982 (Link to this contribution) I would very much like to make some progress from my first point, and that is what I shall do. Seco...
Sion Simon | 467 c982 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister explain, because we find it difficult to understand, why Conservative Members inte...
Andy Burnham | 467 c982 (Link to this contribution) It certainly is, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making the point. Any informed commentator ...
Kelvin Hopkins | 467 c985 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is struggling manfully to cloak his dodgy deal in respectability by constantly ...
Andy Burnham | 467 c985 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right to point to that complete contradiction. As we have seen with pre...
Ian Davidson | 467 c986 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way, which is helpful in allowing us a degree of di...
Andy Burnham | 467 c985 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may be in search of perfection, but we work within the existing structures to improve...
Andy Burnham | 467 c984 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman's are, too. How on earth can he justify voting against the Bill tonight, ...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 467 c984 (Link to this contribution) The Minister's case seems to be that public expenditure in eastern Europe is bound to be a good thin...
Andy Burnham | 467 c984 (Link to this contribution) Because I favour the development of the European Union and the peace and prosperity that the Europea...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c985 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps we can get back to focusing on the Bill. Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that its purp...
Andy Burnham | 467 c985 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is being extremely nit-picking. I invite him to read the own resources decision, ...
Sion Simon | 467 c985 (Link to this contribution) Assuming that these are the same Tories who so recently raised xenophobic mayhem about the number of...
Andy Burnham | 467 c980 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman, but let him answer this question: does his party support hel...
Andy Burnham | 467 c980 (Link to this contribution) A visit to an optician's in Stone might be in order, too. This Government will continue to make the...
Speaker | 467 c980 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think that we should now move on. People are quoting different sets of figures, which are m...
Andy Burnham | 467 c980 (Link to this contribution) If anybody is watching at home, I will leave it to them to draw their own conclusions about who has ...
Denis MacShane | 467 c980 (Link to this contribution) Assuming that the hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) is reading from the same document as me, the UK i...
Andy Burnham | 467 c980 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Gentleman gets heated on these matters, but I urge him to use temperate languag...
Andy Burnham | 467 c979 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Gentleman will keep his seat, because I am going to read out one of his own quo...
William Cash | 467 c979-80 (Link to this contribution) May I try to correct something on which I think that the Minister—I say this in all fairness—misled ...
Philip Davies | 467 c979 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has been generous in giving way. He takes the view that the deal is good for Britain an...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c981-2 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is making a valiant attempt to defend the indefensible. If the deal is such...
Andy Burnham | 467 c981 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an incredibly important point that produced silence from the Opposition Benches...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c981 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend take it from me, because I know a tiny bit about it, that Conservative sta...
Andy Burnham | 467 c981 (Link to this contribution) I am glad about that. The hon. Gentleman may not like it, but the EU is our largest trading partner...
Chris Bryant | 467 c981 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the true voice of reason will continue now. The more important point about workers in th...
Andy Burnham | 467 c981 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend says it all. There speaks the true voice of experience and reason in this debate.
Peter Bone | 467 c981 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that it was in our economic interest to be in the European Union. When we went int...
Andy Burnham | 467 c981 (Link to this contribution) I fear that some more dodgy Tory figures are being quoted there.
Peter Bone | 467 c981 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Those figures were given to me by the Library.
Speaker | 467 c981 (Link to this contribution) That is not a point of order for the Chair, but the matter is now on the record.
Speaker | 467 c992 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Member has made his point.
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c990 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman recall one of his predecessors as Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the...
Rob Marris | 467 c991 (Link to this contribution) I think that my right hon. Friend is being a little unfair to the Conservative party. After all, wid...
Andy Burnham | 467 c990-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is now raising spurious points. I think I owe it to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, to...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c990 (Link to this contribution) If this is such a good deal for Britain and our eastern European friends, why did the then Chancello...
Andy Burnham | 467 c990 (Link to this contribution) I cannot make myself any clearer to the hon. Gentleman than I already have. I told him at the beginn...
Ian Davidson | 467 c992 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. There are times when support from the Opposition Benches is not hel...
