UK Parliament / Open data

Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill

Debate on bills and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Tuesday, 9 December 2014, in the House of Commons, led by Diana Johnson. The answering member was James Brokenshire.
Committee stage first day. Amendment to clause 12, discussed with clauses 12 to 16 stand part, withdrawn. Clauses 12 to 16 agreed to. Amendment to clause 17, discussed with clause 17 stand part, and new clauses 1 and 2, withdrawn. Clause 17 agreed to. Clauses 18 to 20, and schedule 2 agreed to.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
589 cc783-838 
Session
2014-15
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Counter-terrorism and human rights.
Wednesday, 26 November 2014
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill 2014-15
Wednesday, 26 November 2014
Bills
House of Commons
Legislative scrutiny: Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill.
Wednesday, 3 December 2014
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill.
Wednesday, 3 December 2014
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Show all related items (5)
Deposited Paper DEP2014-1595
Tuesday, 9 December 2014
Deposited papers
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Diana Johnson | 589 c784 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 4, on page 8, line 11, leave out subsection (3).

This would remove ...

Baroness Primarolo | 589 c784 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clauses 12 and 13 stand part.

...

Show all contributions (113)
Diana Johnson | 589 cc784-5 (Link to this contribution)

Part 2 of the Bill relates to terrorism prevention and investigation measures. This grouping incl...

Caroline Lucas | 589 c785 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady recognise that TPIMs have never led to a terrorism-related prosecution and tha...

Diana Johnson | 589 cc785-9 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Lady will bear with me, I will move on to that point shortly, because one of the clai...

Diana Johnson | 589 cc790-2 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is shaking his head. It would be interesting to hear his views about the resources a...

Ian Swales | 589 c792 (Link to this contribution)

I am certainly not an expert on this area, but is the shadow Minister suggesting that an organisa...

Diana Johnson | 589 cc792-3 (Link to this contribution)

That is the very question I am asking. The Disclosure and Barring Service obviously keeps records...

Caroline Lucas | 589 cc793-4 (Link to this contribution)

I will say only a few words, but I want to explain why I will not support amendment 4.

My o...

Pete Wishart | 589 cc794-5 (Link to this contribution)

These are terrible amendments. They are so sadly and typically new Labour. The control order regi...

Khalid Mahmood | 589 c795 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman have an alternative proposal to put to the Committee?

Pete Wishart | 589 c795 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman hits the nail on the head. These measures are counter-productive in trying to ...

Diana Johnson | 589 c795 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman. He should have listened to what I said, which was...

Pete Wishart | 589 cc795-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am a bit more satisfied, but on the face of it, the amendments do call for further restrictions...

Ian Swales | 589 c796 (Link to this contribution)

I am enjoying the hon. Gentleman’s speech. Does he remember that the previous Government introduc...

Pete Wishart | 589 c796 (Link to this contribution)

I think I took part in practically all the debates in this House on these issues—indeed, the hon....

Pete Wishart | 589 c796 (Link to this contribution)

I see by his response that he is not. I hope the amendments are rejected and that in future we do...

George Howarth | 589 cc796-7 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to take slight issue with the hon. Members for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) a...

George Howarth | 589 c797 (Link to this contribution)

There is an argument against that, which I suspect the hon. Lady is about to make, but an inescap...

Caroline Lucas | 589 c797 (Link to this contribution)

No one is suggesting that the issue is black and white. There are shades of grey and balances of ...

George Howarth | 589 c797 (Link to this contribution)

I am interested in the hon. Lady’s intervention. Later in the proceedings we will discuss interce...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc797-9 (Link to this contribution)

The contribution by the right hon. Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth), a member of the Intelligence...

Caroline Lucas | 589 c798 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I am pre-empting the Minister, but I wanted to press him on clause 13. He talks about saf...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc798-800 (Link to this contribution)

It is a question of the seriousness of the measures. We recognise, because of the changes we are ...

Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 589 c800 (Link to this contribution)

I intervene on my hon. Friend as someone who supported the original move from control orders to T...

Lindsay Hoyle | 589 c800 (Link to this contribution)

Order. An intervention is meant to be short. It is not meant to be a speech. If the right hon. an...

Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 589 c800 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise, Mr Hoyle. What exactly has happened to give rise to the need to bring back what I th...

James Brokenshire | 589 c800 (Link to this contribution)

In large measure, it has been the changing nature of the threat picture. My right hon. and learne...

