Childcare Bill. Second reading debate agreed to on question. Programme motion for proceedings in Committee, on Report and Third reading agreed to on question (formal). Money resolution and Ways and Means resolution agreed to on question (formal).
Childcare Bill
Debate on bills on Monday, 28 November 2005,
in the House of Commons,
led by Ruth Kelly.
The answering
member was Baroness May of Maidenhead.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
440 c24-103 
Session
2005-06
Legislative stage
Second reading
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Ruth Kelly | 440 c25 (Link to this contribution)
I made it quite clear that there were no new unfunded costs in the Bill. Local authorities have a du...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c24 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
Today is a landmark for families and childr...
Show all contributions (132)
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 440 c24 (Link to this contribution)
The Secretary of State referred to the new duties that the Bill would impose on local authorities. W...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c25 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, there is, and the House will shortly debate the Work and Families Bill, which will build on the...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c25 (Link to this contribution)
I noted the right hon. Lady’s comment about maternity pay being extended in the Work and Families Bi...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c25 (Link to this contribution)
We will debate those issues in the House next week. I urge the right hon. Lady to be patient and mak...
Hywel Williams | 440 c25-6 (Link to this contribution)
The Secretary of State referred to the large number of child care places now available. Would she sa...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c26 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes an incredibly important point. We need not only to tackle child care for th...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c24 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the £17 billion that we have put into child care provision over ...
Mark Prisk | 440 c24-5 (Link to this contribution)
In her response to my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman), the Secretary of State sugge...
Liz Blackman | 440 c26 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend has just mentioned provision for disabled children. She will know that provisio...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c26 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a very important point. How children are looked after and the quality and leade...
Edward Leigh | 440 c26 (Link to this contribution)
In the context of her earlier answer, can the Secretary of State guarantee, in the interests of givi...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c27 (Link to this contribution)
I shall give way once more before making some progress.
Joan Humble | 440 c27 (Link to this contribution)
Earlier, my right hon. Friend mentioned affordability. When she looks at the special needs of childr...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c27 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a good point. The Bill tries to ensure that there is sufficient affordable prov...
David Evennett | 440 c27 (Link to this contribution)
I was interested to hear the right hon. Lady’s response to the hon. Member for Blackpool, North and ...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c26 (Link to this contribution)
I am very aware that, from time to time, the Opposition make the proposal that there should be tax r...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c26-7 (Link to this contribution)
I want to make some progress and then I will take interventions from my colleagues and others.
The ...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 440 c58-9 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed; and my hon. Friend—obviously—is still here. I no longer have the honour to serve on that Com...
John Bercow | 440 c59 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend mentions regulation. The Government say that the Bill will simplify regulation, but w...
Helen Goodman | 440 c59-60 (Link to this contribution)
I was concerned that my hon. Friend was about to ask me a form of question that he has been known to...
Helen Goodman | 440 c60-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman), although I do not know whether he ...
Rob Wilson | 440 c63-5 (Link to this contribution)
I do not wish to detain the House for too long because we can all agree about a awful lot in the Bil...
Nadine Dorries | 440 c48 (Link to this contribution)
In a previous life, I visited a large number of Sure Start projects; for example, the Newcastle cent...
Ann Coffey | 440 c55-7 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome the Bill. The Government’s continuing investment in child care and the working tax credit ...
Annette Brooke | 440 c48-55 (Link to this contribution)
There are strengths and weaknesses in diversity and in some ways much was learned by having differen...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 440 c57-8 (Link to this contribution)
I want to begin by briefly considering the context in which the Bill is set. We all know as constitu...
Ed Miliband | 440 c69 (Link to this contribution)
I take that point. I recognise that sustainability and availability are a particular problem in rura...
John Bercow | 440 c69 (Link to this contribution)
As always, I am listening to the hon. Gentleman’s speech with great interest. He posits the scenario...
