UK Parliament / Open data

Forensic Science Regulator and Biometrics Strategy Bill

Debate on bills on Friday, 25 September 2020, in the House of Commons, led by Darren Jones. The answering member was Kit Malthouse.
Second reading. Agreed to on question. Bill committed to a Public Bill Committee.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
680 cc1245-1309 
Session
2019-21
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Second reading
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Forensic Science Regulator and Biometrics Strategy Bill 2019-21
Wednesday, 5 February 2020
Bills
House of Commons
Forensic Science Regulator Bill 2019-21
Wednesday, 10 March 2021
Research briefings
Proceeding contributions
Darren Jones | 680 cc1245-7 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Further to the Minister’s point of ...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1246 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to serve with the hon. Gentleman on the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy...


Show all contributions (127)
Darren Jones | 680 cc1246-8 (Link to this contribution)

I share the hon. Gentleman’s delight at serving together on the Business, Energy and Industrial S...

Kevin Hollinrake | 680 c1248 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on bringing forward the Bill, which I understand has a fair cha...

Darren Jones | 680 c1248 (Link to this contribution)

I think that is an important enforcement question. Of course, this has been one of the bedrocks o...

Kevin Hollinrake | 680 c1248 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, and I do not object to the clause. I welcome the fact that...

Darren Jones | 680 cc1248-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is not for me to conclude on that issue in debate on a private Member’s Bill. My personal view...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1249 (Link to this contribution)

Frequently, regulators fall back on a requirement for statutory enforcement powers, citing that t...

Darren Jones | 680 c1249 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, and the repeated conclusion, not just from the regulator but the other officials and bodies ...

Christopher Chope | 680 c1250 (Link to this contribution)

Following up on that point, is it right that the regulator already has problems with codes of pra...

Darren Jones | 680 c1250 (Link to this contribution)

The regulator has been able to introduce codes of practice, but where they have not been followed...

Chris Green | 680 c1251 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman also consider a problem in the digital sphere if there is no effective ma...

Darren Jones | 680 cc1251-2 (Link to this contribution)

I could not agree more with the hon. Gentleman. I am pleased to see him in the Chamber today, giv...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1252 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to acknowledge the hon. Gentleman’s strong point that technology is moving at great speed ...

Darren Jones | 680 cc1252-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to hear that from the Minister. I confess that I did not notice that in his party’s ...

Christopher Chope | 680 c1253 (Link to this contribution)

What a pleasure it is to follow the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Darren Jones), whom I con...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1253 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is raising an important point, but there are two things to say. Part of the compli...

Christopher Chope | 680 c1254 (Link to this contribution)

I am fascinated by my hon. Friend’s response. The chief constable of Dorset is the lead chief con...

Chris Green | 680 c1254 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend share my concern that spending on the forensics sector decreased, from memory...

Christopher Chope | 680 c1254 (Link to this contribution)

Obviously police forces face constraints, but ensuring that the best quality forensic evidence is...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1254 (Link to this contribution)

I think my hon. Friend has missed his calling: his forensic examination of these documents is to ...

Lindsay Hoyle | 680 c1255 (Link to this contribution)

Just to say the hon. Gentleman’s calling is Friday.

Christopher Chope | 680 c1255 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend, and I look forward to hearing the outcome of his further en...

Rupa Huq | 680 cc1255-6 (Link to this contribution)

What a pleasure it is to be called so unexpectedly early in this debate. Obviously your algorithm...

Chris Green | 680 c1256 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady commented on the free market, but does she not think that, with DNA profiling and f...

Rupa Huq | 680 c1256 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is right: we need a mixed-economy approach. Yes, we can allow private firms—I ...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1256 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady refers to the history of forensics and fingerprinting. I want to share a small anec...

Rupa Huq | 680 c1256 (Link to this contribution)

Goodness me, we live and learn, and we learn a new thing every day. What a gory story. It is sad ...

Lindsay Hoyle | 680 c1256 (Link to this contribution)

I think we will leave that one there.

Rupa Huq | 680 cc1256-7 (Link to this contribution)

Unfortunately, the reality of Britain’s forensic services is far removed from the glamour of “NCI...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1257 (Link to this contribution)

Although the hon. Lady is right that the Forensic Science Service was closed, and that part of th...

Lindsay Hoyle | 680 c1257 (Link to this contribution)

Just for the record, the FSS provided a very good service. The labs at Chorley were fantastic.

Rupa Huq | 680 cc1257-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister and to you, Mr Speaker, for pointing out what used to go on in the ...

Chris Green | 680 cc1258-1260 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Darren Jones) on bringing forward such an ...