Pete Wishart | 589 c800 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), with his years of disting...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc800-1 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Gentleman is not able to recognise the change in the nature of the threat and the evo...

John McDonnell | 589 c801 (Link to this contribution)

I came somewhat late to the debate—for which I apologise—so I may have missed this. There is an i...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc802-3 (Link to this contribution)

This is intended to be a very focused power on the basis—rightly, as we have discussed—that our s...

Diana Johnson | 589 c803 (Link to this contribution)

Just to be clear: if somebody is subject to a TPIM order, work that is voluntary and is not in a ...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc803-4 (Link to this contribution)

That is the very point; we have that ability from the work and studies measure to be able to cont...

Diana Johnson | 589 c804 (Link to this contribution)

I do not recall the Minister responding to my point about families and whether a relocation of an...

James Brokenshire | 589 c804 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, families could live in the accommodation to which the TPIM subject has been relocated. In th...

Diana Johnson | 589 c804 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for responding to the many lengthy questions I put to him. We have ...

Diana Johnson | 589 cc804-5 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 5, page 11, line 3, at end insert—

(iii) is beyond that which is ne...

John Bercow | 589 c805 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clause 17 stand part.

New c...

Diana Johnson | 589 c806 (Link to this contribution)

I shall speak to new clause 2 standing in my name and those of my right hon. and hon. Friends. It...

Julian Smith | 589 c806 (Link to this contribution)

Will the shadow Minister explain a bit more of her party’s thoughts on making further changes in ...

Diana Johnson | 589 c807 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Gentleman will be little patient, I shall move on to that subject in a few moments.

Lord Beith | 589 c807 (Link to this contribution)

How can the hon. Lady say that my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister did not see the nee...

Diana Johnson | 589 c807 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman has made his point, and we will obviously disagree on what I have just s...

Diana Johnson | 589 c807 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way, but, as I have said, I do want to get on to the substantive issues.

Julian Smith | 589 c807 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the shadow Minister for giving way. Will she just clarify briefly the further ca...

Diana Johnson | 589 cc807-8 (Link to this contribution)

What I will come on to say about some of the concerns we have might help the hon. Gentleman, but ...

Julian Smith | 589 c808 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady talks about web logs. Will she clarify the Opposition’s long-term position on that ...

Diana Johnson | 589 cc808-810 (Link to this contribution)

I will just reiterate that we are dealing with clause 17, and we are very mindful that we want to...

Lord Beith | 589 c810 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady has produced a formidable list of questions, but I only have one for her, on amendm...

Diana Johnson | 589 cc810-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s observations on amendment 5. As with the previous gr...

Mark Field | 589 c812 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady referred to journalists, but how broadly would she or her colleagues define “journa...

Diana Johnson | 589 c812 (Link to this contribution)

I have the disadvantage of speaking first on this group of amendments, and obviously, this is not...

Lord Beith | 589 c812 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) is right to seek clarification to sa...

Lord Beith | 589 c813 (Link to this contribution)

Goodness me, I have barely started, but I will give way.

Julian Smith | 589 c813 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that this provision does not keep up with the technology, and tha...

Lord Beith | 589 c813 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has a strange desire, which he has expressed during a previous speech, to exte...

Mark Field | 589 c813 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is making a perfectly valid point. In the midst of the more hyperbolic p...

Lord Beith | 589 cc813-4 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s observation, which points to part of the purpose of the process...

George Howarth | 589 cc814-5 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to begin by providing some context. The Intelligence and Security Committee’s report in Fe...

Julian Smith | 589 c815 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman makes a powerful case for us to go further. What would he do now? He has...

George Howarth | 589 c815 (Link to this contribution)

Had the hon. Gentleman waited a while longer, I was about to say what more could be done. It is r...

Mark Field | 589 c815 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Gentleman also accept that the increased knowledge of the general public and—...

George Howarth | 589 c816 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is quite right and he, like me, is a member of the Intelligence and Security C...

Mark Field | 589 c816 (Link to this contribution)

Is the right hon. Gentleman happy for me to put it on the record that it is also the case that ma...

George Howarth | 589 cc816-7 (Link to this contribution)

As always, the hon. Gentleman makes a good point. Sometimes the difficulty is that the amount of ...

George Howarth | 589 c817 (Link to this contribution)

I look forward to hearing what my hon. Friend has to say. I acknowledge that he and his supporter...