Ed Miliband | 440 c66-9 (Link to this contribution)
I was going to come on to the hon. Member for Reading, East.
It is partly a privilege to speak beca...
Hywel Williams | 440 c69 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman posits three causes: market failure, a lack of perfect information, and availabil...
Rob Wilson | 440 c65 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Lady will allow me to continue for few moments, I will address that very point.
It make...
Ed Miliband | 440 c66 (Link to this contribution)
It is a privilege to speak in the debate, following my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for ...
Rob Wilson | 440 c65-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am aware of the investment, as I recognised earlier.
Perhaps the Minister could use this opportun...
Helen Goodman | 440 c65 (Link to this contribution)
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that since 1997, under the Sure Start programme, the Government have put...
Hywel Williams | 440 c75-6 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely pertinent point. It is interesting that the grandparents did n...
Madeleine Moon | 440 c76-9 (Link to this contribution)
As a Welsh Member, it is with pleasure that I carry on the Welsh theme from the hon. Member for Caer...
John Bercow | 440 c79 (Link to this contribution)
I agree that that is an example of precisely the sort of flexibility that we want to see and need to...
Ed Miliband | 440 c71-2 (Link to this contribution)
I suppose that there is a difference of opinion. I have not had the experience of being in oppositio...
John Bercow | 440 c71 (Link to this contribution)
Uncharacteristically, the hon. Gentleman has identified a logical lacuna in his own argument, and in...
John Bercow | 440 c74-5 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman mentioned grandparents providing care for people in their own family. Earlier in ...
Hywel Williams | 440 c72-4 (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Doncaster, North (Edward Miliband), who gave a finely...
Ed Miliband | 440 c69-70 (Link to this contribution)
I take the point that Governments can fail as well as markets, but I slightly take issue with the ho...
Ed Miliband | 440 c70-1 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her intervention. I completely agree that we are talking about a ...
Annette Brooke | 440 c70 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the thrust of the Bill is to make the local authority the commiss...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c36-7 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, and those costs are ongoing because the assessment must carry on; it is not a one-off effort...
Ed Miliband | 440 c35 (Link to this contribution)
There is little surprise that concern has been expressed about the Opposition’s view on Sure Start, ...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c34-5 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady makes a valuable point about her experience in her constituency. She might be aware, h...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c35 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman should pay more attention not only to my speeches and those of other Conservative...
John Bercow | 440 c36 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has identified one example in which what the Government said does not appear to match...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c35-6 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for his helpful sedentary intervention. We set out our views in a number of m...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 440 c36 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham (Mr. Bercow) referred to clauses 12 and 13, but clause 11 s...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c36 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has subjected the Bill to his characteristically rigorous assessment and he is absolu...
Ann Coffey | 440 c34 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Lady might not be aware that in my constituency the Bridgehall and Adswood project ha...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c37 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady says that she has looked at clause 41, but I suggest that she look at clause 41(2)(b) ...
Joan Humble | 440 c37 (Link to this contribution)
Clause 41 introduces the learning and development requirements, and I note that it specifically poin...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c37 (Link to this contribution)
I am going to make some progress.
Babies develop at their own pace and learn to walk, talk and unde...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c38 (Link to this contribution)
No, I am going to make some more progress. I am going to return to the Professional Association of N...
Nick Hurd | 440 c39-40 (Link to this contribution)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the success of this Government’s strategy depends on the qualit...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c39 (Link to this contribution)
No. As I said, I hope that in Committee, the Government will work with us to ensure that it is paren...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c40 (Link to this contribution)
I entirely agree with the extremely valid point that my hon. Friend makes. Quality is a key issue th...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 440 c39 (Link to this contribution)
I do not want Members to feel that they are being misled. Has the right hon. Lady read the framework...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c39 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Gentleman is unable to take a light-hearted and off-the-cuff remark relating to educatio...