Ian Davidson | 467 c992 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is displaying a degree of cruelty that I had not expected. Being nasty to the Conservat...
Andy Burnham | 467 c992 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and what we have witnessed this afternoon provides ample illustr...
Andy Burnham | 467 c992-4 (Link to this contribution) Interestingly, on that last point, in fact I was not; I am happy to put that on the record today. I...
Chris Bryant | 467 c994 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that round of applause from Conservative Members. Surely the important point about...
Andy Burnham | 467 c994 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to my hon. Friend—[Interruption.]
Andy Burnham | 467 c994 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has tempted me on to matters that this House will debate in a few weeks' or a few mon...
Philip Davies | 467 c994 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased that the Minister acknowledges that work needs to be done. Does he accept that reform i...
Andy Burnham | 467 c994 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way, for the last time before I finish, to the hon. Gentleman.
Andy Burnham | 467 c995 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West made a good point before. He asked whether o...
Denis MacShane | 467 c987 (Link to this contribution) Conservative Members have suggested that France will veto any reform of the common agricultural poli...
Julia Goldsworthy | 467 c987 (Link to this contribution) Does the Chief Secretary agree that there are concerns that pillar two of the CAP is being cut, when...
Andy Burnham | 467 c987 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes an important point. The agreement invited member states voluntarily to move spen...
John Baron | 467 c987 (Link to this contribution) The Chief Secretary is being very generous and is encouraging a proper exchange of views. He is bein...
Andy Burnham | 467 c987 (Link to this contribution) Of course, the overall budget is increasing in size. The figures to which I referred a moment ago in...
David Gauke | 467 c986 (Link to this contribution) The Chief Secretary said that CAP spending will fall as a percentage of the EU budget as a whole, bu...
Andy Burnham | 467 c986 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that they said that because they knew that that would benefit many constituencies represen...
Chris Bryant | 467 c986 (Link to this contribution) Many people may be right to argue for CAP reform, which we would all like to see for moral reasons—n...
Andy Burnham | 467 c986 (Link to this contribution) Thanks very much! I know that my hon. Friend is feeling bad because Scotland lost at the weekend, bu...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c989-90 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has thrown up lots of smoke over the past few minutes. Let us get back to t...
Andy Burnham | 467 c990 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman keeps saying that we are giving up the rebate, but he has not listened to a word ...
Andy Burnham | 467 c989 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman listens, he will find that my point is far more pertinent than many of the int...
Speaker | 467 c989 (Link to this contribution) Order. The occupant of the Chair will determine whether a comment is in order.
Speaker | 467 c989 (Link to this contribution) Order. We have heard a sufficient amount on that topic now. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will mo...
Philip Davies | 467 c988 (Link to this contribution) The Chief Secretary said earlier that giving more money to countries in eastern European would benef...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c989 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The matter commented on by the Chief Secretary—the intern...
Andy Burnham | 467 c988-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman betrays alarming ignorance of those matters. Businesses in West Yorkshire have be...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c978 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has mentioned France's and Italy's net contributions. In the interests of transparency,...
Andy Burnham | 467 c978 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely correct: France is a net contributor, as is this country. As I ha...
Andy Burnham | 467 c979 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the hon. Gentleman; he has waited a long time.
John Redwood | 467 c979 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister tell us what our total gross contribution as a country will be between 2007 and 20...
Andy Burnham | 467 c979 (Link to this contribution) I will answer the right hon. Gentleman, but Members are tempting me to the meat and detail of my spe...
Andy Burnham | 467 c979 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way first to the right hon. Gentleman and then to the hon. Gentleman.
Andy Burnham | 467 c978 (Link to this contribution) I should say to the hon. Gentleman—[Interruption.] If he holds his horses, I shall give him his answ...
Julia Goldsworthy | 467 c977 (Link to this contribution) The Chief Secretary is right that it is important that the parts of Europe that need structural fund...
Andy Burnham | 467 c977 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is right on that strict technical point. I hope that she accepts that Cornwall will co...