John McDonnell | 589 c817 (Link to this contribution)

Everyone else who has spoken so far seems to have explained my amendments, and I am grateful to t...

Lord Beith | 589 c818 (Link to this contribution)

It might be better expressed as “protection for sources”, because the primary concern is not to g...

John McDonnell | 589 c818 (Link to this contribution)

Exactly. I was not arguing for preferential status for journalists—God forbid that I do that here...

Julian Smith | 589 c818 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

John McDonnell | 589 c818 (Link to this contribution)

I hope the hon. Gentleman is not going to ask me a detailed question about my long-term future po...

Julian Smith | 589 c818 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that a mechanism is already in place, because David Anderson is...

John McDonnell | 589 c819 (Link to this contribution)

That is a valid point. I tabled the amendments to say that there is a sense of urgency. Something...

James Brokenshire | 589 c819 (Link to this contribution)

I intend to address that point specifically when I respond to the debate, which I hope will be he...

John McDonnell | 589 cc819-820 (Link to this contribution)

I am never sure what it means when a Minister says that he is about to be helpful. He was helpful...

Mark Field | 589 c820 (Link to this contribution)

I very much agree that we should be proud of the traditions of a free press in this country. The ...

John McDonnell | 589 c821 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend the Member for Knowsley says that my local parish priest rather optimistical...

Lord Beith | 589 c821 (Link to this contribution)

It is important that we distinguish what we are talking about here—the protection of the conversa...

John McDonnell | 589 c821 (Link to this contribution)

Let me give one example of where RIPA was used. The case of Kirsty Green was in the evidence pres...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc821-2 (Link to this contribution)

We have had an interesting and informative debate focusing on the broader aspects of the ability ...

Mark Field | 589 c822 (Link to this contribution)

Without giving a preview of anything in the Committee report, I think it is important, for the be...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc822-3 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the comments of my hon. Friend. As a member of the Intelligence and Security Committ...

Bob Stewart | 589 c823 (Link to this contribution)

Just a question to the Minister—does this also apply to medical in confidence communication betwe...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc823-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure that my hon. Friend would ever be out to lunch, particularly at 3.26 in the afterno...

George Howarth | 589 c824 (Link to this contribution)

I have a suggestion. Where a situation is changing rapidly, such issues are sometimes dealt with ...

James Brokenshire | 589 c824 (Link to this contribution)

I recognise that in certain circumstances that might be appropriate, but the challenge in this ca...

Julian Smith | 589 c825 (Link to this contribution)

It will be almost two years since the Liberal Democrats and one or two other Members scuppered th...

James Brokenshire | 589 c825 (Link to this contribution)

This issue is not going away, and we need to make further changes. I can see the eroding capabili...

Mark Field | 589 c825 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend accept that another issue, which was skilfully outlined by the hon. Member fo...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc825-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that that issue will be presented in representations made to David Anderson as part of ...

John McDonnell | 589 c827 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for launching the consultation on the code of practice. It is impor...

James Brokenshire | 589 c827 (Link to this contribution)

I am constrained in what I can say because of the legal action that the hon. Gentleman highlights...

Diana Johnson | 589 c827 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for going through all the questions that I posed. On the basis of what he ha...

David Amess | 589 c830 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clause 19 stand part.

Claus...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc830-1 (Link to this contribution)

Part 4 and schedule 2 deal with aviation, maritime and rail security. For the benefit of the Comm...

Bob Stewart | 589 c831 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has not mentioned this so far, although I assume he will come to it, but is it corre...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc831-2 (Link to this contribution)

As my hon. Friend will realise, provisions in the Bill overlap with other issues and provisions. ...

Julian Smith | 589 c832 (Link to this contribution)

We are all aware that Eurotunnel is expanding its services, with more train services going to the...

James Brokenshire | 589 c832 (Link to this contribution)

Under existing regulations and requirements, existing Eurostar and freight services through the c...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 589 cc832-4 (Link to this contribution)

There has been a change on the Opposition Front Bench, while the Minister has had to continue, bu...

Khalid Mahmood | 589 cc834-5 (Link to this contribution)

While endorsing everything my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) has said and in ...

Bob Stewart | 589 c835 (Link to this contribution)

In the old days, when I was working with the security services in Northern Ireland, it used to be...

Khalid Mahmood | 589 c835 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is far more informed on these matters than I am, and I certainly would not arg...

James Brokenshire | 589 cc836-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the warm welcome given to these provisions from all parts of the House this aft...

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