My Lords, it is a privilege to stand and answer points made by the noble Lords who have spoken. I first acknowledge their great experience and wisdom in the field, and the evident compassion that underpinned their observations to the Committee. I know that at least two of them have had the experience that I have of acting for a very young person charged with a crime of the greatest magnitude and severity. I can tell from the way in which their questions were framed that they are aware of the extreme sadness at the loss of potential that the advocate finds when acting for a person in such a position. I hope that noble Lords appreciate that I am fully aware, from the perspective of legislation, of the awkwardness and difficulties attendant upon arriving at an appropriate sentence for these most serious of crimes.
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As the noble Lord, Lord Marks, has explained, these amendments are intended to reduce the minimum custodial term that may be imposed on an offender aged between 18 and 20 sentenced to a serious terrorism sentence from 14 to 10 years, and to increase the minimum licence period that may be imposed in such a case from seven to 10 years. I respectfully disagree that such changes are appropriate or necessary. The Government are determined to ensure that those who commit serious acts of terror and put members of the public at risk of death serve sentences that properly reflect the harm that they cause. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, while headlines may be a consequence of the imposition of such a sentence, the sentence is selected not to generate such headlines.
The serious terrorism sentence, introduced by Clauses 4 and 5 of the Bill, will strengthen the current sentencing framework to ensure that terrorists, who put lives in danger, are given sentences that reflect the severity of their crimes. These amendments seek to draw a distinction in sentencing policy between those aged 21 and over and those aged between 18 and 20. While the new serious terrorism sentence is structured so as to distinguish those two groups, this is simply to reflect the existing sentencing structure.
At the commencement of his remarks, the noble Lord, Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames, accepted that this sentence will be imposed in the gravest of circumstances. To remind your Lordships, the sentence may be imposed only when a set of conditions is met. The offence must be serious enough to attract a life sentence but the court has decided not to impose one in this case. The offender must be found to be dangerous by the court. The offender must or ought to have been aware that the offending was very likely to result in or contribute to multiple deaths. When these conditions are met, it is right that a lengthy minimum term should be served in prison and in full, and an extension period should be served on licence. This should be consistent for anyone to whom the serious terrorism sentence applies.
We have carefully considered the right balance between the custodial terms and the licence period for this sentence, and are satisfied that 14 and seven years are appropriate, with the licence period being at least half the time that the offender would have served in custody. But it will be for the sentencing judge to determine this length, up to a maximum of 25 years, according to their judgment of the need to protect the public from the risk of serious harm that the offender poses.
The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, sought to know the extent of the consultation procedure that went into selecting 14 years as the appropriate period. It was not simply plucked out of thin air; it was arrived at as a result of deliberation on the nature of the crime, the extent of the offending and the need to protect the public. The noble Lord can be satisfied, if he wishes for further elucidation of the identity of persons with whom consultation took place, that I will write to him to explain the nature of the consultation process or the thinking that underpinned the sentence.
I echo the formulation of the noble Lord, Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames, that this is a rebalancing. However, the Government are content that the current balance is correct.
The noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede, sought to know about the assessment that has been carried out on the likelihood of reform of persons on whom sentences of this sort are imposed. He asked about the number of young offenders in custody in relation to these matters and sought examples of situations when lengthy custodial sentences have led to reform. I propose to touch on these matters on other amendments. By way of advertisement of what I will be saying, I can tell the Committee that, while data on these matters is available, is it difficult, given the small quantity of data and the evolving understanding of matters, to use it precisely to arrive at conclusions. I hope that that answers the noble Lord’s point, albeit it is necessarily doing so by reference to things that will be said on forthcoming amendments.
I believe that these measures are necessary and appropriate. I therefore urge the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.