Ian Davidson | 467 c978 (Link to this contribution) Many of us are and always have been in favour of expansion and of contributing money to the new acce...
Andy Burnham | 467 c978 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend knows my background, and I do not agree with him at all. Indeed, it is possible to ar...
John Baron | 467 c976-7 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will remember that the Government's original position was that the rebate would be give...
Andy Burnham | 467 c977 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has raised a range of points that I will address in the substance of my remarks. ...
William Cash | 467 c977 (Link to this contribution) Will the Chief Secretary indicate in straightforward and simple language how much less will be made ...
Andy Burnham | 467 c977 (Link to this contribution) I will come on to that point in my remarks, if the hon. Gentleman will hold his horses. I ask him he...
Denis MacShane | 467 c978 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister cares to read page 32 of the excellent paper prepared by the Library for this debate...
Kelvin Hopkins | 467 c1004 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend began his speech by correctly stating that the system of European finance is co...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1004 (Link to this contribution) The Chief Secretary was extraordinarily generous in giving way, and as a result his speech lasted fo...
Kelvin Hopkins | 467 c1004 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Denis MacShane | 467 c1004 (Link to this contribution) I was referring to your knowledge of parliamentary history, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and not to your expe...
Speaker | 467 c1004 (Link to this contribution) Order. If there are only three and I am one of them, I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will clari...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1003-4 (Link to this contribution) EU finance is horrendously complicated, and I wish the Chief Secretary and the hon. Member for Runny...
Andy Burnham | 467 c1002 (Link to this contribution) It is right that our contribution will increase to pay for EU enlargement in eastern Europe. Our con...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c1002-3 (Link to this contribution) I know that the Treasury operates only a static model. The Chief Secretary would be right if everyth...
Julia Goldsworthy | 467 c1002 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman saying that he would be happy for the UK to be a net recipient, benefiting fro...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c1002 (Link to this contribution) No. As I said to the Chief Secretary, the UK's net contribution will rightly increase substantially,...
Kelvin Hopkins | 467 c1008 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has made several references to Ireland. If I were Irish, I would be very enthus...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1006-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to make this a Polish-Polish debate, but I ask the hon. Gentleman to reflect a little ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c1006 (Link to this contribution) I agree that Britain has helped Poland and other eastern European countries tremendously. The right ...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1007-8 (Link to this contribution) The Francophobia that always infects these debates is jolly good fun, but there are 25 other member ...
William Cash | 467 c1007 (Link to this contribution) I should like to take this opportunity with regard to a point—not exactly an allegation—that I made ...
Jim Cunningham | 467 c1005 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend mentioned Baroness Thatcher; it is worth mentioning that during that period she...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1005 (Link to this contribution) At the time of Mrs. Thatcher's premiership, spending on the CAP was significantly higher—about 80 pe...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1005-6 (Link to this contribution) He will come in later, I am sure. During the debate that I mentioned, senior members of my party—it...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1004-5 (Link to this contribution) I will come on to that point, because part of this debate is about a transfer from a very rich natio...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1010 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Denis MacShane | 467 c1010 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman really thinks that the Ireland of the 1920s, 30s and 40s, o...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1008 (Link to this contribution) I am terribly sorry, but page 34 of the Library report shows that in 2006 Ireland received €475 mill...
Kelvin Hopkins | 467 c1008 (Link to this contribution) I return to my previous point. If the system of contributions and receipts from the EU was proportio...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1009-10 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether that is a wise intervention on the afternoon when we have learned how much money we...
William Cash | 467 c1010 (Link to this contribution) I would like to draw to the right hon. Gentleman's attention an extremely interesting book by Roy Fo...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1009 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is talking through his hat. Ireland was so poor when it joined in 1973 that the amoun...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c1009 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has been talking about Ireland. I must tell him—we get on quite well with o...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1012 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman wish to intervene?