Rupa Huq | 680 c1260 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the history lesson. I accept that there was some tinkering under t...

Chris Green | 680 cc1260-3 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady makes a fair point. When a direction of travel is set, it is sometimes difficult to...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1263 (Link to this contribution)

I have been listening with interest as my hon. Friend has explained an ever-expanding list of are...

Chris Green | 680 c1263 (Link to this contribution)

I think that point reflects on what the hon. Member for Bristol North West said about this being ...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1263 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an extremely important point, and nowhere is it more pertinent than in t...

Chris Green | 680 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the concerns that my hon. Friend highlights. When the system looks in one way or ano...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

I am cautious about trying to have a dialogue with the Minister through my hon. Friend while he m...

Chris Green | 680 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate my hon. Friend’s concerns, but I would be cautious about going down that route. Incr...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

I, too, am anxious not to engage in ping-pong with my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfo...

Chris Green | 680 cc1264-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for his message.

Let me finish this point about the future tech. We ...

Darren Jones | 680 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

I share the hon. Gentleman’s enthusiasm for debating the opportunities and risks of data and tech...

Chris Green | 680 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the hon. Gentleman, but it is sometimes tempting to speculate more widely. I appreci...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 680 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

Order. For clarification, I have allowed the hon. Gentleman to stray slightly beyond the realms o...

Chris Green | 680 cc1265-6 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will pick up the point that was made about public perception, ...

Julie Marson | 680 c1266 (Link to this contribution)

The whole question of confidence makes me think of rape victims, for example. The rate of convict...

Chris Green | 680 c1266 (Link to this contribution)

I agree entirely; my hon. Friend makes an important point. This legislation, and our having this ...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1266 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is outlining the expanding scope of the work that will be undertaken. I take the p...

Chris Green | 680 c1267 (Link to this contribution)

It is important that we set the direction of travel. We need to take this incredibly important st...

Brendan Clarke-Smith | 680 c1267 (Link to this contribution)

On that point, there has been some talk from smaller providers who are concerned at the cost of a...

Chris Green | 680 cc1267-8 (Link to this contribution)

I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend. That reinforces the point that there are workstreams ...

Wes Streeting | 680 cc1268-9 (Link to this contribution)

In a spirit of cross-party consensus, it is a pleasure to follow the speech of the hon. Member fo...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1269 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is exactly right. With regard to digital forensics, I remind him of the case o...

Wes Streeting | 680 c1269 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the Minister for that intervention because it underlines the point I am mak...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1269 (Link to this contribution)

I just want to be clear that in the circumstances of the case I referred to, the person accused o...

Wes Streeting | 680 cc1269-1270 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely understand. I was referring to victims whose crimes are not punished, but it is impo...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1270 (Link to this contribution)

I know the hon. Gentleman is not advocating a blank cheque for policing and recognises that there...

Wes Streeting | 680 c1270 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister makes a very good financial case for investing in forensics. It will lead not only t...

Julie Marson | 680 c1270 (Link to this contribution)

I just want to echo in a practical way what the Minister says. As a magistrate, so many times I h...

Wes Streeting | 680 c1270 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that useful insight into the practical consequences of the system not working c...

Chris Green | 680 c1271 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Julie Marson) makes an interesting point, f...

Wes Streeting | 680 c1271 (Link to this contribution)

That is so important for victims. Most people would not like the experience of going before a cou...

Danny Kruger | 680 c1271 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman unpack that a little? We have heard that one problem at the moment is tha...

Wes Streeting | 680 cc1271-2 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West made the point about the risk of the forensics m...

Gareth Davies | 680 cc1272-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting). I congratulate...

John Lamont | 680 cc1273-4 (Link to this contribution)

It is an honour to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Gareth Davies), wh...

Darren Jones | 680 c1274 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his contribution today and for raising these important questions. ...

John Lamont | 680 cc1274-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that clarification. I suppose my point was more about compliance notices being ...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1276 (Link to this contribution)

Just to confirm, should the House consent to the Bill’s progress, we intend to table an amendment...

John Lamont | 680 c1276 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for that clarification.

I welcome the fact that there are no ...

Jane Hunt | 680 cc1276-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is a delight to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John ...

Scott Mann | 680 cc1278-1280 (Link to this contribution)

First, I commend the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Darren Jones) for bringing forward the B...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1280 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a compelling speech and he is absolutely right to point out the vital im...

Scott Mann | 680 cc1280-3 (Link to this contribution)

As always, I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s knowledge on this subject. He shares my passion for...

Craig Williams | 680 c1282 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Scott Mann), and I...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 680 c1282 (Link to this contribution)

As matter of clarification, specifically because this is only the second day we have had private ...

