UK Parliament / Open data

Counter-Terrorism and Sentencing Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Tuesday, 26 January 2021, in the House of Lords.
Lords committee stage (first day). Clause 1 debated and agreed to. Schedule 1 agreed to. Clause 2 agreed to. Schedule 2, amendment 1 debated and agreed to. Schedule 2, as amended, agreed to. Clause 3 agreed to. Schedule 3, amendment 2 debated together with other amendments and agreed to. Amendment 3 agreed to. Schedule 3, as amended, agreed to. Clause 4, amendment 4 debated and withdrawn. Amendment 5 not moved. Clauses 4-20 and Schedule 4 agreed to. Clause 11, amendment 6 debated and withdrawn. Clauses 11-15 agreed to. Clause 16, amendment 7 debated and withdrawn. Clauses 16-22 and Schedules 5-6 agreed to. Clause 23, amendment 8, debated and agreed to. Amendment 9 agreed to. Clause 23 as amended, and clauses 24-26 and Schedules 7-8 agreed to. Amendment 10 debated and withdrawn. Clause 27, amendment 11, debated and withdrawn. Amendment 12 debated and withdrawn. Clause 27 debated and agreed to. Schedule 9 agreed to. Amendments 13-14 not moved. Clauses 28-31 and Schedule 10 agreed to. Amendment 15 debated and withdrawn. House resumed.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
809 cc1530-1598 
Session
2019-21
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Counter-terrorism and Sentencing Bill 2019-21. Brought from the Commons.
Wednesday, 22 July 2020
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2021-0138
Tuesday, 16 February 2021
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 cc1531-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in opening this debate, on the first day of Committee on this Bill, it might be sensibl...

Lord Naseby | 809 cc1532-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have a very different view from the opponent of the clause standing part. The UK Gove...


Show all contributions (107)
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 809 cc1534-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a privilege, as always, to follow the noble Lord. I respect his point of view and...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 809 c1535 (Link to this contribution)

I join noble Lords in welcoming the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson of Tredegar, to his place in the Hou...

Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay | 809 cc1535-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames, for reminding the Committee of ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 cc1537-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I should have opened my earlier speech by welcoming the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson of Tre...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 809 c1538 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group consisting of Amendment 1. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to s...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 c1538 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

1: Schedule 2, page 52, leave out lines 27 to 35

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 cc1538-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope that the Committee will allow me to take a moment to thank the noble Lords, Lord...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 809 c1539 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I understand from the Minister that this is a minor amendment. I too welcome him to his...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 c1539 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for the words of the noble Lord. To answer his two questions, I say that ...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 809 c1539 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 2. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 c1539 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

2: Schedule 3, page 53, line 41, leave out “Article...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 cc1540-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will also speak to Amendments 3, 17, 18, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 73, 74 and 75. I wil...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 809 cc1541-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have many reservations about the value of polygraph tests. They rely on measuring sev...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 809 c1542 (Link to this contribution)

Like the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, I too have considerable doubts about the reliabilit...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 cc1542-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for setting out their various points. I turn first to thos...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 c1543 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

3: Schedule 3, page 53, line 44, leave out “those A...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 809 cc1543-4 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 4. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 c1544 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

4: Clause 4, page 5, line 39, leave out “14” ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 cc1544-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clause 4 and my Amendments 4 and 5 concern the imposition of serious terrorism sentence...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 809 cc1545-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am always intrigued by the thought processes that must be brought into play in fixing...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 809 c1546 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, concluded his remarks by saying that the amend...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 809 cc1546-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a privilege to stand and answer points made by the noble Lords who have spoken. I...

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 809 c1548 (Link to this contribution)

I have received one request to speak after the Minister from the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee.

...
Baroness Hamwee | 809 c1548 (Link to this contribution)

The noble and learned Lord very briefly answered the questions on consultation from my noble frie...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 809 c1548 (Link to this contribution)

Will the noble Baroness confirm that she is referring to the probation service?

Baroness Hamwee | 809 c1548 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that there are levels and areas of probation. The question extends to all parts of t...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 809 c1548 (Link to this contribution)

If I may, I will respond to the noble Baroness’s question in writing.

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 cc1548-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, again I thank all who have spoken on these amendments, in particular the noble and lear...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 c1549 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

6: Clause 11, page 12, line 33, leave out “ex...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 cc1549-1550 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we spoke in the previous group about young offenders, but there is in Clause 4 a very l...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 809 c1550 (Link to this contribution)

[Inaudible]—is in relation to the necessity for the judge at trial to have full discretion in pas...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 809 cc1550-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lords, Lord Marks and Lord Thomas, have explained their thinking behind the a...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 cc1551-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames, explained, this amendment seeks to a...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 c1552 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to those who have spoken, and to the Minister for his response. However, ...

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 809 c1552 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group consisting of Amendment 7. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to s...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 809 cc1552-3 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Falconer of Thoroton

7: Clause 16, page 16, line 33, at end insert—

...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 809 c1553 (Link to this contribution)

Through this amendment, before the court considered whether to apply an extended sentenced of eig...

Lord Woolf | 809 c1553 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I adopt what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, said and will add a few words. ...

Lord Robathan | 809 cc1553-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Wolfson of Tredegar on what I think is his first ou...

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 809 c1554 (Link to this contribution)

I call the next speaker, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon. I think we are havi...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 809 cc1554-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have a slightly embarrassing confession to make. When I first decided to get involved...

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 809 c1555 (Link to this contribution)

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon, has withdrawn from this group, so I call the...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 c1555 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, about the benefits ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 cc1555-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, for introducing...