Speaker | 467 c1012 (Link to this contribution) Order. The right hon. Gentleman really must bring his remarks closer to what he himself admits is a ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1010 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, who has such a fine Scottish surname, or perhaps it is Ir...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1010-1 (Link to this contribution) Ireland is successful today because it plays a full role in the European Union. Were Scotland to qui...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1011 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind. In 1960, about 14.6 per cent. of GDP was in ex...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1011-2 (Link to this contribution) I love my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell), but he has not been in his place ...
Julia Goldsworthy | 467 c1013 (Link to this contribution) As I was saying, the right hon. Gentleman made two important points. The first was that we should re...
Kelvin Hopkins | 467 c1014 (Link to this contribution) I sympathise entirely with the hon. Lady's concern about poor regions in Britain, including Cornwall...
Speaker | 467 c1013 (Link to this contribution) Only Ministers or Parliamentary Private Secretaries should approach the Box.
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c1013 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am sorry to interrupt the proceedings, but is it in order...
Julia Goldsworthy | 467 c1013 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr. MacShane). He said that we...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1013 (Link to this contribution) After 13 years I am torturing a Conservative MP. There we are—happiness is mine. When the hon. Gentl...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1012-3 (Link to this contribution) Any rebuke from you is always well merited, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I just think that we should help one...
Kelvin Hopkins | 467 c1019-20 (Link to this contribution) Certainly in terms of borrowing it is, but that was a debate for earlier today. Other costs are ass...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c1018 (Link to this contribution) At the time, it was greatly publicised on television that the then Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, was in...
Kelvin Hopkins | 467 c1018 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to be able to speak in a European debate, and in particular to speak on the Bill that w...
Julia Goldsworthy | 467 c1016-7 (Link to this contribution) The Conservatives will be joining us in opposing the Bill's Second Reading today. We oppose the Bill...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c1016 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that the hon. Lady agrees with us that the Bill seeks to implement a bad deal. Will s...
Julia Goldsworthy | 467 c1017 (Link to this contribution) Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I was saying that other Members have mentioned the problem...
Speaker | 467 c1017 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Lady. I do not know whether she is being disturbed by her co...
Julia Goldsworthy | 467 c1014-6 (Link to this contribution) It would be fantastic if that were the case, but unfortunately it was a hard fight even to get Cornw...
Hugh Bayley | 467 c997 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Hugh Bayley | 467 c998 (Link to this contribution) What would the hon. Gentleman's party advocate to achieve a better agreement?
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c997-8 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman completely misses the point of the debate, which is the own-resources decis...
Hugh Bayley | 467 c998 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman feels that the Government did not drive a hard enough bargain, but let us talk re...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c997 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to fall into the same trap as the Chief Secretary and extend my remarks beyond an hour...
Andy Burnham | 467 c997 (Link to this contribution) I realise that I spoke for a long time, but if the hon. Gentleman believes that the deal gives away ...
Speaker | 467 c998 (Link to this contribution) Order. Is the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr. Hammond) accepting a second intervention?...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c998 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman listens, he will find that the burden of my argument is that this Government h...
Hugh Bayley | 467 c998 (Link to this contribution) What would the hon. Gentleman's party—
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c997 (Link to this contribution) I shall address the hon. Gentleman's point later in my speech.
Andy Burnham | 467 c995 (Link to this contribution) He is nodding. If the leader of the Conservative party is allowing Members such as the hon. Gentlema...
Speaker | 467 c995 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Chief Secretary has made his point, so perhaps we could now proceed with the debate.
Andy Burnham | 467 c995 (Link to this contribution) I shall now proceed to my conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker—[Hon. Members: ““Hooray!””] Well, I have ...
Ian Davidson | 467 c995 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Would it be in order for me to move a vote of thanks to t...
Speaker | 467 c995 (Link to this contribution) That is not a point of order for the Chair, although the Chief Secretary certainly was generous in t...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c995-6 (Link to this contribution) This is a very small Bill, with one operative clause, although after the Chief Secretary's speech I ...