Helen Goodman | 440 c39 (Link to this contribution)
Will the right hon. Lady give way?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c39 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for her intervention. When she winds up, perhaps she could explain how...
Michael Connarty | 440 c38 (Link to this contribution)
I do not really want to interrupt the right hon. Lady’s fantasy, but she really must look north. The...
Michael Connarty | 440 c39 (Link to this contribution)
Could the right hon. Lady please explain her earlier remark? I do not understand what she was trying...
Annette Brooke | 440 c46-8 (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Blackpool, North and Fleetwood (Mrs. Humble), whose c...
Joan Humble | 440 c46 (Link to this contribution)
I could not possibly comment on the latter point, but I agree with the hon. Gentleman on the former....
John Bercow | 440 c46 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening with great interest and respect to the hon. Lady, who clearly knows a great deal abou...
Joan Humble | 440 c45-6 (Link to this contribution)
Everybody present is taking part in this debate because we all care about these children and their n...
Adam Afriyie | 440 c44-5 (Link to this contribution)
I recently visited Bracknell Forest borough council educational services; we toured one or two of th...
Joan Humble | 440 c42-4 (Link to this contribution)
I was going to put that question to the Minister, and I hope that she will respond to both the hon. ...
Joan Humble | 440 c41-2 (Link to this contribution)
It is with great pleasure that I rise to support this excellent Bill. It is good news for parents, i...
John Bercow | 440 c42 (Link to this contribution)
It is very important that we use our terms precisely. The Bill clearly imposes a duty on local autho...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c40 (Link to this contribution)
I suggest to the Minister that she look at the record, because my hon. Friend the Member for East Wo...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c27-8 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. That is why it is so important that we have invested £1...
Mark Harper | 440 c28 (Link to this contribution)
The Secretary of State has made several references to the duties placed on local authorities, and th...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c28 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman does not take into account the fact that, over the next three years, there will b...
Sally Keeble | 440 c28 (Link to this contribution)
May I raise with my right hon. Friend the fact that the ““Every Child Matters”” document did not pay...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c28 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a good point. Housing is a key part of the ““Every Child Matters”” agenda and n...
Helen Goodman | 440 c28 (Link to this contribution)
Clause 6 places a duty on local authorities to secure sufficient child care for working parents. Doe...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c28 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes an important point. The generosity of the working tax credit system has been in...
Theresa Villiers | 440 c28 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Ruth Kelly | 440 c28-9 (Link to this contribution)
I must make some progress.
Because life chances are still too often determined by parental backgrou...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c29 (Link to this contribution)
I must make some progress.
To achieve that, every local authority will have to take into account wh...
Ed Miliband | 440 c31 (Link to this contribution)
Will the right hon. Lady give way?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c31 (Link to this contribution)
It seems a little early, but if the hon. Gentleman feels the need to intervene, I shall give way.
Ruth Kelly | 440 c29-30 (Link to this contribution)
I do not. The hon. Gentleman is right to say that the duty refers specifically to working families b...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c30-1 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome many of the aims and much of the content of the Bill, which the Secretary of State has exp...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c29 (Link to this contribution)
I give way one last time to the hon. Gentleman, who has been very persistent.
Nick Hurd | 440 c29 (Link to this contribution)
Does the Secretary of State share the concerns of the Daycare Trust, whose judgment is that the Bill...
Nick Hurd | 440 c29 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c31-2 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is right that, contrary to the claims made by the Secretary of State about child pove...
Ed Miliband | 440 c31 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Lady defends, rather surprisingly, the record of the last Conservative Government. Le...
Andrew Gwynne | 440 c33 (Link to this contribution)
Will the right hon. Lady give way?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c33 (Link to this contribution)
In a moment.
It is wonderful, is it not? Labour Members seem to think that all that matters is a nu...
Andrew Gwynne | 440 c33 (Link to this contribution)
Parents in my constituency, and in many other constituencies, do have a real choice. There are Sure ...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c33-4 (Link to this contribution)
I am pleased to hear of the hon. Gentleman’s constituency experience, but I can tell him that many o...