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 809 c1556 (Link to this contribution)

I have received one request to speak after the Minister from the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, so I c...

Lord Paddick | 809 c1556 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister for his comments. Yesterday, in debating the Domesti...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 c1556 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is a strong connection between the Domestic Abuse Bill and this Bill to the exten...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 809 cc1556-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to everyone who has participated in this short debate. I am very grateful...

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 809 c1558 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 8. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to ...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 809 c1558 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Stewart of Dirleton

8: Clause 23, page 20, line 24, at end insert “(or ...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 809 cc1558-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 9 in this group. Both are minor technical amendments to...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 809 c1559 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Minister’s words brought to mind many waterfalls that I know and love in Scotland, ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 809 c1559 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Stewart of Dirleton, for the clarity with which...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 809 c1559 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the purpose of the amendment was to reflect the approach adopted across England and Wal...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 809 c1559 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Stewart of Dirleton

9: Clause 23, page 21, line 2, leave out “or (6)”

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 809 c1560 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 10. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 809 c1560 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

10: After Clause 26, insert the following new Claus...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 809 cc1560-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, I declare an interest, as my wife is an adviser on the Prevent programme in the ...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 809 cc1562-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I give my strong support to both amendments in the group: that moved by the noble Lord,...

Baroness Henig | 809 c1563 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, has experienced computer problems, so we must move on to the nob...

Baroness Hamwee | 809 cc1563-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my name is to the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt. It would have been added to t...

Lord Faulks | 809 cc1564-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in welcoming my noble friend Lord Wolfson to his position. I c...

Baroness Henig | 809 c1565 (Link to this contribution)

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon, is not on the call, so I call the noble Baro...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 809 cc1565-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to say everything I said on Amendment 7: we need effective rehabilitation,...

Lord Robathan | 809 c1566 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I listened carefully to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, and agreed with a great deal of what...

Lord Woolf | 809 c1566 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in view of the speeches we have had from a number of noble Lords, there is nothing whic...

Lord Paddick | 809 cc1566-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson of Tredegar, to his first Bill. In my limited co...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 809 cc1567-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my Amendment 35 is in this group. I agreed with everything my noble friend Lord Hunt sa...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 809 cc1568-1572 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords for their amendments, which bring us to a very import...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 809 cc1572-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in what has been an important and ...

Baroness Henig | 809 c1573 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 11. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 809 c1573 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Falconer of Thoroton

11: Clause 27, page 24, line 5, at end insert—

...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 809 cc1573-4 (Link to this contribution)

These are three simple amendments dealing with the sentencing framework for England, Scotland and...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 809 c1574 (Link to this contribution)

The law has always distinguished between the adult and the young offender in many ways. Policy ha...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 cc1574-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, explained, Amendments 11, 13 ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 809 c1576 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson of Tredegar, for the careful way in which he dealt ...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 809 c1576 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group consisting of Amendment 12. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to ...

Baroness Prashar | 809 cc1576-7 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Prashar

12: Clause 27, leave out Clause 27 and insert the following...

Baroness Prashar | 809 cc1577-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the principle aim of the amendment is to ensure that the Parole Board retains its vital...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 809 cc1579-1580 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it was an honour to put my name to this amendment, moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Pr...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 809 c1580 (Link to this contribution)

We have been unable to reach the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, so we now move to the noble Lord, L...

Lord Faulks | 809 cc1580-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Bill has been broadly welcomed, in light of the Fishmongers’ Hall and Streatham att...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 809 c1581 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, that we are dealing with the determination of...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 cc1581-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment incorporates significant changes to Clause 27. In particular, as pointed...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 809 c1582 (Link to this contribution)

This is a significant debate. There are two circumstances that one has to consider. First, when o...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 cc1582-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in this amendment the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, whose experience in this area is pr...

Baroness Prashar | 809 c1584 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for a very open response and all other noble Lords who have spoken...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 809 c1584 (Link to this contribution)

Noble Lords should be aware that the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwe...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 cc1584-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as was said on the previous group, Clause 27 as it stands would mean that offenders ser...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 809 c1586 (Link to this contribution)

I call the next speaker, the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar. No? We will come back to her. Let us t...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 809 c1586 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have once again signed up to the amendments tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Prasha...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 809 c1586 (Link to this contribution)

We still cannot reach the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Naseby.

...
Lord Naseby | 809 cc1586-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Bill makes a welcome change to the sentencing, release and monitoring of terrorism ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 809 cc1587-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, by coincidence I am once again following the noble Lord, Lord Naseby. I would remind hi...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 809 cc1588-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have had interesting debates on both this and the previous group. In closing the pre...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 809 cc1589-1592 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Committee will appreciate that there is a significant overlap between this and the ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 809 cc1592-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have had two serious and thoughtful debates on the last two groups, and I am very gr...

Baroness Henig | 809 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group consisting of Amendment 15. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to ...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 809 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede

15: After Clause 31, insert the following new Cla...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 809 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be very brief on this amendment. The two previous groups have been groups of sub...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 809 cc1593-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson of Tredegar, to our House. It is brave of him to...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 809 c1594 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the town of Tredegar is noted for its town clock, which was erected, or at least its pl...

Lord Paddick | 809 cc1594-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise for any inconvenience caused by my noble friend Lady Hamwee and me not spea...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 809 cc1595-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment would require the Government to report on whether the removal of Parole ...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 809 cc1596-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate. First, turning to the...

Back to top