Chris Bryant | 467 c996 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, the hon. Gentleman does not like this deal, but, as he knows, in negotiating a different on...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c996 (Link to this contribution) It is not the kind of proposal that I would suggest; it is the kind of proposal that Tony Blair went...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c1000 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman criticises me for not doing my homework, but that is far from the case. Does he a...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c1000 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to be cruel to the hon. Gentleman, but I say to him what the Chief Secretary said to me e...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 467 c999-1000 (Link to this contribution) Talking of throwing up smoke, has the hon. Gentleman not noticed the two most salient aspects of the...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c1001-2 (Link to this contribution) I advise the Chief Secretary to stop digging. He is right that the own-resources decision sets out t...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c1001 (Link to this contribution) The calculation of the amended rebate is a purely mechanical process to give effect to the political...
Andy Burnham | 467 c1001 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is straightforwardly wrong. I have the own-resources decision here. Clearly, he h...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c1001 (Link to this contribution) That is an extraordinarily interesting piece of speculation better made from the Back Benches than f...
Andy Burnham | 467 c1001 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman keeps making that point, but he is completely confused. The 2007 to 2013 budget a...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c1000-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman refers to the link or otherwise between the spending decision and the own-resourc...
John Baron | 467 c1001 (Link to this contribution) May I tempt my hon. Friend to speculate about why we caved in on the rebate? Given that it was non-n...
Ian Davidson | 467 c999 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c999 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has heard my hon. Friends' answer. The decision required unanimity so there was n...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c999 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the hon. Member for Glasgow, South-West (Mr. Davidson).
Ian Davidson | 467 c999 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is entirely inappropriate and unilluminating for Government Me...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c999 (Link to this contribution) I have to congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his elegant question. If I were in the Chief Secretary'...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c999 (Link to this contribution) I shall in a moment. Far from scrapping the common agricultural policy, the Government agreed to an...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 467 c999 (Link to this contribution) I shall in a moment. It was a truly humiliating defeat, for which British taxpayers will have to pa...
Andy Burnham | 467 c976 (Link to this contribution) I will come to the changes implemented by the decision, but the point that I was about to make when ...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c976 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister. He says that under the deal, the British abatement will increase. Will he conf...
Daniel Kawczynski | 467 c976 (Link to this contribution) : The Minister mentioned that the agreement will benefit eastern European states, but is he aware th...
Andy Burnham | 467 c976 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. We have a rare treat today—a Treasury doubl...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1023 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, for a United Kingdom that faces a £39.6 billion deficit in the n...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 467 c1023 (Link to this contribution) And the smallest—[Interruption.] They are not quite the smallest; we should give credit to one or tw...
Andy Burnham | 467 c987 (Link to this contribution) The rebate exists because of distortions in the way that money is spent around the EU. The rebate wi...
Andy Burnham | 467 c976 (Link to this contribution) I respect the hon. Gentleman's knowledge of eastern Europe, but he will understand that the rate at ...
Denis MacShane | 467 c1010 (Link to this contribution) I was in Edinburgh on Saturday, and I wept. I did not drink Italian coffee or eat spaghetti for a wh...
Andy Burnham | 467 c987 (Link to this contribution) As a simple lad from the north-west, I have never read page 27 of the economics section of Le Figaro...
Kelvin Hopkins | 467 c1018-9 (Link to this contribution) I sincerely hope that they were speaking on the telephone, but it may be that they did not have the ...
Ian Davidson | 467 c1047-9 (Link to this contribution) I see the Economic Secretary to the Treasury shaking her head; I presume that she is still one of th...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1027 (Link to this contribution) Before we move on to the subject of corruption, we should acknowledge the deep, inbuilt, structural ...
Andy Burnham | 467 c989 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge will enlighten us, as we deserve to be told....
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 467 c1011 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Charles Walker | 467 c1013 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman not recognise that it is this type of speech that gives debates about ...
Notes
Daily part printing error - Amendment to division list at 467 c1067, in the Noes, delete "Burgon, Colin".
Subjects
Audit
Common fisheries policy
British overseas territories
EU countries
EU enlargement
EU budget
Job creation
EU grants and loans
National income
Rebates
Republic of Ireland
Treaties
Common agricultural policy
Eastern Europe
Balance of trade
Legislation
European Communities (Finance) Bill 2007-08
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
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