Kitty Ussher | 440 c32 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Lady mentioned her backing for supported parenting for every child. Why, then, did he...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c32-3 (Link to this contribution)
I suggest that the hon. Lady look at our manifesto proposals for parents in relation to flexibility ...
Helen Goodman | 440 c33 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Lady may not be aware that there are half a million more child care places than there...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c33 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady should look carefully at what has happened as a result of the Government’s child care ...
Ruth Kelly | 440 c34 (Link to this contribution)
Are you going to support it?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c34 (Link to this contribution)
If the Secretary of State had been listening about 30 seconds ago, she would have heard me say that ...
Tim Loughton | 440 c97-8 (Link to this contribution)
I do not think that there is a circle to square. My point is that we are in danger of treating all c...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 440 c98-102 (Link to this contribution)
We have had an interesting debate, with some knowledgeable contributions from hon. Members on both s...
Roberta Blackman-Woods | 440 c85-8 (Link to this contribution)
I support the Bill, and I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Mr. ...
Kitty Ussher | 440 c88-9 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome the Bill, which, I believe, encapsulates the heart of our party’s values—to aim to break t...
Tim Loughton | 440 c91-7 (Link to this contribution)
That is a good point. If one looks at the survey that the National Day Nurseries Association has con...
Tim Loughton | 440 c89-91 (Link to this contribution)
I am delighted to be addressing such a packed House at this time of the evening. I feel that the gen...
Helen Goodman | 440 c91 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman said that there were many areas with spare capacity. Does he have any sense of wh...
John Bercow | 440 c83 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with what my hon. Friend says about workplace nurseries. Would it not be sensible to conside...
David Evennett | 440 c81-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am pleased to participate in this important debate. It has been of a high calibre and there have b...
Mark Williams | 440 c84 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps it would be helpful to reiterate that the word in the Bill that is giving many of us a probl...
David Evennett | 440 c83-4 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a sensible point, as he usually does on these matters. We should consider tax i...
Madeleine Moon | 440 c79-81 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman will be pleased to know that that is exactly what the Genesis project provides. I...
David Evennett | 440 c85 (Link to this contribution)
Time will tell on that one. I am sure that this issue will be discussed further when the Bill goes i...
Madeleine Moon | 440 c84 (Link to this contribution)
I have listened to this argument throughout the afternoon, and I think that hon. Members are making ...
David Evennett | 440 c84 (Link to this contribution)
I totally agree with the hon. Gentleman that what is needed is structured play. We want our children...
John Bercow | 440 c85 (Link to this contribution)
This theme has percolated much of the debate. I confess that I am much more sanguine about the provi...
David Evennett | 440 c84-5 (Link to this contribution)
I very much hope that we are, but I have a niggling feeling that the Bill is proposing something mor...
John Bercow | 440 c58 (Link to this contribution)
So is Fleetwood.
Helen Goodman | 440 c65 (Link to this contribution)
Conservative Members have said repeatedly that they are in favour of choice, but against competition...
David Evennett | 440 c35 (Link to this contribution)
More homework to be done.
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 440 c40 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for giving way a second time. Given the concern that she expres...
Helen Goodman | 440 c97 (Link to this contribution)
Opposition Members, including the hon. Gentleman, have repeatedly said that they do not want targeti...
John Bercow | 440 c66 (Link to this contribution)
And my hon. Friend the Member for Reading, East (Mr. Wilson).
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 440 c38-9 (Link to this contribution)
I was going to make a reference to the hon. Gentleman—who has of course himself gone through educati...
Tim Loughton | 440 c31 (Link to this contribution)
The gap has got wider.
Peter Bone | 440 c25 (Link to this contribution)
A number of constituents, especially young mums, have told me that they feel under enormous pressure...
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