Craig Williams | 680 c1284 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you for that clarification, Madam Deputy Speaker. That enables me to talk on so many more s...

Kevin Hollinrake | 680 c1284 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend mentioned that the regulator is keen on the Bill. Should we not be a little concer...

Craig Williams | 680 c1284 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is correct. I see this more as the exception than the rule. I alluded earlier to t...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1284 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that issue. He is quite right. I point out the critic...

Craig Williams | 680 c1285 (Link to this contribution)

It is extremely rewarding for my constituents who deal with that day in, day out to see the scale...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1285 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right that no hon. Member would want to give any solace to those evil people, a...

Craig Williams | 680 c1285 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend brings a sobering note to the debate. Clearly, we need the powers and the standard...

Kit Malthouse | 680 cc1285-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making, in a charming and agrarian way, a very important poin...

Craig Williams | 680 c1286 (Link to this contribution)

I echo the Minister’s words: there is no crime too small or too large in this country that will n...

Julie Marson | 680 cc1286-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams). ...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1288 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is giving a fascinating tour de force on the history of forensics. She is quite ri...

Julie Marson | 680 cc1288-9 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for relaying that story. We talk about “CSI” and so on, but it goes to pro...

Brendan Clarke-Smith | 680 cc1289-1290 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Julie Marson). I...

Chris Green | 680 c1290 (Link to this contribution)

Given recent events—some of the providers have failed—does my hon. Friend agree that having more ...

Brendan Clarke-Smith | 680 cc1290-1 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely spot on in his analysis. One of the joys of the free market and allo...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1291 (Link to this contribution)

You have caught me, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 680 c1291 (Link to this contribution)

To allow the hon. Gentleman time to catch his breath, I will just say that I think the hon. Membe...

Richard Fuller | 680 cc1291-2 (Link to this contribution)

Let me assure you, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I shall not be following that example. On the issue...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1292 (Link to this contribution)

I would not go quite as far as saying it is an obsession, but there is certainly an interest in t...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1292 (Link to this contribution)

I see that my hon. Friend is prepared to intervene to reassure me.

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1292 (Link to this contribution)

I am more than happy to give my hon. Friend that reassurance. I come, I guess, from the point of ...

Richard Fuller | 680 cc1292-4 (Link to this contribution)

How impressive it is to hear a Minister from the Front Bench quote so directly from the classics!...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1294 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps the Minister has watched all of them and can advise us.

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1294 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the issue that the hon. Gentleman is raising, but he surely cannot believe that faul...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1294 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister makes some very sensible points in rejoinder. Let me see if I cannot unpick some of ...

Darren Jones | 680 c1295 (Link to this contribution)

To give the hon. Gentleman a little comfort, the case that he makes will in fact be resolved by t...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1295 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the Minister and then respond to both hon. Members.

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1295 (Link to this contribution)

To amplify that point, my hon. Friend and I may be drawing the line in a different place, but pre...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1295 (Link to this contribution)

If I may, I will make some progress and then give way.

Let me try to share a little bit mor...

Chris Green | 680 c1296 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a really important point about the quality of evidence and expertise. That w...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1296 (Link to this contribution)

If I may say, that contribution from my hon. Friend has been one of the most valuable. He talked ...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1296 (Link to this contribution)

I hesitate to intervene on my hon. Friend, but I think that in the early days of the Cameron Gove...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1296 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed, he reduced it to the 413 I just mentioned. Heaven knows what it was before. It is evident...

Kevin Hollinrake | 680 c1296 (Link to this contribution)

The debate is not about the wish to raise standards—we all want to raise standards—but the method...

Richard Fuller | 680 c1297 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is very knowledgeable about those matters and he cites one of what I think may be ...

Shaun Bailey | 680 cc1297-9 (Link to this contribution)

I start my comments by paying tribute to police officer who we lost last night. It is always a tr...

Kit Malthouse | 680 c1299 (Link to this contribution)

I just want to put on the record that the overall spend on forensics across policing is actually ...

Shaun Bailey | 680 cc1299-1300 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for that clarification, which is helpful to the line that I am trying to p...

Selaine Saxby | 680 cc1300-2 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey). Like ...

Bambos Charalambous | 680 cc1302-5 (Link to this contribution)

Before I begin, on behalf of the Opposition, I express my deepest condolences to the officer who ...

Kit Malthouse | 680 cc1304-9 (Link to this contribution)

I thank hon. Members for their words of condolence, sorrow and support for the awful crime that w...

Darren Jones | 680 c1309 (Link to this contribution)

With the leave of the House, I thank the many hon. Members for their contributions today. We have...

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